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Old 05-17-2007, 08:20 AM   #766
GSL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 650x
I hope while you were buying the new skid plate for the 650X, you bought one for the KTM 250. (sorry, had to say it) Anyway, what did you have to do to fix the KTM?
Yep, got a new skidplate for the KTM, but the replacement case/cover is still on backorder. I was dirtbikeless until last Thursday, when my X was returned to its rightfull owner. I just can't get into the idea of riding trails on Jen's little KX... I'd be dragging knees, on both sides at once...
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Old 05-17-2007, 01:44 PM   #767
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Considerations...

..about that airbox mod I described a few pages back.

A guy on a german reminded me there is such a thing as open-loop and closed-loop on the injection system. Goes like this. When the bike is cruising at a steady speed it's using the lambada sensor, among many other, to keep the air-fuel ratio at the desired level (think control engineering).

However, there are situations where the signal from the lambada sensor are being disregarded. Under accelleration for instance. Then the computer reads from a table how much fuel has to be injected accoding to the throttle position, air temperature, coolant temperature etc. And the air fuel ratio is left alone. The control loop is open. It has to be rich anyway under accelleration otherwise there woulnd't be any.

Another situation where the injection might switch to open loop is at high speeds in the open. On the highway, desert etc. 80-90 mph plus. Or 60+ in the sand, who knows. Once the guy told me this I reminded my F650 GS Dakar. This bike had an open exhaust, K&N and a cut snorkel. it always ran fine, except for prolonged highway stints. Then it would always run at coolant temperatures at or over 100 degrees. Which is strange on the ighway where there is plenty enough wind to cool the radiator. As soon as would leave the highway the engine temperature would cool down 15-20 degrees within a few kilometers. This guy warned for this exact situation.

Hmmmm :-((

I'm not a highway hero, but I do take te occasional stretch to get somewhere. This is still a brand new bike and I have no way yet to measure the exhaust gasses (catalytic converter screws up the results). I'm going to wait till Techlusion or Rapidbike come with a solution. But this mod sure has potential.

Anyway. My seat of the pants dyno found the 14 tooth front sprocket a better improvement then the airfilter mod. The bike is lively, still runs an indicated 155 km/h (96 mph), and some second gear corners can now be done in third as well.

Max
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Old 05-17-2007, 01:57 PM   #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Kool
..about that airbox mod I described a few pages back.

A guy on a german reminded me there is such a thing as open-loop and closed-loop on the injection system. Goes like this. When the bike is cruising at a steady speed it's using the lambada sensor, among many other, to keep the air-fuel ratio at the desired level (think control engineering).

However, there are situations where the signal from the lambada sensor are being disregarded. Under accelleration for instance. Then the computer reads from a table how much fuel has to be injected accoding to the throttle position, air temperature, coolant temperature etc. And the air fuel ratio is left alone. The control loop is open. It has to be rich anyway under accelleration otherwise there woulnd't be any.

Another situation where the injection might switch to open loop is at high speeds in the open. On the highway, desert etc. 80-90 mph plus. Or 60+ in the sand, who knows. Once the guy told me this I reminded my F650 GS Dakar. This bike had an open exhaust, K&N and a cut snorkel. it always ran fine, except for prolonged highway stints. Then it would always run at coolant temperatures at or over 100 degrees. Which is strange on the ighway where there is plenty enough wind to cool the radiator. As soon as would leave the highway the engine temperature would cool down 15-20 degrees within a few kilometers. This guy warned for this exact situation.

Hmmmm :-((

I'm not a highway hero, but I do take te occasional stretch to get somewhere. This is still a brand new bike and I have no way yet to measure the exhaust gasses (catalytic converter screws up the results). I'm going to wait till Techlusion or Rapidbike come with a solution. But this mod sure has potential.

Anyway. My seat of the pants dyno found the 14 tooth front sprocket a better improvement then the airfilter mod. The bike is lively, still runs an indicated 155 km/h (96 mph), and some second gear corners can now be done in third as well.

Max
Sweet, nice write up Mr Kool. I'm going to tear into my X when I can walk again So the Stock F650 sprocket works fine eh?
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Old 05-17-2007, 02:06 PM   #769
Max Kool
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Can walk again? What happened? Did I miss a ride report?

And yes, the front sprockets of the F and the G are equal. Only difference is a bolt on the G to secure the sprocket on the shaft instead of a nut. But that is apparently to make room to get the sprocket off the shaft inside the frame.

Get well my friend!
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Old 05-17-2007, 02:20 PM   #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Kool
Can walk again? What happened? Did I miss a ride report?
I'm having some strange pinched nerve problem in my back. I'm rocking the super heavy meds right now trying to get better. I've got the new wheels in the garage and I cant ride it
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:35 PM   #771
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Picking mine up tomorrow!

then ordering the new Remus can for it and the Toruatech tank whenever they release it.
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:44 PM   #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetgrass
Picking mine up tomorrow!

then ordering the new Remus can for it and the Toruatech tank whenever they release it.
You are going to love it!

Are you going to order the Remus FreeRide or Revolution can?
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Old 05-17-2007, 08:02 PM   #773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankshaft
I'm having some strange pinched nerve problem in my back. I'm rocking the super heavy meds right now trying to get better. I've got the new wheels in the garage and I cant ride it
I hear ya buddy, I have a practically new 06 TE510 ( just over a hundred miles) all farkled up in the garage & I can't ride it yet , hopefully soon, unfortunately my TAT dreams went tits up, being a cripple sux, Hope you heal up quick
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Old 05-18-2007, 12:28 AM   #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number9
I think of having the X-Co with a set of TKC'c, heavy duty bash plate of some kind (TT?), larger fuel tank/capacity, some sort of wind screen, and some add-on luggage (soft or hard either way). Kind of like a mini-Wee-strom, but lighter and more dirt worthy.
I've been thinking about it and I think you could make the XCountry better than the XChallenge, let me state some reasons:

First the suspension: The XCountry has the same forks as the XChallenge, but it's just about a 1" shorter travel, but that's a easy fix. But the rear shock on the XCountry is a better setup, what I mean is that you can upgrade it allot easier (I'm not sure if you can put a coil/oil shock on the XChallenge you might be able too???) But IMO a coil/oil shock is a better setup then the air damper (at least for now).

Second the ergos: Yes you can put the XCountry seat on the XChallenge but you also have to change all the shrouding too. IMO it's better to add then to remove and then add. We all know the XChallenge seat is a dirtbike seat and if you wanted to go for long stints then your best off with the XCountry seat, which brings me to the fuel.

Third the fuel: Yes they both have the same size tank and yes the XChallenge has a tank you can get from TT, but that tank has the wings that sticks out pretty far and if you fell I would worry about breaking it and losing all that precious fuel. I think they could make a better tank for the XCountry. I have already thought about a welded aluminum tank that could take place of the faux tank and double as the air intake shroud, you could also make that tank taller and wider then the faux tank.

I don't want people to think I'm dissing on the XChallenge, I love the XChallenge but to make it work for me and some other you would have to do more to it then just getting the XCountry and adding some things.

oh yeah and the XCountry is cheaper too ;)

Put on some knobbier tires, a different/or second front fender, a Öhlins rear shock, another tank, wind screen or front faring, a beefier skid plate, and some panniers or bags and your set, you have all the dirtbike ability but also have the touring aspect too.

I dunno maybe I'm just crazy
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Old 05-18-2007, 06:11 AM   #775
crankshaft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffus
I hear ya buddy, I have a practically new 06 TE510 ( just over a hundred miles) all farkled up in the garage & I can't ride it yet , hopefully soon, unfortunately my TAT dreams went tits up, being a cripple sux, Hope you heal up quick
Damn, I was just at Happy Jacks thursday night and I forgot all about you.
Next time I go, I'll PM you for sure!
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Old 05-18-2007, 06:19 AM   #776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XCountryChallengeO_o
But the rear shock on the XCountry is a better setup, what I mean is that you can upgrade it allot easier (I'm not sure if you can put a coil/oil shock on the XChallenge you might be able too???) But IMO a coil/oil shock is a better setup then the air damper (at least for now).
Just an FYI...

The TT catalogue lists an Öhlins shock replacement on page 398 for the X-Challenge and the X-Moto, but not the X-Country.

FWIW
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Old 05-18-2007, 06:34 AM   #777
Ruffus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankshaft
Damn, I was just at Happy Jacks thursday night and I forgot all about you.
Next time I go, I'll PM you for sure!
No problem buddy, hopefully I'll be meetin you there san's crutches when the next time comes
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Old 05-18-2007, 06:59 AM   #778
DOUBLE-O G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XCountryChallengeO_o
I think you could make the XCountry better than the XChallenge...

...oh yeah and the XCountry is cheaper too ;) ...

...I dunno maybe I'm just crazy
That's why I bought the X Country! It's a much better bike all around. And no, you're not crazy...
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:13 AM   #779
Some Dude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XCountryChallengeO_o
I've been thinking about it and I think you could make the XCountry better than the XChallenge, let me state some reasons:

First the suspension: The XCountry has the same forks as the XChallenge, but it's just about a 1" shorter travel, but that's a easy fix. But the rear shock on the XCountry is a better setup, what I mean is that you can upgrade it allot easier (I'm not sure if you can put a coil/oil shock on the XChallenge you might be able too???) But IMO a coil/oil shock is a better setup then the air damper (at least for now).

I dunno maybe I'm just crazy
Incorrect, the forks on the XChallenge have adjustable rebound and compression dampening while the Country does not. Also the amount of travel between the two is different.

As for the rear air shock, it is stupid simple to get on it, set the PSI and ride the pee out of it. You get tired and need more foot on the ground just let out some air and you are lower. The OEM air units have proven to be very reliable and they offer a much plusher ride offroad while providing maximum traction over a hydro unit. Yes you could tune an aftermarket hydro unit to a more specific criteria on an XChallenge (you can replace the air shock with a hydro), but you wont be doing that with the OEM stock hydro shock. So you need to spend $900 +/- for Ohlins and then know what you're doing in reference to tuning suspensions, and you still have a non adjustable front fork.

I do like the XCountry seat much more then the XChallenge for dual sport comfort, however the XCountry seat would prevent someone from really man handling the bike when offroad.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:56 AM   #780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Atlanta
Incorrect, the forks on the XChallenge have adjustable rebound and compression dampening while the Country does not. Also the amount of travel between the two is different.

As for the rear air shock, it is stupid simple to get on it, set the PSI and ride the pee out of it. You get tired and need more foot on the ground just let out some air and you are lower. The OEM air units have proven to be very reliable and they offer a much plusher ride offroad while providing maximum traction over a hydro unit. Yes you could tune an aftermarket hydro unit to a more specific criteria on an XChallenge (you can replace the air shock with a hydro), but you wont be doing that with the OEM stock hydro shock. So you need to spend $900 +/- for Ohlins and then know what you're doing in reference to tuning suspensions, and you still have a non adjustable front fork.

I do like the XCountry seat much more then the XChallenge for dual sport comfort, however the XCountry seat would prevent someone from really man handling the bike when offroad.

Can you get the Xcountry seats? Might be cool to have the xcountry seat on the challenge for longer rides.
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