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Old 10-24-2006, 08:47 PM   #16
bonox OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
Does the meter work on AC?
It is switched to AC?
Or, are the leads plugged into the jacks for ACV?
Meters are configured in many different ways.

Plug it into a wall outlet for 117 or 234. Does AU use 234VAC? (i.e. 220, 230, 240)
Can you post a pic of the meter in use?
One that shows the legend for the lead jacks?

- Jim
Jim - i'm familiar with a meter - wall reads 225VAC (on 700V range). My meter has only two ranges for AC: 700 and 200V. Was using it on 200VAC for the ABS sensor where it produces a reading of xxx.x. No reading at all from a spinup by hand (and leads in the correct housing in the meter). Everything has the same range except for HV DC.

It was difficult to get a pair of clip leads into the deep housing of the socket, but i'm fairly sure they were ok as they recorded non zero (shorted meter leads) resistance of about 50 ohms from memory)

I'll try again later with help from the missus.

Reports from the F650 suggest a 0.3VAC output at 30rpm, which is a fair bit slower than I was spinning it.
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Old 10-24-2006, 08:53 PM   #17
bonox OP
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just for you Jim (because you've been so helpful) it is a meter like this



leads are connected to bottom two of the three (black in the bottom common, red above), setting is 200V AC (ie mirror of this picture grabbed from an electronics store)
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Old 10-24-2006, 09:43 PM   #18
Crilly
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I use the Audiovox CCS-100 cruise control. I use a PNP sensor hooked up to the tack wire. I get them from WW grainger. On my K1200R I get 6 pulses from the brake rotor per rev. Any more pulses and it would work only at speeds of less than 80 MPH. The ABS ring has hundreds of spaces. There for there would be way to many pulses per rev. When I say rev, I mean rev of the wheel.
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Old 10-24-2006, 09:56 PM   #19
bonox OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crilly
I use the Audiovox CCS-100 cruise control. I use a PNP sensor hooked up to the tack wire. I get them from WW grainger. On my K1200R I get 6 pulses from the brake rotor per rev. Any more pulses and it would work only at speeds of less than 80 MPH. The ABS ring has hundreds of spaces. There for there would be way to many pulses per rev. When I say rev, I mean rev of the wheel.
that's all well and good, but I would like to get a signal that relates to road speed - tach signals don't do that because you have a gearbox in the middle. If I have to do that I will, but I would prefer not to.
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:21 PM   #20
bonox OP
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Jim - apparently, a two wire device is an inductive type, 3 wire is Hall effect.

the 12GS therefore has an inductive type as you originally mentioned.
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:00 AM   #21
Poolside
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonox
. . . the 12GS has [a two wire] inductive type
Alright well that's good then, it's the same type of inductive or 'VR' sensor as on the 1100/1150. So if we make something for your bike, it'll work for mine. I know it may not be the exact same sensor, but if it's needed, the signal conditioning circuit will be the same.

Tech side note: The R12 motor does not use a Hall Effect on the crank like the 1100/1150. It uses a VR sensor that triggers off the front of the crank. It makes its AC signal from the teeth of the counterbalance gear drive.

So I had to take a look at the signal from the rear wheel sensor on my bike. I'll double check later in case they are very different from your readings. I mean, the readings from the two bikes should be close. The number of ring gear teeth per revolution may be different for the 1200, but still.

The sensor resistance 130W

I was able to make a more or less steady 100 RPM for 15 seconds or so, and with a 77in. tire circumference . . . that works out to only 7.3mph.

At a wavering 7.3mph, the AC output wavers between 8 to 10mV.

That'd prolly be why your meter wasn't seeing it.

Put on a work glove and stick your index finger in the spokes and try to make 100 revs, it's tough. (Check the math if you want, I was wearing the beer goggles.)

Next you can plug the sensor back in and stick a thin gauge needle into the sensor wire to connect it to the meter you will be using. One meter lead to one sensor wire, and the other meter lead to ground.

Spin the back tire with the engine. You can ride around with the meter taped to the tank, or maybe turn the ABS off and drive the wheel while on the center stand. We'll see if the front or rear sensor provides the signal used for the speedometer.

And what's your first name?

- Jim

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Poolside screwed with this post 10-25-2006 at 04:06 AM
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Old 10-25-2006, 07:14 AM   #22
Crilly
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I just picked the tack wire on the audiovox instead of the speed wire because I knew it would work. So with the positive negitive positive sensor it holds the same speed no matter what gear.
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crilly
I just picked the tack wire on the audiovox instead of the speed wire because I knew it would work. So with the positive negitive positive sensor it holds the same speed no matter what gear.
Hey there Crilly. Yes the other 'square edged' signals are available. And maybe the Audiovox cruise cannot accept a VR sensor signal directly.

I understand the reasons you wired your control the way you did. I also am not concerned about not being able to turn off the cruise, change gears, and resume speed. Maybe I'd change my mind if I tried it.

Plus, with the model bonox is using, an engine speed input saves the need for wiring into the clutch lever switch. At least that's how I read the instructions. The cruise senses the slight but instantaneous rpm increase the moment the clutch is disengaged any amount.

Hey bonox, you are going to use the clutch lever switch yes? So you will have inputs from VR for road speed, and inputs from clutch and brake lever switches to trigger the 'interrupt' function say. Is that right?

- Jim

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Old 10-25-2006, 02:57 PM   #24
Poolside
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crilly
- I use the Audiovox CCS-100 cruise control. I use a PNP sensor hooked up to the tack wire. I get them from WW grainger. On my K1200R I get 6 pulses from the brake rotor per rev. Any more pulses and it would work only at speeds of less than 80 MPH. The ABS ring has hundreds of spaces. There for there would be way to many pulses per rev. When I say rev, I mean rev of the wheel.

- I just picked the tack wire on the audiovox instead of the speed wire because I knew it would work. So with the positive negitive positive sensor it holds the same speed no matter what gear.
Ok Crilly, I see I missed something. Your initial comment of "I use a PNP sensor hooked up to the tack wire." led me to believe that everything else you were saying was related to engine speed. The subsequent comments about wheel speed led me to think that it wasn't being explained clearly.

Now I think I get it. The "tack wire" you were talking about is the cruise control tach input, not the engine tach output.

What is this item you get from Grainger's? A divide-by-some-number IO device? What's the brand and part number on the case? It seems like it would be a handy item to have around. Like a church key

- Jim
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:31 PM   #25
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Hi Guys

Couldn't get a signal again with help this evening. At 10mV Jim, as you say I wouldn't see it with my equipment. It would be fair to say though that the sensor is more or less the same as the 1150.

Crilly - I was planning to use the tach wire as a clutch switch alternative, however the cheaper units available for sale in my part of the world will not take an ignition/alternator etc input (according to the manufacturer). They do come with a VR sensor and a couple of magnets, but I can't get one of them to work because I can't find anywhere to mount the magnets.

The next model up will accept ignition and VSS signals, however I have trouble getting a good enough signal from the VSS to make this unit work. I don't know if the speedometer computer plays with the signal at all, which is why I am investigating the use of the signal directly from the ABS sensor.

What would be nice is to reduce the number of pulses from the abs sensor to make a cheap unit work (only has options for 2000 or 5000ppm, which is far too low for the abs ring). Alternatively, I need a useful signal from the ABS sensor to get the more expensive unit to work using its VSS INPUT (which will accept up to 192,000ppm).

Jim is trying to help me work out if there is a usable signal from the ABS to do this.

What is this PNP thing you talk about? And how are you getting 6 pulses/rev from the brake rotor? Are you using a VR sensor and the sweeping of part of the rotor passed the sensor? What am I missing.
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:35 PM   #26
bonox OP
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PS, name's Tim btw.

Crilly - are you using one of these types of things mounted over a web on the brakr rotor carrier?

http://niles4.ebiz.grainger.com/imag...og/396/455.pdf
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:36 PM   #27
Crilly
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Found the box it came in.
Telemecanique - Inductive proximity switch - XS1 M08PA370 - PNP
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:45 PM   #28
bonox OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crilly
Found the box it came in.
Telemecanique - Inductive proximity switch - XS1 M08PA370 - PNP
Do you have a picture of the bike mounting you used?

Is it hooked directly to the input of the cruise, or did you need to use a divide circuit to get under the 8000ppm limit of the CCS100?

If I had a divide circuit, I should be able to use the existing ABS sensor should I not Jim?
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:44 PM   #29
Crilly
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Wired to the aux circuit - direct to the input tack wire on the CCS 100. Two wires to the tail light from the curise control. And the rest to the aux circuit. On my GS I get 5 pulses per rev of the wheel. 60 MPH = 1 mile a min. Wheel Diameter 25". 25" times 3.1416= 78.54" divided by 12 = 6.55 Feet. 5280' divided by 6.55 = 806 RPM times 5 = 4000 pulses per min.
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Old 10-25-2006, 07:34 PM   #30
bonox OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crilly
Wired to the aux circuit - direct to the input tack wire on the CCS 100. Two wires to the tail light from the curise control. And the rest to the aux circuit. On my GS I get 5 pulses per rev of the wheel. 60 MPH = 1 mile a min. Wheel Diameter 25". 25" times 3.1416= 78.54" divided by 12 = 6.55 Feet. 5280' divided by 6.55 = 806 RPM times 5 = 4000 pulses per min.
cool, but how and where did you mount that pnp sensor? And what triggers it? The metal webs on the brake rotor carrier? The bolts that hold the rotor?, magnets fixed to the rotor somehow?
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