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Old 10-25-2006, 08:00 PM   #31
bonox OP
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Back to the mechanics:

The GS throttle cable splitter assembly:


and the RT:



doesn't exactly look like a stretch. From pulling the real things apart, the pictures are accurate. All you need is to drill a hole in the rhs of the case for the cruise actuator cable, and order or make the cruise quadrant cam and return spring.

If you wanted the full monty you could also find a return cable, cancel switch etc, but why bother.
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Old 10-25-2006, 08:28 PM   #32
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The sensor sences metal. I mounted it so it counts the 5 spooks of the brake rotor.
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Old 10-25-2006, 08:31 PM   #33
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thanks Crilly
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:17 PM   #34
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Alright, this is becoming clearer.

The cruise control manufacturer seeks to differentiate the raw VR wheel sensor signal, from the VSS (Vehicle Speed Signal).

The raw sensor signal is the small AC signal right from the sensor of course. The one you and I are looking at. Let's call it VR.

But the Vehicle Speed Signal (VSS) is the 'manufactured' DC pulsetrain signal sent directly to a speedometer say.

But the GS (as do a whole slew of vehicles) doesn't send a VSS pulse train to the speedometer. Instead the raw wheel sensor signal is interpreted by the ABS controller, and some data value (identified as vehicle speed) is put out on the CANbus for the instrument cluster to read. So a VSS signal, as typically known, does not exist on a great many vehicles.

I KNOW all this going in, and I made the mistake because it seemed silly to me to design a product that would have accept signals catch-as-catch-can, and not include the primary sensor as a possible input. So I was thinking it wasn't an issue to consider the VR and VSS signals in the same 'batch'.

Silly me. I think I'm on the same page now.


Questions:

Ok, so Tim, what is the max PPM (Pulse Per Minute) for the input(s) of the control you prefer to use?

I see where you say 2000 or 5000ppm. Those are the choices then?

Does your data list anything about voltage levels?

The data for PPM range that I have pertains to the AP-300 and AP-500 so it does not apply I see.

Will you mind soldering a little proto board or something together?

If so, there still may be other solutions. Not that I have any idea what they are right now mind you.

[Last minute EDIT] Are you going to use the proximity switch on the rotor carrier spokes instead?

- Jim

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Old 10-25-2006, 09:58 PM   #35
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Hi Jim

I would like to get a cheap unit working (limited to a choice of 2000 or 5000ppm) because it comes with a nice backlit control pad, simple to waterproof etc. The more expensive ones have stalks made for cars.

I have no idea of the input voltage for the cruise pulse sensor input, but it comes with an inductive sensor out of the box and a couple of magnets. I can't get it to register anything just passing lumps of metal by it (ie it seems to require the magnets and not just a lump of vaguely ferrous metal), which is why I am curious about the proximity sensor crilly mentioned. A little shooting through catalogues suggests that his sensor is worth about US$90 which means I'd be better off with the more expensive cruise unit that will accept very high ppm (like the ap300 you've looked at) and use the abs sensor input directly.

What I would prefer is some method of using the high ppm abs VR sensor to generate a similar signal, but divided by a lot (10 or 20 say). Is that possible? There used to be a kit for sale here to correct vss signals for speedometers - I thought I could use it until it was removed from sale quickly (perhaps they had issues with it).

Soldering a board is no problem mate.

Cheers

bonox screwed with this post 10-25-2006 at 10:03 PM
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Old 10-25-2006, 10:02 PM   #36
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ps: seeing as crilly uses a cruise unit that will accept 12V input (from a proximity sensor, tach etc) and my available unit will not, I guess that is out. I'm back to using the abs VR if i want to keep it cheap.

Worst case is that I get the more expensive unit and STILL need a prox sensor if I want to use rear wheel speed and the onboard VSS signal isn't usable.
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:04 AM   #37
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Hey guys. You rock, and it'll be cool to see what comes out of this even if I don't follow all the PNP crap.

There are 2-wire and 3-wire hall sensors, and the iABS wheelspeed sensors are 2-wire HES.

Edit: look for .6~1.5V on the return wire. That is the signal. Doesn't sound very usable to me, but it's all there is. As mentioned, there is no wire carrying a speed signal any more.
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Old 10-26-2006, 03:08 PM   #38
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Hey Anton, are you trolling, or do you believe your comments? I mean, I know we rock and everything, but the other things?

- Jim

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Old 10-26-2006, 03:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
Hey Anton, are you trolling, or do you believe your comments? I mean, I know we rock and everything, but the other things?
The 2-wire HES stuff? The latter. I take it you don't?
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Old 10-26-2006, 03:31 PM   #40
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You are the Technical Editor for OTL magazine?

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Old 10-26-2006, 03:36 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
You are the Technical Editor for OTL magazine?
One of them, but I seem to be doing most of it at the moment. Joe Katz and Oak answer some member questions online.
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Old 10-29-2006, 07:24 PM   #42
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Either of these parts should save you some work Tim.

LM1815 - Adaptive Variable Reluctance Sensor Amplifier
Product page: http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM1815.html
Datasheet: http://www.national.com/ds.cgi/LM/LM1815.pdf

NCV1124: Dual Variable-Reluctance Sensor Interface IC
Product page: http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions....do?id=NCV1124
Datasheet: http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral...TA%20SHEET.PDF

- Jim

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Old 10-29-2006, 08:29 PM   #43
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Thanks for the effort Jim

I've got some shopping to do :)

I've ordered the parts for the cruise - should cost all of about $10, but of course nothing in the country and the dealer reckons about a month wait - so plenty of time to find and wireup an amplifier for the VR sensor.

I'll let you know how it goes, but don't hold your breath - i've no idea how good bmw parts service is here!

I also bought a better DMM thismorning - will read to 1mV AC, plus frequency, so i've lots of things to look at now!

Thanks again.

Tim
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Old 10-30-2006, 03:34 PM   #44
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I'm watching this intently...

My '06 GSA does not have ABS so I'll be curious about lots of things that get worked out.

I do have spoked wheels so for me I can go out to a bicycle shop and buy the magnet thingies (technical term) that attach to the spokes and from there put on as many as I need to get to the right ppm range. I really was hoping there was just a clear VSS connector I could use though.

On the splitter box and adding the cruise cable. I don't know the technical terms to use but if the cruise is rotating the throttle on and the handgrip is held closed could that cause the cable to pop out of its trace somewhere? With a second cable to the grip it'll also rotate the grip I think (did on my GL1800) which keeps tension on the cables.

I bought an electronic cruise that uses the electric actuator instead of vacuum but I just don't have time to even ride my bike until I get my house on the market. Painting, flooring, cleaning, building... >sigh<

At any rate please do post on this thread as you guys work this out. I plan to subscribe to it. If/when I get around to doing anything I'll add on here as well.

Thanks for hashing this out!
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Old 10-30-2006, 05:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daGeeeze
My '06 GSA does not have ABS so I'll be curious about lots of things that get worked out.

I really was hoping there was just a clear VSS connector I could use though.

On the splitter box and adding the cruise cable. I don't know the technical terms to use but if the cruise is rotating the throttle on and the handgrip is held closed could that cause the cable to pop out of its trace somewhere? With a second cable to the grip it'll also rotate the grip I think (did on my GL1800) which keeps tension on the cables.
All 1200s have a VR wheel signal. Without ABS, the wheel sensor connects directly to the instrument cluster.

If your non-ABS bike does not have the front sensor rings, then is has the sensor inside the rear hub.

About the cable issue. Yes it seems possible to have the problem you mention. And because of that, I think the better solution is to try to fit the RT throttle cable return setup to the GS.

This way the cruise control actuator can pull on the return cable.

Does anyone know if the RT cable perch parts fit on the GS? I think that the grip and cable perch is the came for both bikes, and the cable drums (or trace) in the twist grips are the same too.

Maybe the RT throttle cable, and a few pieces of RT external cable hardware at the perch will work.

And instead of connecting the return cable to the cable splitter, connect it to the cruise actuator.

- Jim

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