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Old 12-12-2006, 06:07 AM   #1
laramie LC4 OP
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LC4 Engine Removal/Replacement

Ok, for all of you who caught my last maintenance guide you know what my motivations are for doing this…..I want groupies just likeCreeper. Unfortunately, I have yet to aquire a single one. I thought for sure that the post on the Maintenance of the Steering Head Bearing’s would make me a shoe in, but alas I still sit here groupie-less. I don’t know exactly what happened, maybe it was too trivial, maybe everyone already knew how to do it,maybe people didn’t understand my sharp wit and humor? Either way, I guess I need to step it up if I'm to attain the mythical, god like status that ol’ Creeper has. So here it goes, grab your beer, tools, and the nearest LC4 you can find cause this is going to be fun.


First a few disclaimers;

1. I don’t want any crap about how my engine is dirty. Yes I know Creepers would be spotless, but what can I say, I actually ride my bike instead of just changing color schemes every few days.

2. My bike is not your bike. There will certainly be some differences and variations between the different models. So I don’t want to hear, “ but my bike is this way…”. Well good for you, then do it your way and shut up. was that mean? I’m sorry…not!!!!

3. Please don’t attempt this if you are not mechanically inclined. I don’t want any nasty emails or PM’s telling me that I goofed up your bike! I’ve tried to lay out this process as smooth and easily as possible and with plenty of pics. If you still have questions, please ask before you do anything or consult the proper maintenance manual.

4. If you are prepared, this whole process should take less than 2 hrs but please allow for those unforeseen complications. The more you rush, the more trouble you’ll have.

5. Make sure you got plenty of beer, as you know I've been known to put a few down myself.


Removal of the LC4 Engine


Tool List:

Sockets- 6mm, 8mm, 13mm Deep Well, 19mm
Wrench’s- 10mm, 12mm, 17mm, 19mm
Allen Heads- #4, #5, #6, #8 metrics
Misc.- Speed handle, Phillips Screwdriver, Spring Puller (or channel locks), Needle Nose Pliers, Diagonal Pliers (dykes), LongSocket Extension, Fuel Can, Bucket, Waste Oil Container, 12 pack of adult beverages

Preparation:

-Start by opening your first beer and assess the situation, get your self mentally prepared for the task at hand.

-Remove all bodywork from the bike (tank, shrouds, skidplate).

-Drain Oil from the Bike. Remove both drain plugs (13mm& 19mm). Then remove the front oil filter using 17mm wrench. Once oil is drained use #4 Allen head to remove down tube oil plug, and drain oil from the down tube. While waiting, finish your beer.



Once oil is completely drained, place bike up on centerstand or lift. Open a new beer.



- Disconnect Positive battery terminal from the battery.




Removal of the Carburetor:

-Drain float bowl on carb using Phillips screwdriver. Be careful, this one likes to strip out! sorry for the crappy pic, but you get the idea…..
-Make sure to place your fuel can under the drain hose.
-Have another drink, if ya keep up this pace, you’ll soon think your as smart, as good looking, and as lucky as me!



-Remove 2 rubber hoses from right side of carb



-Loosen (2) 8mm bolts and disconnect throttle cable by removing eyelets from throttle tube.



-Remove lower throttle cable from carb using 10mm wrench.There are 2 places your need to loosen. The front you access from the bottom and remove from spacer. It is not necessary to remove the bolts all the way from the throttle cable. The rear on the other hand has to have the bottom nut spun the entire way off of the cable to remove. Once the 2 are disconnected, remove throttle cable from the bike.



-Remove front worm clamp from the carb and intake boot (6mm socket and speed handle)



-Remove (2) front band clamps on the right side of carb (6mm socket and speed handle); be careful not to drop the bolts once removed. If ya do drop them, grab a long magnet and another beer; you may be fishing for a while!



-Turn carb slight to the right and access the choke cable on left side of carb (12mm wrench). You can either do this now, or you can actually pull out the carb, being careful not to twist cable, and then remove the choke. Either way will work, it just depends on how much patience you have. What ever you do though, be careful the choke nut is plastic and will strip out easily!



-Pull up and out to remove the carb from the bike frame and engine.



-Congratulations, you’ve made it through the first few steps. Lets celebrate with another cold adult beverage!

Removal of the Exhaust Headers:

- I have an aftermarket exhaust on my bike so your disassembly may be slightly different. Look at your bike and determine if there are further steps that need to be taken to remove your headers.

-Remove front springs from the exhaust manifold on the front of the engine. You can use either a spring puller (if you have one) or do like I did and just use a set of channel locks. If you use the channel locks just be careful not to slip and pop yourself with the springs. If you’ve been keeping up with the drinking it shouldn’t hurt that bad if ya do slip…..



-Remove collector springs



-Remove mid-pipe springs



- For those with stock headers the manual says to remove this bolt as well.



- Remove head pipe and mid-pipe from engine and frame



Radiators:

- Remove cooling fans (2) 6mm screws from left side of fan. Then disconnect electrical connection and remove fan.



- Remove Radiator cap



- Remove Coolant from radiators. Place bucket under left rad and loosen lower worm clamp on lower hose.



- I find it easier and cleaner to just slightly loosen the coolant hose enough (6mm) so that the coolant will slowly pour out. If you remove the hose too quickly it will make a big mess and you’ll be cleaning coolant up off the floor. While you wait it would be a perfect time to have another beer.



- Once the rad stops dripping, loosen and remove these other (2) hoses with 6mm socket. Be careful, there will still be coolant in them and you need to have your bucket handy to catch the overflow.



and….



-The engine should now be pretty well drained of coolant.The next step is to disconnect the braided line from the top of the water pump



-Now move to the right side of the bike and remove the 2 worm clamps (6mm) from the thermostat housing. I know one of mine is bigger but the stock size is 6mm, or you can just use a flat head screwdriver if you want



- Now take the time to clean up any spilt coolant or oil from the previous steps. PLEASE REMEMBER MOST ANTI-FREEZE IS HIGHLY TOXIC AND NEEDS TO BE DISPOSED OF PROPERLY. PLEASE DO NOT DUMP IT OUT SIDE OR JUST POUR IT DOWN THE DRAIN. CONTACT YOUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND TAKE IT TO A HAZARDOUS MATERIAL DISPOSAL SITE. If possible I would recommend that during the reinstallation of your radiators that you use a biodegradable anti-freeze or a product similar to Engine Ice, which is non-toxic and will not harm the environment or animals. Please and thank you…..cheers!

Removal of Clutch and Decomp Cables:

-By now you should be feeling pretty good, just make sure you stay focused.

- On the handlebar, remove rubber cover on the clutch lever. Turn adjustment knob all the way in and remove eyelet from the lever



- Remove the lower end of the cable from the clutch lever on the engine cases. Pull it back to slide out of the hole.



DECOMP and OIL VENTS-

-Remove both tank mounts on the left and right side of the frame (8mm).

-Remove (2) oil vent lines, (6mm). One on the exhaust valvecover…



….the other on the engine case



-Loosen both ends of the oil lines and completely remove them from the bike.

(OK, so I'm an idiot. These next few steps are kind of overkill. You can easily lift up on the decomp lever and disconnect the eyelet and cable before removing the valve cover. If you cant lift it high enough to free it, spin the rear wheel and try again, or just do it the way I have lined out below….)

- Loosen and remove (3) valve cover bolts from the exhaust valves using a #5 allen head. I hate these things, it never fails that I scrape the crap out of my hands on the radiator. If you experience the same, better stop and have another drink….



- Remove valve cover from the engine being careful not to damage the gasket.
- Once removed, use 10mm wrench to loosen decomp adjustment and twist it up and out of support arm.
- Remove eyelet from the decomp lever on engine.



- Last thing is to disconnect the spark plug wire from the plug



Remove Chain and Chain Guide:

-Remove (2) 8mm bolts on counter sprocket cover



-Remove guide plate by removing 10mm bolt. This can be kind of tricky and is best accessed from the back with a 10mm wrench. Be patient, this one take a little while, plus it may be Loc-tited in so it may take some strength. In this pic I have the wrench on the front in order to show you where the bolt is, but I recommend that you instead insert the wrench back where my hand is. This will allow you more room to turn the wrench and help shorten this otherwise painful process. By now you should be almost drunk, please don’t throw your tools or berate your bike because of your drinking problem….

-p.s.- once again, I don’t want any crap about my dirty bike! I swear I took it to the car wash and sprayed it off prior to this work; I can’t help it if I missed a few spots.



- Finally, locate the Master Link on your chain and remove chain.

Electrical;

-Remove power cable from starter motor (10mm)



-Disconnect all remaining electrical connections on engine.
  • (1) Flat 4 connector
  • (1) Single Wire connector
  • (2) Double Wire connectors
  • (1) 12 Prong Connector
- Use a 7mm wrench and disconnect Temp Switch on the right side of the engine




Oil Lines:

-Loosen and disconnect upper banjo bolt on the left side ofthe down tube (12mm). Pass it in between the left radiator and frame (you may need to loosen the (3) 8mm bolts holding the rad to the frame to allow enough room).



- Loosen and remove banjo bolt on the front of the clutch cover, left side of engine (12mm). Make sure to be careful when removing and don’t loose the copper washers.




Engine Mounts:

- There are (3) different areas in which the engine is mounted to the frame, the front down tube area, the lower frame, and the swingarm. I begin with the bottom, then the swing arm, then the front.

- BOTTOM-

- Remove (2) plastic stoppers on the lower part of frame (left and right side) to expose mounting bolt.



- Use a #8 allen head on the R- side and a 13mm deep well socket on the left. Loosen and remove mounting bolt. Along with the bolt, the(2) skid plate spacers/mounts will drop out.

-SWING ARM-

-Insert large flat head screw driver on the left side of bike to hold head of bolt and keep it from spinning. Use 19mm socket on left side and remove nut. Use long socket extension or a screwdriver to push out the bolt (you may have to gab right side with needle nose pliers to straighten out bolthead in order for it to come out cleanly). CAUTION!!!! Once this bolt is out the swing arm and rear tire will drop if you don’t insert extension a screwdriver.



-This last step is open to interpretation. If anyone knows of a better way to do this please chime in. the maintenance manual doesn’t help at all and is vague at best. Either that or I’ve had too much to drink….

-FRONT-

- Use 13mm wrench and 13mm socket to remove (4) bolts from engine mounts, left and right side. Then use a 17mm wrench and 17mm socket to remove last remaining bolt.




Removal of the Engine:

-Be careful during this next step, the LC4 engine is NOT lightweight and can be difficult to handle. You also want to take care to not damage the radiators or any other part on the bike.

- The easiest way to get the engine out is to stand on the left side of the bike with your left arm over the back bone reaching down to hold onto the ignition cover while using your right hand to hold under the backside of the clutch cover. Slightly tilt the engine to the right and pull the engine out on the left side of the frame. If it is not coming out, STOP and look at what is happening, DO NOT FORCE ANYTHING!!! If needed have someone help you. Hopefully without to much difficulty the engine should come right out.



-Now go drink another beer, your job here is done!!!!!!



-Once I finish replacing my base gasket (which I’m documenting as well) I will add onto this post to include the installation ofthe engine back into the frame. One could just do my prior instructions in reverse but there are a few tricks that will make it a lot easier if ya wait. I should have the new gasket sometime this week so hopefully I put the engine in by next week and type up the steps.

laters,

laramie

ps- anyone interested in become a groupie, please send a self addressed stamped envelope with $20 acceptance fee to the following address. Make sure to include a picture (the dirtier the better) and a brief statement as to why you should become an honorary groupie.

Laramie’s Groupies
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, D.C. 20500


Engine Installation

Ok, so I didn’t take all the time I should of and didn’t document the “base gasket” job. Sorry, sue me….

As for the engine installation; if you’ve made it this far, I'm going to assume that you have some skills ( I know creeper is going to kill me for this…) so go ahead and just reverse the process listed above. The main trick to remember is in the installation of the engine into the frame. Once you get it set in the frame, make sure you have a long (12+ in. socket extension) to put threw the swingarm mounting bolt holes. Make sure that you do this from the left side of the bike since the mounting bolt has to go in on the rightside. You want to be able to push out the extension while driving in the actual bolt; this isn’t possible if you do it backwards. Once that bolt is in, then move to the front and place all 6 front bolts and support brackets in place. DO NOT tighten anything down, you’ll need to move the engine around a bit to install the lower bolt and skid plate spacers. When installing the spacers, make sure to install in the correct direction. If you don’t the skid plate wont line upand you’ll be repeating this step. This is what the maintenance manual shows for this step….



– When working on a model with an engine guard keep in mind that
opening A must be located on the rightside and face the engine.

Personally I think it always best to double-check your work since this isn’t exactly clear. Just grab your skid plate and hold it under the bike. Do the holes line up? If so you did it right, if not fix it….
Installing the lower bolt is the most difficult of the 3 mounting points. Take you time and be careful, don’t screw up the threads on the bolt by hammering it threw. Use a long skinny screwdriver to line things up. I also used the wooden part of my rubber mallets handle to help pry the engine around to help. In other words, use your brain and see what needs to move to make it line up….
Once you have all of the 3 points mounted, then you need to torque everything to spec. Go ahead and tighten everything down then get out the torque wrench. Here are the torque values that you will need to know for the installation.

Tightening Torques:

Swingarm pivot: 100Nm 74 ft.lb
Engine mounting bolts M8: 40Nm 30 ft.lb
Engine mounting bolts M10: 70Nm 50 ft.lb
Banjo bolt (oil pipe on the frame): 15 Nm 11 ft.lb
Jet screw (clutch cover): 10Nm 7 ft.lb
All other M6 bolts: 10Nm 7 ft.lb
All other M8 bolts: 25Nm 19 ft.lb
All other M10 bolts: 45Nm 33 ft.lb


And that is that, as they like to say…I hope your engine is back in the frame without too much trouble. I'm sure that there will be comments and modifications to these steps so please feel free to make your comments and don’t forget the groupie pictures. I shall be waiting with anticipation….


laters again,


laramie
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laramie LC4 screwed with this post 01-24-2008 at 06:40 PM
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:45 AM   #2
rjf
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I looked all through the hard parts catalog and couldn't find it.

Can you tell me the p/n for that KTM bucket ?
Does it come in Silver, black and different sizes also ?





Well done Dude,

Paging Meat popsicle to the Thread index courtesy phone, call on the new addition hotline.
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:01 AM   #3
laramie LC4 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjf
I looked all through the hard parts catalog and couldn't find it.

Can you tell me the p/n for that KTM bucket ?
Does it come in Silver, black and different sizes also ?



Well done Dude,

Paging Meat popsicle to the Thread index courtesy phone, call on the new addition hotline.
its actually one of those "home depot" ktm fluid buckets. it seams that ktm was to busy working on that ugly 690SM to design one themselves, so they just out-sourced it to another company.

thanks for the comment, this has been a real pain in the arse to get up and running. ive been trying to post it over at ktmtalk and have not had much luck. its up, but the pics got all jumbled and now im having to try and fix it in ".txt" and ".htm" which i have no idea how to do.

fortunately i was able to copy, then paste it over here then just cut and paste things in the right order. i was hoping that i could then just copy and paste it back over there, but it doesnt work, i lose all of the pics.

anyways, ill keep working and see if i can get it to done.

laters,

laramie
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:14 AM   #4
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Hickson's bike is cleaner, his pictures aren't so fuzzy, and his text is more concise. But, then again, he is so yesterday...

All hail Laramie, the "Newcreeper". Can I be a disciple?

Nice job, by the way... soon to be inducted into Meat's index I'll bet.
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:32 AM   #5
laramie LC4 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
Hickson's bike is cleaner, his pictures aren't so fuzzy, and his text is more concise. But, then again, he is so yesterday...
Hickson ???? who the hell is this Hickson ????

he better not be trying to steal my groupies !!! if so ill have to have him shot !!!! they're mine, all mine!!!

laters,

laramie
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DON'T TRUST CUT 7! HE IS A CROOK! ASK ME HOW I KNOW.

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Old 12-12-2006, 08:10 AM   #6
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Perfect timing I have a leaky gasket that is getting addressed soon and this thread will come in handy.
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:16 AM   #7
meat popsicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
... soon to be inducted into Meat's index I'll bet.
Depends. No, not the ginch...

Depends on if I do some minor reformatting and update the links, which is needed. Or if I do the major reformatting and update the links, which I would rather do - one time instead of two.

I can't just slip new links into Post #1 because it is at the 30K character limit; Post #2 might be in a similar position. So I need to start dumping stuff to make room. Yeah, there is plenty of stuff to dump, but I would rather implement my new formatting idea that should make plenty of room: Interactive TOC

Both options require time, which is in short supply currently.

PS - I will review this thread when I find some time Laramie, but I will not be able to vet it like Creeper could. I will try using the engine manual and what I have learned...
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:21 AM   #8
ChrisC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Depends. No, not the ginch...
WTF is a "ginch"?

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Old 12-12-2006, 10:33 AM   #9
meat popsicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
WTF is a "ginch"?
Google Images will enlighten you
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:01 AM   #10
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Nice job, Laramie! Thanks!
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:12 PM   #11
ChrisC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Google Images will enlighten you
Now I'm really afraid...

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Old 12-12-2006, 01:01 PM   #12
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Nice write up Laramie,
Well done and thanks..
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:46 PM   #13
meat popsicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
Now I'm really afraid...
Be very afraid...
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:14 PM   #14
laramie LC4 OP
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my god!! what a pain in the arse that was. i finally got the post over at ktmtalk figured out (thanks to admin), i have been trying to get it to work all bloody day long. anyways, the pics and new "htm" file has been sent to pat so hopefully he will be able to get the post fixed this evening. then i'll be able to accumulate 2x's the amount of groupies!!!

laters,

laramie
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DON'T TRUST CUT 7! HE IS A CROOK! ASK ME HOW I KNOW.

'12 LC8 990R, '02 LC4 640, '05 WR 450f (part-out), '98 XR400R, '76 KE100, '05 525 (Step-Child)
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by laramie LC4
my god!! what a pain in the arse that was. ...
I thought you were joining in for a second...
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