ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-23-2013, 02:58 PM   #181
andrewgore
Team MGH
 
andrewgore's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: NW Suburbs, IL
Oddometer: 3,307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I missed this. 1.5 months later, how did it go?
I hadn't gotten around to it yet (un)fortunately. I was fighting engine issues with the bike and that took precedence. Then I picked up a WR450F, so my lighting desire on the YZ250F dropped a bit. I'll post up when I do it though. I've got the same thing I need to do on my 1974 Kawasaki F7 175, so I'll probably do them both at the same time here.

Andrew
andrewgore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 03:08 PM   #182
Luke OP
GPoET&P
 
Luke's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Idiotville, OR
Oddometer: 4,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravityisnotmyfriend View Post
....

So, what's the capacitor do? If I replace that, will the trailtech RR I bought work? OR have I already burned it out?

Would it hurt anything to hook it back up and try the headlight again?


Thanks for your reply!
The cap smooths the output voltage from the regulator. The regulator limits the peak voltage by clamping the stator to nearly 0 volts after the output voltage exceeeds 14V or so. It resets at the beginning of each AC cycle. If there is no smoothing device (cap or battery) the lights just get a series of short (less than 1milliSecond) pulses of 14V. The higher the RPM, the shorter the pulses.

It's likely there's nothing damaged at all besides your old dead cap. I'd get a new one, 6uF won't do much of anything. It probably won't hurt anything to try it, though.
Luke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 03:13 PM   #183
Luke OP
GPoET&P
 
Luke's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Idiotville, OR
Oddometer: 4,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewgore View Post
I hadn't gotten around to it yet (un)fortunately. I was fighting engine issues with the bike and that took precedence. Then I picked up a WR450F, so my lighting desire on the YZ250F dropped a bit. I'll post up when I do it though. I've got the same thing I need to do on my 1974 Kawasaki F7 175, so I'll probably do them both at the same time here.

Andrew

Ah, the stalled project. I may have some of those sitting around.
Luke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 03:32 PM   #184
Boon Booni
Red Clay Halo
 
Boon Booni's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Oddometer: 13,267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
The cap smooths the output voltage from the regulator. The regulator limits the peak voltage by clamping the stator to nearly 0 volts after the output voltage exceeeds 14V or so. It resets at the beginning of each AC cycle. If there is no smoothing device (cap or battery) the lights just get a series of short (less than 1milliSecond) pulses of 14V. The higher the RPM, the shorter the pulses.

It's likely there's nothing damaged at all besides your old dead cap. I'd get a new one, 6uF won't do much of anything. It probably won't hurt anything to try it, though.
Is this what the capacitor does on the 640 ADV as well?
__________________
Where the fuck...
Where the fuck is the bike?
You gotta be shitting me.
Where the fuck is the road?
Boon Booni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 03:38 PM   #185
Tremelune
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Oddometer: 13
It's what they all do...You can get one from an electronics store for a couple of bucks. My guess is that any cap 15+V and above, with 4000+ uF will do the trick.
Tremelune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 04:03 PM   #186
gravityisnotmyfriend
Beastly Adventurer
 
gravityisnotmyfriend's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: ((kg*m)/s^2), IA, USA
Oddometer: 1,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
The cap smooths the output voltage from the regulator. The regulator limits the peak voltage by clamping the stator to nearly 0 volts after the output voltage exceeeds 14V or so. It resets at the beginning of each AC cycle. If there is no smoothing device (cap or battery) the lights just get a series of short (less than 1milliSecond) pulses of 14V. The higher the RPM, the shorter the pulses.

It's likely there's nothing damaged at all besides your old dead cap. I'd get a new one, 6uF won't do much of anything. It probably won't hurt anything to try it, though.

Well, that's really great news. I'll try the old Cap, but I suspect it'll need to be replaced. The KTM version is about $60. Curiously, a 25V 10000 uF Cap out of an online store is only about $3. That's an amazing mark up! I'll try my old one - maybe tonight. Then, I'll see if the local radio shack has one. If not, I'll get one on order.

Thanks for the response. If this works, you've really made my day!
gravityisnotmyfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 04:05 PM   #187
Boon Booni
Red Clay Halo
 
Boon Booni's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Richmond, Va
Oddometer: 13,267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tremelune View Post
It's what they all do...You can get one from an electronics store for a couple of bucks. My guess is that any cap 15+V and above, with 4000+ uF will do the trick.
I guess I don't understand why a bike with a full sized 12 volt battery, 3 phase charging system, and a typical VRR would need with the capacitor? The batterie's job is to absorb the spikes from the VRR, no?

It seems to me like it's something there to allow you to run the bike without a battery and not fry the VRR.

?
__________________
Where the fuck...
Where the fuck is the bike?
You gotta be shitting me.
Where the fuck is the road?
Boon Booni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 05:06 PM   #188
Luke OP
GPoET&P
 
Luke's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Idiotville, OR
Oddometer: 4,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
I guess I don't understand why a bike with a full sized 12 volt battery, 3 phase charging system, and a typical VRR would need with the capacitor? The batterie's job is to absorb the spikes from the VRR, no?

It seems to me like it's something there to allow you to run the bike without a battery and not fry the VRR.

?
Yes. On the bikes with a battery I think it's redundant. However, since the CDI on the newer LC4s draws its power from the +12v supply that redundancy is very nice to have. If the battery dies then the cap allows the ignition to still function.

Running without the cap or battery won't damage the RR, but the RR will hold the voltage too low for any of the electronics to work.




Just to clarify: in case anyone is confused, the capacitor we are talking about is not the C in a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition). It's the same type of part, just not the same one.
Luke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 05:54 PM   #189
gravityisnotmyfriend
Beastly Adventurer
 
gravityisnotmyfriend's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: ((kg*m)/s^2), IA, USA
Oddometer: 1,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I don't have a wiring diagram for your bike but your description matches a '98.
I've got the original owner's handbook. I can post a scan of the electrical diagram up if you'd like to see it.

I did find this '97 version online:

It's very close, except in the RR area, mine only has 4 wires going to the RR. The yellow and blue come in from the alternator and the brown and red/white go to the capacitor. There is no extra green one going to the cap.
gravityisnotmyfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 07:17 PM   #190
Luke OP
GPoET&P
 
Luke's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Idiotville, OR
Oddometer: 4,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravityisnotmyfriend View Post
I've got the original owner's handbook. I can post a scan of the electrical diagram up if you'd like to see it.

I did find this '97 version online:
.
It's very close, except in the RR area, mine only has 4 wires going to the RR. The yellow and blue come in from the alternator and the brown and red/white go to the capacitor. There is no extra green one going to the cap.

If adding the cap doesn't fix the problem, then yes that'd be helpful. The '97 diagram looks a bit different to the one I read, it has a different regulator and has a battery.
Luke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 01:00 PM   #191
gravityisnotmyfriend
Beastly Adventurer
 
gravityisnotmyfriend's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: ((kg*m)/s^2), IA, USA
Oddometer: 1,236
Well, adding the old cap didn't fix the problem. But, as it seems to have stopped capacitating, I'm not surprised.

So, studying the schematic, it seems like the battery is hooked up in parallel to the capacitor with the exception of a diode that keep the battery from draining into the capacitor. What if a guy were to remove that diode and remove the capacitor?

That would eliminate the redundancy - but since the bike doesn't need the battery, I don't see it as a big deal. Would the battery take the place of the capacitor and allow the stator to power the lights. The battery would be the filter instead of the capacitor.

Here's my thoughts, and maybe this would be better in a "Bike wiring schematics" demystified thread.

The battery is there to power the parking lights. The diode is there to keep the battery from discharging - so if you've had the bike shut off for a long time, you can still turn on the parking lights.

I guess the part I don't understand is why there's a capacitor in addition to the battery. Why not eliminate the cap all together?

I'm thinking I'll just stop by radio shack tonight and see what they have for capacitors. And if they have nothing appropriate, I'll ride without a headlight this weekend and order one.

But, I'm really tempted to run a jumper from the positive side of the cap to the positive battery post and see what happens.
gravityisnotmyfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 01:56 PM   #192
Luke OP
GPoET&P
 
Luke's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Idiotville, OR
Oddometer: 4,111
[QUOTE=gravityisnotmyfriend;21484417....

So, studying the schematic, it seems like the battery is hooked up in parallel to the capacitor with the exception of a diode that keep the battery from draining into the capacitor. What if a guy were to remove that diode and remove the capacitor?
...[/QUOTE]

That would probably work. The only drawback I see is that if you were to leave the headlight on when the motor is off the battery would be drained very quickly. Probably 5 minutes. Even less if the cooling fan is running. Do that a few times and you'll ruin the battery.


The Radio Shack capacitors are ok, but their leads are pretty weak. Solder wires to the leads, wrap them back across the body, and tape/zipty them down so they can't vibrate.
Luke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 02:15 PM   #193
gravityisnotmyfriend
Beastly Adventurer
 
gravityisnotmyfriend's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: ((kg*m)/s^2), IA, USA
Oddometer: 1,236
The only thing that a Radio shack capacitor has going for it is that I may be able to pick one up tonight after work. If they don't have something big enough, I'll go ahead and order one with the screw on terminals.

I do like the idea of soldering wires and taping/ziptying them to the case. I'll have to do something to make the can big enough to fit in the rubber holder for the old cap anyway.

It sounds like a good night to have a beer and work on the bike. I hope Radio Shack has something in stock.
gravityisnotmyfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 06:13 AM   #194
gravityisnotmyfriend
Beastly Adventurer
 
gravityisnotmyfriend's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: ((kg*m)/s^2), IA, USA
Oddometer: 1,236
The local radio shack failed to deliver. The biggest cap they have is a 4700 uF 15V. I'll just get one on order. Looks like I'm riding in the dark tomorrow I'll disconnect the RR just to be safe.
gravityisnotmyfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2013, 06:20 AM   #195
gravityisnotmyfriend
Beastly Adventurer
 
gravityisnotmyfriend's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Location: ((kg*m)/s^2), IA, USA
Oddometer: 1,236
Just wanted to wrap this up. The bad capacitor was indeed the source of my problems. I ordered a 10,000uf 35V unit from Digi-key.com at less than 1/10th the price of the KTM unit. I finally got around to wiring it up last night. Headlight is working great! I did a quick test drive in the dark last night and was able to bring her to work this morning!

Thanks for all the advice, Luke!
gravityisnotmyfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 10:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014