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Old 11-13-2012, 05:13 AM   #196
roger 04 rt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred flintstone View Post
If only we could use our powers for good instead of evil.

Speaking of which all this great discussion of wideband sensors talking to motronics has me wondering the following:

If the steptoe jumper mod for catless really is for no cat, then all the voltage oscillation to keep a cat happy should be missing, yes? And then I was wondering what purpose adaptation of any kind would have on an OEM catless map and if there were one would it differ from a catted adaptation. Maybe just for e10 vs no e. It sure would be nice to have a way to read the full motrocinc map(s) as opposed to guessing.

Very curious to hear what the dynojet folks come back with on all this. I'd be very surprised to hear all the motronic adaptation is somehow left on. Pretty sure that all the closed loop happens inside the PCIII, if not getting an adaptive loop inside the motronic to work under those cicumstances would be challenging. And getting different fuel tables working in the PCIII with closed loop + adaptation happening inside the motronic would be even more difficult.

Since this is in the GS section I wonder if any other 1150 engine BMW folks are running the PCIII wideband and have info. Searching the web I did not find much talk. I think now that used prices of these PCIII's have gotten to the point that they are cheaper than LC1 or comparable to booster plugs and similar, maybe some more folks should look into them. It was literally plug and play for me, 1 hr job tops including tank & exhaust removal/reinstall for an amazing improvement with substantial open ended future tuning capability.

Ian I can't remember if you are running a Y-pipe or not.
Hi FF,
You raise very good questions. The maps inside the Motronic are visible if you have an O2 data logger like the LC-1. I've run various coding plugs and ridden my bike in closed and open loop. I don't remember if I tried the 87a-only map. I can't find any signs that there is a NO-CAT map for the 1150 and I've been looking for one. All the maps I've tried seem to be for 14.7:1 with Closed Loop enabled. Later today I will specifically test 87a-only to see if the Motronic goes into Closed Loop and will report back.

For the PC to Motronic connection there are two possibilities. 1) They send a simulated narrowband signal to the Motronic. 2) They don't send that signal. For condition 1) the Motronic will Adapt and there is no mechanism for the PC to stop Adaptation. For condition 2) the Motronic will default to limp home mode and send a 10% fueling variation pulse stream. I'm start to believe that case 1) is more likely but I am waiting to hear from Dynojet. I agree that case 1) seems like it would present a challenging Adaptation scenario. Lets wait and see.

Going back to the 87a-plug, Steptoe never described what it did, only suggested that it was easy, cheap and worked to improve some 1150s. I haven't read anywhere that it was a no cat map. It may be that it affects spark advance more than VE/fueling. I highly doubt it's an E10/no-E map since Adaptation handles the ethanol issue.

Good discussion, thanks.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:55 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
Hi FF,
You raise very good questions. The maps inside the Motronic are visible if you have an O2 data logger like the LC-1. I've run various coding plugs and ridden my bike in closed and open loop. I don't remember if I tried the 87a-only map. I can't find any signs that there is a NO-CAT map for the 1150 and I've been looking for one. All the maps I've tried seem to be for 14.7:1 with Closed Loop enabled. Later today I will specifically test 87a-only to see if the Motronic goes into Closed Loop and will report back.

For the PC to Motronic connection there are two possibilities. 1) They send a simulated narrowband signal to the Motronic. 2) They don't send that signal. For condition 1) the Motronic will Adapt and there is no mechanism for the PC to stop Adaptation. For condition 2) the Motronic will default to limp home mode and send a 10% fueling variation pulse stream. I'm start to believe that case 1) is more likely but I am waiting to hear from Dynojet. I agree that case 1) seems like it would present a challenging Adaptation scenario. Lets wait and see.

Going back to the 87a-plug, Steptoe never described what it did, only suggested that it was easy, cheap and worked to improve some 1150s. I haven't read anywhere that it was a no cat map. It may be that it affects spark advance more than VE/fueling. I highly doubt it's an E10/no-E map since Adaptation handles the ethanol issue.

Good discussion, thanks.
Hi Roger,
Quick response, in the middle of something. See posts #28 & 29 in this thread for the 30-87a jumper description for non-cat. It is labelled as R1100 in #29 diagram but later on Steptoe and maybe Poolside elaborated that it also applied to no cat on 1150 models and in a more noticeable way.

More later.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:19 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
Hi FF,
You raise very good questions. The maps inside the Motronic are visible if you have an O2 data logger like the LC-1. I've run various coding plugs and ridden my bike in closed and open loop. I don't remember if I tried the 87a-only map. I can't find any signs that there is a NO-CAT map for the 1150 and I've been looking for one. All the maps I've tried seem to be for 14.7:1 with Closed Loop enabled. Later today I will specifically test 87a-only to see if the Motronic goes into Closed Loop and will report back.

For the PC to Motronic connection there are two possibilities. 1) They send a simulated narrowband signal to the Motronic. 2) They don't send that signal. For condition 1) the Motronic will Adapt and there is no mechanism for the PC to stop Adaptation. For condition 2) the Motronic will default to limp home mode and send a 10% fueling variation pulse stream. I'm start to believe that case 1) is more likely but I am waiting to hear from Dynojet. I agree that case 1) seems like it would present a challenging Adaptation scenario. Lets wait and see.

Going back to the 87a-plug, Steptoe never described what it did, only suggested that it was easy, cheap and worked to improve some 1150s. I haven't read anywhere that it was a no cat map. It may be that it affects spark advance more than VE/fueling. I highly doubt it's an E10/no-E map since Adaptation handles the ethanol issue.

Good discussion, thanks.
Do you mean you can read the entire 3-d map inside the motronic? I don't think so. I think you may be able to log some I/O parameters and O2 sensor voltage but getting the map itself off the unit needs some expensive hardware to read. Just to get terminology and function straight, here is a nice write up:

http://www.bikeboy.org/fuelinjection.html

By map switching via jumper mods, I assume it means there are different 3-d tables of spark vs rpm vs TPS already loaded into the motronic, that are jumper select-able (8 of them) . That is the map(s) I'd like to read. Then there are the trim tables. The trim tables are where adaptation takes place [the base maps are hard coded (to my understanding)] and where the closed loop operation of the motronic is carried out.

I THINK that the PCIII with a plug into the stock O2 harness is designed to disable most or all of the adaptation going on in the trim tables, AND all of the closed loop. BTW If what is said in the link is true then the PCIII closed loop operation area is much larger than the OEM. I have not played with the PCIII enough to see if you can make closed loop area larger or not.

We have not said this explicitly but clearly the OEM O2 sensor is also used to move parameters around in the trim tables so that open loop operation is affected (for e10 for example). I might also add here that the reason one wants/needs a different base 3-d map is that the adjustments in the trim tables are limited to a max % up or down, that is they use O2 sensor output to tweak the setting up to a fixed amount above or below the 3-d map. So if a 3-d map is way off actual VE characteristics, due to mods (like no cat or cams pistons etc.) it could not move to optimal an won't be able to hit say 13.8 or whatever the target was. This is likely a very slow process relatively to closed loop corrections.

What would be interesting is if the PCIII still uses the richer AFR target of 13.8 to adjust the open loop trim (i.e. still running some open loop adaptation), or even some subset of it, yet runs its own (maybe larger than OEM) closed loop area native on the PCIII.

Another way of saying this is maybe there is a fast closed loop and a very slow closed loop native operation of the motronic. The fast closed loop is real time depending on dynamic conditions (analogous to the gray area on the PCIII map) and the slow is gradual updating of the "adaptation" of trim tables for the "open loop" operation of the controller.

Surprising how little there is out there about how this all works, either the motronic or the PCIII for that matter.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:43 AM   #199
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One more point and I will shut up (and get back to work!). The PCIII works by essentially adding a completely separate set of trim tables, at the injectors. It must read TPS and rpm directly, and then with some internal knowledge of the motronic map ads or subtracts % to the injector pulse width. This is why I think it needs to disable most/all adaptation, the two tables would be cross talking. Once adaptation is disabled, the fixed PCIII trim table would act as a updated 3-d base map, and then closed loop operation could work on that. It makes no sense to try to implement closed loop operation otherwise but what do I know. BTW I suspect this is what happened on the older PCIII's, and why they came out with the O2 simulator plugs. They either (wrongly) assumed open loop adaptation was disabled when it wasn't or it was so slow they did not see it happening on their product development dyno sessions.

Those O2 plugs arrived for my other bikes, they are just a plug with two resistors across the four O2 sensor leads. If we get any kind of thaw going I am eager to install them and see what happens.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:07 AM   #200
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On my lunch break I built a Coding Plug jumper to try out the 87a-30 mod. The motorcycle was cold and I connected to the LC-1 datalogger port for AFR and attached the GS-911. I ran from cold to fully warmed up and logged all GS-911 and LC-1 data. Here are the results:

1) At the four minute mark, the Motronic went into stable Closed Loop operation in the same way it does with the Pink Plug (30-87-87a.

2) The shape of the cold-start through warm-up enrichment phase was identical to the Pink plug. However, the 30-87a jumper was 10% LEANER than the Pink plug. Surprise!

3) I did not evaluate spark timing between the two yet.

Although I am running these tests on an '04RT, I think that it is fair to say that the 30-87a map is leaner that 30-87-87a on any '04 R1150.

When I get a half hour, I'd like to make some observations of your (Fred F) prior two posts which raise some interesting topics.

RB
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:06 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
On my lunch break I built a Coding Plug jumper to try out the 87a-30 mod. The motorcycle was cold and I connected to the LC-1 datalogger port for AFR and attached the GS-911. I ran from cold to fully warmed up and logged all GS-911 and LC-1 data. Here are the results:

1) At the four minute mark, the Motronic went into stable Closed Loop operation in the same way it does with the Pink Plug (30-87-87a.

2) The shape of the cold-start through warm-up enrichment phase was identical to the Pink plug. However, the 30-87a jumper was 10% LEANER than the Pink plug. Surprise!

3) I did not evaluate spark timing between the two yet.

Although I am running these tests on an '04RT, I think that it is fair to say that the 30-87a map is leaner that 30-87-87a on any '04 R1150.

When I get a half hour, I'd like to make some observations of your (Fred F) prior two posts which raise some interesting topics.

RB
Monsieur le Canoehead (Ian) also reported that the 30-87a jumper mod did little for his GS. He also has a twin spark late model 1150 (06 GSA?). I have a single plug 2002 and it made a very noticeable difference.

As far as lean vs 30-87-87a, I am wondering if any prior adaptation was reset upon switching to 30-87a and whether you need to compare initial readings from two maps that have started with a reset motronic (wiped adaptation) to be sure of what is going on. This points out the difficulty of not having direct access to the motronic maps and registers, and trying to infer what is going on just from I/O.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:09 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred flintstone View Post

I THINK that the PCIII with a plug into the stock O2 harness is designed to disable most or all of the adaptation going on in the trim tables, AND all of the closed loop. BTW If what is said in the link is true then the PCIII closed loop operation area is much larger than the OEM. I have not played with the PCIII enough to see if you can make closed loop area larger or not.


What would be interesting is if the PCIII still uses the richer AFR target of 13.8 to adjust the open loop trim (i.e. still running some open loop adaptation), or even some subset of it, yet runs its own (maybe larger than OEM) closed loop area native on the PCIII.

Surprising how little there is out there about how this all works, either the motronic or the PCIII for that matter.
I think the PCIII simply sends a constant 14.7 signal to the Motronic otherwise, as noted, they would be fighting each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
On my lunch break I built a Coding Plug jumper to try out the 87a-30 mod. The motorcycle was cold and I connected to the LC-1 datalogger port for AFR and attached the GS-911. I ran from cold to fully warmed up and logged all GS-911 and LC-1 data. Here are the results:

1) At the four minute mark, the Motronic went into stable Closed Loop operation in the same way it does with the Pink Plug (30-87-87a.

2) The shape of the cold-start through warm-up enrichment phase was identical to the Pink plug. However, the 30-87a jumper was 10% LEANER than the Pink plug. Surprise!

3) I did not evaluate spark timing between the two yet.

Although I am running these tests on an '04RT, I think that it is fair to say that the 30-87a map is leaner that 30-87-87a on any '04 R1150.

When I get a half hour, I'd like to make some observations of your (Fred F) prior two posts which raise some interesting topics.

RB

Quote:
Originally Posted by fred flintstone View Post
Monsieur le Canoehead (Ian) also reported that the 30-87a jumper mod did little for his GS. He also has a twin spark late model 1150 (06 GSA?). I have a single plug 2002 and it made a very noticeable difference.

As far as lean vs 30-87-87a, I am wondering if any prior adaptation was reset upon switching to 30-87a and whether you need to compare initial readings from two maps that have started with a reset motronic (wiped adaptation) to be sure of what is going on. This points out the difficulty of not having direct access to the motronic maps and registers, and trying to infer what is going on just from I/O.
My bike is a 2005 1150 GSA in the much faster black color.

My bike came with no code plug at all from the factory, so that would be another option to try out. Doing the Steptoe jumper made no discernible difference from stock. It has been reported before that the Canadian models have different maps than the US models but I have no idea how to validate this other than compare the two side by side. Canadian models do have different paint than the US models and the Enduro box was standard on Canadian GSA's, so the ECU calibration may well also be different.

The motronic version in the dual spark is different than the single spark, so the jumper settings and their impacts may also be different.

I was also wondering if the closed loop tables could be extended but I don't see any way (of course I didn't hook the computer up to the ECU so some menus may become enabled when hooked up).

My bike did not surge until I dumped the stock pipe for a stubby (I still have the cat). Then it started to surge slightly and pop on overrun, which is why I got the PCIII. I installed the stubby so I could run a full size Jesse on the left side of the bike. A sweet benefit was the loss of 10 lbs of weight although I think I put that much on in one weekend of visiting you guys in Colorado!

BTW, the correct translation of my nom-de-plume is Monsieur Bateau-Tete!
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:06 PM   #203
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Hi guys, Some comments below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by fred flintstone View Post
Monsieur le Canoehead (Ian) also reported that the 30-87a jumper mod did little for his GS. He also has a twin spark late model 1150 (06 GSA?). I have a single plug 2002 and it made a very noticeable difference.

As far as lean vs 30-87-87a, I am wondering if any prior adaptation was reset upon switching to 30-87a and whether you need to compare initial readings from two maps that have started with a reset motronic (wiped adaptation) to be sure of what is going on. This points out the difficulty of not having direct access to the motronic maps and registers, and trying to infer what is going on just from I/O.
My test method is consistent between the two plugs. Today's test was nothing new for me and there is no unwanted influence from Adaptation. As I mentioned, I haven't measured the spark table although I did take some spark data. The times in the 30-87a table are for certain 10% leaner than 30-87-87a.

I've also run the test on no plug and it is leaner too. It was on of the first things I tried a year ago.

At this point I feel like I've coaxed out most of the MA 2.4's secrets. I'm not looking for the tables of injection times for two reasons: 1) You can't change them; and 2) In order for the injection times to have meaning you need to know how much air is filing the cylinder (VE). Rather than have the tables, I've taken AFR data over many TPSs, RPMs and loads. The result is I've got a solid picture of warm up enrichment, Open Loop, Closed Loop, WOT and partial throttle acceleration AFRs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canoehead View Post
I think the PCIII simply sends a constant 14.7 signal to the Motronic otherwise, as noted, they would be fighting each other.

My bike is a 2005 1150 GSA in the much faster black color.

My bike came with no code plug at all from the factory, so that would be another option to try out. Doing the Steptoe jumper made no discernible difference from stock. It has been reported before that the Canadian models have different maps than the US models but I have no idea how to validate this other than compare the two side by side. Canadian models do have different paint than the US models and the Enduro box was standard on Canadian GSA's, so the ECU calibration may well also be different.

The motronic version in the dual spark is different than the single spark, so the jumper settings and their impacts may also be different.

I was also wondering if the closed loop tables could be extended but I don't see any way (of course I didn't hook the computer up to the ECU so some menus may become enabled when hooked up).

My bike did not surge until I dumped the stock pipe for a stubby (I still have the cat). Then it started to surge slightly and pop on overrun, which is why I got the PCIII. I installed the stubby so I could run a full size Jesse on the left side of the bike. A sweet benefit was the loss of 10 lbs of weight although I think I put that much on in one weekend of visiting you guys in Colorado!

BTW, the correct translation of my nom-de-plume is Monsieur Bateau-Tete!
There isn't really a voltage that corresponds to 14.7. I've had a 90% response from Dynojet but need a couple more details.

The fuel tables in the single and dual spark are highly likely to be the same since the engine mechanics and VE are the same. However, the spark tables might well be different. As I mentioned above, no plug is leaner than pink.

The Dynojet person I'm communicating with said that the shaded area is set by them and is there guess at what the Motronic does. I don't think the user can change it.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:16 AM   #204
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What a great discussion this is turning out to be. Roger have you ever put your bike on a dyno and tried to tune it using the LC1? I am thinking that may be the definitive next step in this for me as well, maybe next spring.

Eager to hear what the dynojet folks say about all this.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:51 AM   #205
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The fuel tables in the single and dual spark are highly likely to be the same since the engine mechanics and VE are the same. However, the spark tables might well be different. As I mentioned above, no plug is leaner than pink.
This just occurred to me although it is perhaps too early for clear thinking. What you say about VE is true but as far as I know this is not a MAF FI system, so it would not surprise me to find that fuel tables for a single vs dual spark based just on TPS & RPM are different. More complete combustion, different flow characteristics & combustion chamber shape to stuff in a second spark plug etc. In addition to the spark tables obviously being different. If the tables were based on direct measurement of air mass then you'd probably be right.

In any case in this very thread if you read from the beginning many people with single spark 1150's do the 30-87a jumper mod and get richer running and no more pinging (that is what this thread is allegedly about), while people with twin spark don't. And people with 1100's don't get as much benefit though they get some. No one is measuring AFR's like you are but the anecdotal evidence is that 30-87a map is very good for 1150 single spark. Nowhere near as good as a wideband set to 13.8 though.

In my case I was getting very bad pinging but also had a Y-pipe I hoped to install. I knew the Y-pipe would lean it out even more so I wanted to solve the pinging first. Then I read this thread and saw there was a map for no cat, and did both mods at once (I know...bad science). No pinging at all for couple of years until the ride Ian and I were on that prompted a discussion about wideband PCIII's.

Clearly the one thing common across single and dual spark of any year, regardless of implementation method is putting a wideband sensor on and running 13.8 AFR as you did with the LC1 and we did with the PCIII is a Good Thing. The improvement is just astonishing and if it weren't so damn cold outside I'd be trying all kinds of variations on it already.

The one tweak I will do before much more is add some kind of slip-on to replace the factory muffler, waiting for a cheap one to show up somewhere.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:28 AM   #206
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The VE for 1150 single spark vs dual spark could certainly be different. I would not think as much as 10% though. The only real way to know is to attach an afr logger and measure it. I know you can log afr with the PC V but don't think the PC III has that capability, does it?

Everyone says that a Y pipe leans out the 1150 but I would love to see an afr plot that confirms how much it does and at what RPMs. Exhaust systems are tuned compromises. Sometimes, and at some RPMs, the cylinder filling (VE) is reduced by freer flowing exhausts. The example that comes to mind is a tuned system that sends a negative pressure wave back that reduces pressure just before the intake valve opens allowing more air to enter. Anyway, seeing an afr plot would illuminate things a lot.

My next step probably won't be the dyno. I already know that I can get further mid-range gains by dropping the afr to 13.5:1. I know this because my bike runs just a bit stronger in the minute before it goes into Closed Loop at 13.8. In that last minute, the afr is 13.5 and I can accelerate in 5th from about 2100-2200 RPM. Post closed loop its a couple hundred RPMs higher. And of course this makes sense because I'm still climbing the afr curve.

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Old 11-14-2012, 05:49 PM   #207
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I've heard back from Dynojet but am still waiting for clarification on a couple of points.

In the meantime I've compared the ignition angle, dwell angle and injector on-time during a warm-up interval. Coincidentally the air temp, oil temp and barometric pressure were quite close on the two days which makes the data easier to look through.

To summarize:

--AFRs look to be 8-10% leaner on 30-87a
--Injector On-times are shorter by roughly the same amount (confirms AFR readings)

Now for the surprise:
--30-87-87a Ignition Angle during Warm-up about 6 degrees. Dwell angle about 14/15 degrees (checked a few different test runs)

--30-87a Ignition Angle about 8 degrees. Dwell angle about 23/24 degrees.

I don't know how much this difference this change of spark timing and dwell angle make but the difference is there and real. I haven't done a full test run over a course on this, just a warm-up test on the centerstand so I don't know how the timing would vary in other parts of the spark map.

Although all the cat converter R1150s are looking for 14.7:1 in Closed Loop (stock sensor) no matter which Coding Plug you use, the Spark Timing maps (which are Open Loop because there is no Knock Sensor) vary greatly between these two maps.

RB
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:34 AM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
I've heard back from Dynojet but am still waiting for clarification on a couple of points.

In the meantime I've compared the ignition angle, dwell angle and injector on-time during a warm-up interval. Coincidentally the air temp, oil temp and barometric pressure were quite close on the two days which makes the data easier to look through.

To summarize:

--AFRs look to be 8-10% leaner on 30-87a
--Injector On-times are shorter by roughly the same amount (confirms AFR readings)

Now for the surprise:
--30-87-87a Ignition Angle during Warm-up about 6 degrees. Dwell angle about 14/15 degrees (checked a few different test runs)

--30-87a Ignition Angle about 8 degrees. Dwell angle about 23/24 degrees.

I don't know how much this difference this change of spark timing and dwell angle make but the difference is there and real. I haven't done a full test run over a course on this, just a warm-up test on the centerstand so I don't know how the timing would vary in other parts of the spark map.

Although all the cat converter R1150s are looking for 14.7:1 in Closed Loop (stock sensor) no matter which Coding Plug you use, the Spark Timing maps (which are Open Loop because there is no Knock Sensor) vary greatly between these two maps.

RB
This is very interesting. By ignition angle do you mean ignition advance @ idle? What may be going on here is map 30-87-87a on a twin spark is the ONLY true twin spark map on your motronic, so that jumpering 30-87a you are actually running an old single spark map on a dual spark ignition system if that makes sense. While on a single spark the 30-87-87a is a single spark map and jumpering 30-87a gets you an appropriate catless map, or at least one which makes 1150's run somewhat richer.

It would not surprise me that ignition curves are very different for twin vs single spark, it surprises me more that a single spark map of any kind would even run on a twin spark motor (if indeed that is the case). There are so many things in the trim tables and base maps that could be different between these motors' 30-87-87a maps, no one really knows what is going on. By that I mean you could run 30-87a on your twin spark and it runs lean while (obviously) others with single spark run the same map and it is rich. The only definitive way to test that is to run your LC1 set up (or similar) on a single spark motor and compare readings from the two maps.

Or get a friggin' code manual for this motronic which seems to be impossible for some reason.

Good stuff.
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:47 AM   #209
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Your explanation of twin spark vs single might make sense for spark timing (advance) and dwell but for mixture I don't think so. The AFR is leaner because the injection time is shorter, see my last post.

The only way to know is to put an afr logger on a single spark.

The other possibilities are that 30-87a is for limp home, or smaller engine, or its an "illegal" map whose data is used to drive the secondary plugs.

30-87a doesn't show up as an 1150 map in any documents I've seen. And the single and twin spark bikes seem to use the same plugs. Maybe there is some lower octane data stored.s

When you add an LC-1 in addition to richen you get the benefit of a great diagnostic data logger. You really know what's going on. Couple with a GS-911 you can probe things pretty well.

I know a few guys at Bosch in Stuttgart. I don't think I'll be seeing code though, any time soon. ;) ;)

roger 04 rt screwed with this post 11-15-2012 at 04:30 AM
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:30 AM   #210
fred flintstone
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
Your explanation of twin spark vs single might make sense for spark timing (advance) and dwell but for mixture I don't think so. The AFR is leaner because the injection time is shorter, see my last post.

The only way to know is to put an afr logger on a single spark.

The other possibilities are that 30-87a is for limp home, or smaller engine, or its an "illegal" map whose data is used to drive the secondary plugs.

30-87a doesn't show up as an 1150 map in any documents I've seen. And the single and twin spark bikes seem to use the same plugs. Maybe there is some lower octane data stored.s

When you add an LC-1 in addition to richen you get the benefit of a great diagnostic data logger. You really know what's going on. Couple with a GS-911 you can probe things pretty well.

I know a few guys at Bosch in Stuttgart. I don't think I'll be seeing code though, any time soon. ;) ;)
Roger,
I understand that 30-87a runs leaner on your bike and that your measurements confirm it, I am not disputing that. It runs richer on mine and most other folks with single spark. As I said earlier and you repeated, one way to confirm is to datalog a single spark 30-87-87a vs 30-87a.

There is some speculation by Steptoe and others earlier in this thread as to why 30-87a seems to work well on single spark 1150's.

I would definitely like some data logging capability like the LC1 offers, but for general tuning purposes I think the dynojet is far more flexible. There is a AFR gauge module for the dynojet. I have been looking for one used, I do not think it has logging capability though. I may be able to interface the AFR gauge socket somehow on the PCIII harness and get some data.

Looking forward to hearing what the dynojet people say.

AJ

edit: OK dammit in the interest of science I just ordered a new AFR gauge and will be able to at least visually inspect AFR with different 1150 single spark maps. Though likely that the only riding I will be doing is on my new snowblower.

fred flintstone screwed with this post 11-15-2012 at 05:49 AM
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