ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-28-2009, 08:54 AM   #826
Wattner
Beastly Adventurer
 
Wattner's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Treasure Coast, Florida
Oddometer: 5,222
Have you checked KTM talk and Thumpertalk? May be a source there. The KTM Talk guys are pretty resourceful... I bet you could get the motor gone through for less than $2500.00. I will be using Thumper Racing when it is time for a new 540 piston and stainless valves.

Good luck!!!

Wattner screwed with this post 10-28-2009 at 09:05 AM
Wattner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 10:20 AM   #827
GR0NK
Got some screws loose!
 
GR0NK's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: In the Valley of Bomb Runs...
Oddometer: 1,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by header
How cheap do you think I could find a decent (engine is in good working order, maybe a couple actual wrecks, beat up plastics. Basically as long as the engine works well and has everything mechanically working) ktm525exc. Early model nothing new. Only thing I would really want is a dualsport kit already on it.

How cheap do you think I could find one like that? I know they have been out a while but I dont know what the depreciation rate would be for something other than a jap bike.
KTMTalk is your friend. Most everybody who rides orange is there so there is quite a selection in the classifieds.

As far as price, I found my 01 520SX for $2200 here in Ontario Canada. It needed nothing and I raced it all summer on our local MX track. Look around, the deals are there.


Sean
__________________
Team Valley Bomb Squad

Nullus Vereor ex Terra Incognita
GR0NK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 05:43 PM   #828
Stu
Buffo Maximus
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Eastern YahooLand
Oddometer: 916
Oil Coolers

In answer to the question raised about oil coolers I would add that my experience has been that the Joe Racer product is OK but that the H-T Racing oil cooler really does the job and has the advertised oil capacity. I switched to the H-T cooler and have had great luck with it including extended oil changes with the least probability of old oil being retained in the sysem.

Stu
Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 08:33 PM   #829
ADVJake
***** dweller
 
ADVJake's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oddometer: 4,341
How do the 525s handle WOT running for extended periods?

I use to do this on my XR650R fairly often, kept up with the 950s no issues
But, a 525 is a fairly different engine in that its not overbuilt to handle that abuse.
the 2 rings on the pistons, and titanium valves.

the valves we can switch to stainless, but how often do the rings need replacing for "open" type riding?
__________________
"And some guy said, let there be filtering, and we filtered and we saw that it was good, and hours became minutes..."
ADVJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 10:27 AM   #830
Hayduke
///SAFETY THIRD///
 
Hayduke's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Salida, coloRADo
Oddometer: 43,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by header
How cheap do you think I could find a decent (engine is in good working order, maybe a couple actual wrecks, beat up plastics. Basically as long as the engine works well and has everything mechanically working) ktm525exc. Early model nothing new. Only thing I would really want is a dualsport kit already on it.

How cheap do you think I could find one like that? I know they have been out a while but I dont know what the depreciation rate would be for something other than a jap bike.

I paid $3900 for my '05 525exc with d/s kit, 64 hours on it, lots of aftermarket goodies.

A friend recently payed $3500 for a stock XR400, so I felt like it was a decent deal, but I've seen quite a few out there for around that.
__________________
"What these people need is some mental psychology."-Bonnie Abbzug

Hayduke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 08:35 PM   #831
LILBIT
Ride you must.
 
LILBIT's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Lake Placid, FL
Oddometer: 1,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVJake
But, a 525 is a fairly different engine in that its not overbuilt to handle that abuse.
the 2 rings on the pistons, and titanium valves.

the valves we can switch to stainless, but how often do the rings need replacing for "open" type riding?
The 525 ExC and MXC have SS valves. Only the SX has TI.

2 rings? Same ring set up as your 650.
LILBIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 09:25 PM   #832
GR0NK
Got some screws loose!
 
GR0NK's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: In the Valley of Bomb Runs...
Oddometer: 1,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by LILBIT
The 525 ExC and MXC have SS valves. Only the SX has TI.

2 rings? Same ring set up as your 650.
Yup, 1 compression ring and 1 oil scrapper.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVJake
How do the 525s handle WOT running for extended periods?

I use to do this on my XR650R fairly often, kept up with the 950s no issues
But, a 525 is a fairly different engine in that its not overbuilt to handle that abuse.
the 2 rings on the pistons, and titanium valves.

the valves we can switch to stainless, but how often do the rings need replacing for "open" type riding?

WOT is not really a problem with proper gearing. My stock 05 525EXC can only pull about 8400-8500rpm in top gear with 14/52 gearing. The rev limiter kicks in at 9800rpm so I have some buffer there. It went 280 hours until I had to replace the piston and rings. That was about 11 500 kms on the odo at the time.

The problem with the big RFS motors is not RPM, it's the load. On dirt you'll never have a issue but for the 525 and up in Sumo trim, the traction puts a hurt on the crank and it spreads at high rpm. Ball bearing mains are immune to this but the stock mains are roller bearings. These last forever in a dirt environment but they can't handle the torsional load from the crank spreading. The edge gets pinched, the surface starts flaking hardened metal and really bad things happen after that. But that's the life of a raced engine. DSed and trail ridden bikes last a very long time with just regular maintenance.

All in all, the RFS motors are some of the stoutest motors ever designed.



Sean
__________________
Team Valley Bomb Squad

Nullus Vereor ex Terra Incognita
GR0NK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 11:12 PM   #833
ADVJake
***** dweller
 
ADVJake's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oddometer: 4,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by GR0NK
Yup, 1 compression ring and 1 oil scrapper.

WOT is not really a problem with proper gearing. My stock 05 525EXC can only pull about 8400-8500rpm in top gear with 14/52 gearing. The rev limiter kicks in at 9800rpm so I have some buffer there. It went 280 hours until I had to replace the piston and rings. That was about 11 500 kms on the odo at the time.

The problem with the big RFS motors is not RPM, it's the load. On dirt you'll never have a issue but for the 525 and up in Sumo trim, the traction puts a hurt on the crank and it spreads at high rpm. Ball bearing mains are immune to this but the stock mains are roller bearings. These last forever in a dirt environment but they can't handle the torsional load from the crank spreading. The edge gets pinched, the surface starts flaking hardened metal and really bad things happen after that. But that's the life of a raced engine. DSed and trail ridden bikes last a very long time with just regular maintenance.

All in all, the RFS motors are some of the stoutest motors ever designed.



Sean
cheers for that, for some reason i thought the RFS had 1 less ring than the 650, so thats good to know.
Is it a popular mod to change the RFS crank to ball bearing? any downside to that?
__________________
"And some guy said, let there be filtering, and we filtered and we saw that it was good, and hours became minutes..."
ADVJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2009, 04:02 AM   #834
stevh0
Super Retard.
 
stevh0's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Cape Town, ZA
Oddometer: 1,414
Id say forget about using the 525 as an all out lightweight adventure bike.

Unless you want to rebuild the motor, every 6-10 000miles

To me the Wr and 525 is probably one of the best suited hardcore enduro bikes that can be dropped into adventure riding duty. Ive heard of 20k motors, but mine ran a big end recently and im not really chuffed with that.

Surely the oil cooler will help. But the 525 is a still an open desert racer with 600mile service intervals.

I would say, keep the 690, but after i rode the Wr and then the 690, the 690 is a piggy pig... the 525 is an awesome choice with the added 6th gear.


what about the TE610? are they too tame?
__________________
06 950S
Yamaha YZ250WR
Ex 1150GS, 650R, Ex 950SE, Ex 950ADV
Ex SM610, FS570, WR450, Africa Twin(s)
stevh0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2009, 06:48 AM   #835
LILBIT
Ride you must.
 
LILBIT's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Lake Placid, FL
Oddometer: 1,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevh0
Id say forget about using the 525 as an all out lightweight adventure bike.

Unless you want to rebuild the motor, every 6-10 000mile

Surely the oil cooler will help. But the 525 is a still an open desert racer with 600mile service intervals.
Anything can happen but in general you are mistaken. MANY bikes have gone well over 20,000 miles with a stock top end. Some 30,000+. If harder valves are installed valve adjustment intervals go way down.
LILBIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2009, 09:52 AM   #836
GR0NK
Got some screws loose!
 
GR0NK's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: In the Valley of Bomb Runs...
Oddometer: 1,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVJake
cheers for that, for some reason i thought the RFS had 1 less ring than the 650, so thats good to know.
Is it a popular mod to change the RFS crank to ball bearing? any downside to that?
Well there is no such thing as a free lunch. It has pros and cons. The pros of the ball bearings mains (which incidentally that is what KTM puts in the XC4 motor like the 530) is that they resist crank spread and last much longer at sustained loads and sustained RPMs. The cons is that they are much less tolerant of abrasives, like dust and sand. Bikes that are used off-road are much better off with the roller bearings because they spread the load along a much bigger area and can tolerate the abrasives that invariably end up inside the motor. Spherical bearings keep functioning properly at all working angles but they have a relatively small contact area. Ball bearing also have less frictional drag.

It is popular to have them changed when building a motor bigger than a 540. The bigger the engine, the more load is put on the crank and the more it will want to spread at high RPMs under load. For anything less than a raced 540, there is hardly a need to do the mod. A 525 that gets bounced off the rev limiter occasionally is not at a great risk unless it's on the street where there is plenty of traction.


Sean
__________________
Team Valley Bomb Squad

Nullus Vereor ex Terra Incognita
GR0NK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2009, 10:04 AM   #837
GR0NK
Got some screws loose!
 
GR0NK's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: In the Valley of Bomb Runs...
Oddometer: 1,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by LILBIT
Anything can happen but in general you are mistaken. MANY bikes have gone well over 20,000 miles with a stock top end. Some 30,000+. If harder valves are installed valve adjustment intervals go way down.
I have to agree. It has been my experience that the RFS bikes are very capable lightweight adventure bikes. With the sole addition of a comfortable seat and a big fuel tank you can transform the race nature into something you can ride for a whole day. YMMV.



For a bike that I have trail-ridden, Dual-Sported on 1000km+ trips and even raced at the local MX track, I am pretty happy that it went 11 000 kms before needing a top-end. Had I not wrung it out at the track, that engine would likely still be going strong. I bought myself a dedicated track bike so we'll see how long it goes just doing trails and treks.


Sean
__________________
Team Valley Bomb Squad

Nullus Vereor ex Terra Incognita
GR0NK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2009, 10:20 AM   #838
Wattner
Beastly Adventurer
 
Wattner's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Treasure Coast, Florida
Oddometer: 5,222
I'll jump on my '07 525 anytime and will not hesitate to go on a 14-16 hour day, then do it again the next day.... I have the EE tall soft seat that I took a bread knife and cut just the top rounded section of the foam out to create a flat top, thus eliminating the "cheek spread" if you will. I have major ass issues with comfort, I flipped a wheelie tears ago and tore my ass up bad, and it still hurts. The seat mod I have made is FANTASTIC!!!!

I have a 650L with a bunch of mods that I use for rides with mainly street with a little dirt, and the 525 gets the nod with much dirt at all.

I can roll along at 70-75 mph all day then do goat trails. I can't imagine a better suited bike for the riding I do. I actually sold my GSA after a long Mexico ride after getting back on the street legal dirt bikes with streetable tires, as they are WAY more fun. If I was to do another 6-8k mile ride, I would opt for the 950 Se, but I will take the 525 on anything shorter than that.

With gearing and oil changes, the thing just clicks along.... I am a DIE hard XR guy, but KTM built the XR beater for sure
Wattner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2009, 02:19 PM   #839
G600
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Iceland
Oddometer: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by GR0NK
I have to agree. It has been my experience that the RFS bikes are very capable lightweight adventure bikes. With the sole addition of a comfortable seat and a big fuel tank you can transform the race nature into something you can ride for a whole day. YMMV.



For a bike that I have trail-ridden, Dual-Sported on 1000km+ trips and even raced at the local MX track, I am pretty happy that it went 11 000 kms before needing a top-end. Had I not wrung it out at the track, that engine would likely still be going strong. I bought myself a dedicated track bike so we'll see how long it goes just doing trails and treks.


Sean

Interesting -- The red thing you sit on... what is in it? Soda bottles? Did you make it yourself? How do you keep it put?
G600 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2009, 03:35 PM   #840
GR0NK
Got some screws loose!
 
GR0NK's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: In the Valley of Bomb Runs...
Oddometer: 1,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by G600
Interesting -- The red thing you sit on... what is in it? Soda bottles? Did you make it yourself? How do you keep it put?
It's my interpretation of the original SweetCheeks. http://cycle-analyst.com/sweetcheeks.htm

I made it myself out of a few old duffle bags and some new similar material. It holds a 2 liter soda bottle on each side and has a zippered pouch on the back that is big enough to hold another 2 liter bottle and more. It is held on by two snap-together clasps at the front which are held by the subframe bolts behind the tank. I usually run a 3" strip of stick-on velcro along the seat to keep it from sliding around but it's not really necessary.

The soda bottles, whether filled with fuel, water or even just air help to support my ass and thighs. Makes for a very comfy saddle.


Sean
__________________
Team Valley Bomb Squad

Nullus Vereor ex Terra Incognita
GR0NK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014