Minimalist Touring Thread (250cc and under)

[Nanabijou]

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

Not sure why, but the TU with the same power, or less, will do 85 mph (actual) on the interstate in traffic. So the XT and TU sound close, with the TU having street tires, being lower (less wind drag?)

I think less drag is an important consideration. And I think it explains why my CBR250R that has 5 less rear-wheel hp and 67 lbs more weight - has about a 3 mph higher top speed than my WR250R. 93 mph vs. 90 mph.

Mike

[ALinUTAH]

Maybe it's tires. Or like I said I ride at higher elevs, mostly over 5k, so that might slow me down more than I realize. I was as low as 1000ft one time last summer and it didn't really feel much different, but I'm jetted down a little so I was a little lean then. Yamaha lists the top speed as 73mph though. I always have full saddlebags too which create a lot of drag. When you are at the limit of the bike that makes a difference.

Last summer I started experimenting with opening the air box a little. It made a big difference while riding around in the woods. But I never got out on the highway. It wouldn't surprise me if I can get another 5mph. That air box is extremely restrictive. Al

[Sierra Thumper]

Originally Posted by ALinUTAH

Maybe it's tires. Or like I said I ride at higher elevs, mostly over 5k, so that might slow me down more than I realize. I was as low as 1000ft one time last summer and it didn't really feel much different, but I'm jetted down a little so I was a little lean then. Yamaha lists the top speed as 73mph though. I always have full saddlebags too which create a lot of drag. When you are at the limit of the bike that makes a difference.

Last summer I started experimenting with opening the air box a little. It made a big difference while riding around in the woods. But I never got out on the highway. It wouldn't surprise me if I can get another 5mph. That air box is extremely restrictive. Al

I live and ride at 5000+ft myself......you take a BIG hp loss at our elevations. The less hp you have to begin with tho, the less you notice the loss from my experience. You lose aproximately 3% of your hp for every 1000ft up you go.....15% of 20hp would be a 3hp loss.....not as noticeable as losing 15% of 170hp, which is 26hp or so. Believe me that you FEEL!

And as far as opening the airbox....if you open it enough it'll make a big difference in throttle response and power, I highly recommend it. You WILL need to jet up accordingly tho. And if you combine opening up the airbox with some well placed cut-outs, and adding a freer flowing exhaust, you'll really feel a difference Best mods I've done to my dirt bikes/dualsports

[Ed@Ford]

Back in the mid 80's I bagged a bunch of passes....very slowly, on my 100% stock Honda XR185. When I went back the next year, I had the same XR, but bored to 205cc, with a big fin Honda ATV cylinder, with 12.5:1 compression ratio and a super trapp exhaust system. It was much nicer, more power, and was very happy with 1/2 and 1/2 regular + premium. At altitude, you need to bump up compression, and lean out the carb. Other great thing about this bike that they ruined the next year, was that from first gear to 6th was a huge spread in ratios. It would creep along at super slow trials speeds over basketball size boulders, but would tolerate 55 mph when necessary....and it weighed 202 pounds

[CMS]

Steve, are you still around haven't seen you on here lately. Do you still have the DR 200? CMS

[ALinUTAH]

I actually think it's the other way around. If you lose 20% off of 16hp you barely have enough to get out of your own way. If you lose 20% from 100hp you still have 80 which is plenty.

The problem I have is that I am up and down so much in a single ride. In a single trip I can be in 10k ft mtns and down to the desert at 4k. What I was doing end of last season was running a #30 main jet (2 sizes down from the stock 35) which feels about right at southern desert elevations with the airbox closed up, then opening the airbox when in the mountains. It's relatively easy to open/close, giving me two different intake settings. If I wanted to open the airbox and tune for highway performance, I would have to jet up and then I'd have a dog in the mountains. So I just avoid highways where 60mph isn't fast enough. That's half the fun of touring on a little bike anyway, going out of your way to stay off the beaten path. I didn't buy this bike for the highway. -al

[NJ-Brett]

I think having more aggressive dual sport tires on a bike takes some power away, but the big thing is wind drag.
One of the road tests of the TU noted that the top speed went up 7 mph by tucking in.

The TU is supposed to have about 18 hp, but its a very broad power curve which helps a lot, and it was new bikes they tested on the dyno, and for whatever reason, the TU really seems to increase in power after it breaks in. You can really feel the difference. I ran a non o ring chain for a while as an experiment and felt a difference, but the chain seemed to wear fairly fast.
I think you notice even small changes in power on small bikes much more then larger bikes.

[Sierra Thumper]

Originally Posted by ALinUTAH

I actually think it's the other way around. If you lose 20% off of 16hp you barely have enough to get out of your own way. If you lose 20% from 100hp you still have 80 which is plenty.

The problem I have is that I am up and down so much in a single ride. In a single trip I can be in 10k ft mtns and down to the desert at 4k. What I was doing end of last season was running a #30 main jet (2 sizes down from the stock 35) which feels about right at southern desert elevations with the airbox closed up, then opening the airbox when in the mountains. It's relatively easy to open/close, giving me two different intake settings. If I wanted to open the airbox and tune for highway performance, I would have to jet up and then I'd have a dog in the mountains. So I just avoid highways where 60mph isn't fast enough. That's half the fun of touring on a little bike anyway, going out of your way to stay off the beaten path. I didn't buy this bike for the highway. -al

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

I think having more aggressive dual sport tires on a bike takes some power away, but the big thing is wind drag.
One of the road tests of the TU noted that the top speed went up 7 mph by tucking in.

The TU is supposed to have about 18 hp, but its a very broad power curve which helps a lot, and it was new bikes they tested on the dyno, and for whatever reason, the TU really seems to increase in power after it breaks in. You can really feel the difference. I ran a non o ring chain for a while as an experiment and felt a difference, but the chain seemed to wear fairly fast.
I think you notice even small changes in power on small bikes much more then larger bikes.

I prolly should have been clearer.....I meant with a low power dual sport thats not intended for big acceleration to begin with, but just tractoring around off-road, I don't miss the power like I do on my 170hp hayabusa, where the major reason I own it IS for the extreme acceleration and power. In that situation I do miss the 26hp I lose...not because I need it, but because I want it
144hp does just fine at motivating the bike, but after coming back up from sea level, it just feels slow...which isn't why I bought it

2 different bikes with 2 different purposes, one based on power being the last priority, the other one having power as the first priority

[Krono]

Originally Posted by SIKLR250

Welcome to the Minimalist Touring Thread:
...

Please introduce yourself and tell us about your bike and your travels.

First I'd like to thank Honda for issuing the CRF250L model

I had a "bike life" since i was 14, mx, dual-sport and street bikes, more and more powerful as i was aging until i became a true speed junkie. Then i became father and a survival instinct came on that made me switch into offroad 4 wheelers as a less risky hobby.

20 years laters (last july), i did enter a Honda dealer to have a look on the scooters, as an alternate vehicule to commute aroud getting rid of traffic jams. Then i saw the CRFL and i knew it was her i wanted. Excellent choice for getting me back on bikes at 53, conveniant for my first purpose witch was city traffic, with the fun of off-road as bonus.

The problem is now i'm used to it, i'm everyday more frustrated in the fun factor by the lack of power/acceleration. This remains the last legal "drug" we have, after all (sex & rock'n'roll dont count here), and when one need more and more of it, "250 and under" can soon become a bit frustrating. I know i dont need a bigger one for what im doing with, but i cant help thinking about and lurking 500 EXC and similars. I just dont know what to do ... brain against heart fighting now.

Well ... a small motorcycle would at least had the merit to get me back on the saddle

L

[NJ-Brett]

I am about the same age, started the same time as you, but never gave it up, just did not ride as much after marrage.

I find it the other way around, bigger more powerful bikes are boring on the street, and will hurt you in the dirt.
Its not like you can use a fast street bike around here, and its a lot more fun to ride a small under powered light bike like a mad man, then it is to loaf along on a big bike.
Light, nimble, fun, feels very fast at 70 mph, evey ride can be a road race.

Power in the dirt is fine, as long as it does not add weight.
At 54, a fall the wrong way on a tall heavy bike can end up in a hospital stay.

And when I tried a friends xt225 I thought it was so small and light, it was a hoot in the rough stuff.
I think some KTM's would be a REAL hoot, but would likely get me in trouble again with the speeds you can hit in the rough stuff.

Out west, a bigger bike is likely called for with all that wide open space, but on the East coast, smaller bikes can do and may be more fun.

Originally Posted by Krono

First I'd like to thank Honda for issuing the CRF250L model

I had a "bike life" since i was 14, mx, dual-sport and street bikes, more and more powerful as i was aging until i became a true speed junkie. Then i became father and a survival instinct came on that made me switch into offroad 4 wheelers as a less risky hobby.

The problem is now i'm used to it, i'm everyday more frustrated in the fun factor by the lack of power/acceleration. This remains the last legal "drug" we have, after all (sex & rock'n'roll dont count here), and when one need more and more of it, "250 and under" can soon become a bit frustrating. I know i dont need a bigger one for what im doing with, but i cant help thinking about and lurking 500 EXC and similars. I just dont know what to do ... brain against heart fighting now.

Well ... a small motorcycle would at least had the merit to get me back on the saddle

L

[GlennR]

Originally Posted by Krono

First I'd like to thank Honda for issuing the CRF250L model

I had a "bike life" since i was 14, mx, dual-sport and street bikes, more and more powerful as i was aging until i became a true speed junkie. Then i became father and a survival instinct came on that made me switch into offroad 4 wheelers as a less risky hobby.

20 years laters (last july), i did enter a Honda dealer to have a look on the scooters, as an alternate vehicule to commute aroud getting rid of traffic jams. Then i saw the CRFL and i knew it was her i wanted. Excellent choice for getting me back on bikes at 53, conveniant for my first purpose witch was city traffic, with the fun of off-road as bonus.

The problem is now i'm used to it, i'm everyday more frustrated in the fun factor by the lack of power/acceleration. This remains the last legal "drug" we have, after all (sex & rock'n'roll dont count here), and when one need more and more of it, "250 and under" can soon become a bit frustrating. I know i dont need a bigger one for what im doing with, but i cant help thinking about and lurking 500 EXC and similars. I just dont know what to do ... brain against heart fighting now.

Well ... a small motorcycle would at least had the merit to get me back on the saddle

L

If you can afford to own 2 bikes at the same time, I'd recommend you to go ahead and buy a more powerful dual sport & see how you like it. If you buy used at a good price you can always sell it wihout loosing money. You aren't getting any younger, and you will regret never trying one if you don't.
That being said, I have a Yamaha XT225 and a Yamaha WR450F, that's been converted to be street legal. I love both of them, and am lucky that I can afford to keep them both. The 450 has so much power & is a rush to ride, but I often find myself being drawn to riding the 225 because it's so easy & user friendly. I keep knobbies on the 450 & reserve it for 90% off-road riding. Btw, I'd shop for an older KTM if you want to try one. The WR450 only has a 5 speed tranny, and is a bit heavier. Avoid the Suzuki DRZ400, because they're heavy & under powered. I found the WR450 at a good price

It is a blast to ride a dual sport that has enough power to raise the front end just by twisting the throttle, in the first 4 gears!

But this thread is about small bikes, and I love riding small displacement bikes. I'll eventually sell off my bigger bikes, but I'll probably keep the 225 til I'm old & crippled....or dead. Every time I ride it I feel like I'm 15 again.

[SAPB]

Originally Posted by GlennR

If you can afford to own 2 bikes at the same time, I'd recommend you to go ahead and buy a more powerful dual sport & see how you like it. If you buy used at a good price you can always sell it wihout loosing money. You aren't getting any younger, and you will regret never trying one if you don't.
That being said, I have a Yamaha XT225 and a Yamaha WR450F, that's been converted to be street legal. I love both of them, and am lucky that I can afford to keep them both. The 450 has so much power & is a rush to ride, but I often find myself being drawn to riding the 225 because it's so easy & user friendly. I keep knobbies on the 450 & reserve it for 90% off-road riding. Btw, I'd shop for an older KTM if you want to try one. The WR450 only has a 5 speed tranny, and is a bit heavier. Avoid the Suzuki DRZ400, because they're heavy & under powered. I found the WR450 at a good price

It is a blast to ride a dual sport that has enough power to raise the front end just by twisting the throttle, in the first 4 gears!

But this thread is about small bikes, and I love riding small displacement bikes. I'll eventually sell off my bigger bikes, but I'll probably keep the 225 til I'm old & crippled....or dead. Every time I ride it I feel like I'm 15 again.

Riding the 250 always puts a smile on my face, just not a the temperatures we've been experiencing here lately. I think it's suppose to be up in the 40's next week, high temp today is 27, up from the morning low of 6.

[Krono]

Thanks for your kind answer Brett

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

....
Light, nimble, fun, feels very fast at 70 mph, evey ride can be a road race.

...

... just what i meant : always on the throttle. Im feeling dumb sometimes

More cavalery under my butt would make my driving more zen

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

...
At 54, a fall the wrong way on a tall heavy bike can end up in a hospital stay.

...
Out west, a bigger bike is likely called for with all that wide open space, but on the East coast, smaller bikes can do and may be more fun.

Same here, and what my logic says. I'll stick with my 250 for the moment (at last until spring )

L

[Krono]

Originally Posted by GlennR

...
It is a blast to ride a dual sport that has enough power to raise the front end just by twisting the throttle, in the first 4 gears!

....

Yesssssssss !!!
The only lacking of my bike, otherwise its perfect

L

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

On the street, people seem to think they need huge motors, otherwise they might have to downshift to pass or go up a hill, and that just won't do.
So they ride a 600 pound bike that gets 40 mpg and costs more then most cars.
They have CB's, audio systems, abs, traction control, heated grips, power windshields, cup holders, cruise control, a trunk, gps, and who knows what else.

Not a lot of bikes have much of that stuff, even fewer have all of it. And yet, sometimes, it's absolutely necessary. Well, not necessarily the CB, audio system, etc, etc. But the power? yes. There are quite simply some places and situations where it's necessary.

Running down the interstate into a 30+ mph headwind. "Oh, take secondary roads" you say? Well, there are times and places without practical secondary roads. I had a Honda GL500, twice the displacement of this thread, and the only way I could keep from getting run over by the semi-s (which were moving slower than the cars) was to draft 'em. Now, I realize that where most folks in the US live, as well as pretty much all of Europe, don't have these challenges, but just as y'all are right to say that there's a lot more that can be done with small displacement bikes than most First Worlder's will credit, there's also some real world situations where they flat out don't cut it, situations that cannot always be avoided.

************************************************** *********
Now, moving to a second topic, I see very little description of what people are actually carrying, or how they're carrying. There's a 250 DS (WR250R or CRF250L) in my near future, and I'm looking for ideas and a sense of the limitations I'll be facing. It'll take some rethinking from my "other" ride, an ST1300 w/ a trailer.