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Old 02-11-2007, 06:46 AM   #16
ChrisC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
I installed a used 39 FCR-MX from a '03 KTM EXC on my 640A.
Does this mean I have to excommunicate you from the cult?

I think it does....
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjf
So are we gunna see a how to convert your (03) 640 ADV from a BST to an FCR.

Because My BST is getting one more float adjustment and if it still bogs its gone. Before easter too.
I did take a few pics kinda after the fact, but I could write a report... to go along with the thousands of reports other people have written.
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
Does this mean I have to excommunicate you from the cult?

I think it does....
Maybe...we'll see after I get a chance to do a dirt ride. A street ride yesterday didn't really tell me too much. It wasn't better or worse... just different.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:02 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
I did take a few pics kinda after the fact, but I could write a report... to go along with the thousands of reports other people have written.
Yeah but the other thousands don't have that step by step, easy to follow feel to them.

The main things I'm concerened about are

what throttle cables to use.

What choke cable set up to use.

What airbox to carb rubber manifold to use.

What carb to engine rubber manifold to use.

How to connect the BST's TPS wires up to the FCR's sensor.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:09 AM   #20
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From the other threads and info I've read, I think I have the answers already, but it would be good to get a second opinion from Il doctore of the LC4 familia.

(Thats you crepper, BTW)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjf
Yeah but the other thousands don't have that step by step, easy to follow feel to them.

The main things I'm concerened about are

what throttle cables to use.
Can use the BST cables
What choke cable set up to use.
Can use the BST cable, but it needs a little bit of filing work on the cables end
What airbox to carb rubber manifold to use.
Can use the BST one
What carb to engine rubber manifold to use.
Can use the BST one
How to connect the BST's TPS wires up to the FCR's sensor.
Can be done by an auto elec with the manual for the BST's TPS adjustment procedure.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:21 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
The EPC is an emissions control device that functions as a carburetor "vacuum piston damper".
When it is engaged in the range indicated in the attached drawing, it allows atmospheric pressure in the area above the vacuum diaphragm via a solenoid valve, which has the effect of slowing down or damping the vacuum pistons response.

...

What is the possible benefit from disconnecting this system? As far as I can tell, whacking the throttle open in 2nd and 3rd gear at 45 to 55 kph is a universally popular and highly entertaining practice.
Removing a device that restricts throttle response would insure that people the world over can have just as much fun as Americans and other nationalities that aren't hobbled by this spiffy device.

That's about what I know... unless I'm wrong, then I guess I'm more senile than I thought.
C
Actualy the EPC system is for noise regulations! Apparently the LC4 makes to much noice in stock form for EU Regulations when you open the throttle fully in 2. and 3. gear!
The same is achieved in the 990 Adventures in electronic form, you can get a small box from KTM Sommer which also cancels this system, of course only for racing! ;-)
I think some of the noice measurement are taken as a drive by while fully accelerating in 2. and 3. gear.
As you probably have found out, the system delays the full opening of the throttle.
Personaly, I have just installed the plug shown in you pictures, and reconnected the rest. As I got the bike used this way, I have no comparison for you guys.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:02 AM   #22
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If anyone in little ole Perth has the facilities, I'd like to be a guinea pig to prove or otherwise the benefits of some of the changes on the board. So before I start (hopefully my Wings 'zorst will be here this week), does anyone have access to a dyno to try out the various options on a late 06 640 ADV?

Somebdoy will have to bring a snorkel with them to set the ex factory position, as the a'hole at the local dealer still hasn't replied to my request for either the missing one to be supplied or why the accessory prices here are up to near three times the US ones. Still I should cut them slack if they are going to sell Mike parts for the Aus Safari...
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
Maybe...we'll see after I get a chance to do a dirt ride. A street ride yesterday didn't really tell me too much. It wasn't better or worse... just different.
Absolution awaiteth he who returns to the fold...
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:15 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjf
Yeah but the other thousands don't have that step by step, easy to follow feel to them.

The main things I'm concerened about are

what throttle cables to use. I bought 04 SXC cables... bolt right on... routed under and up the right side of the frame backbone, behind the rad 'Y' hose.

What choke cable set up to use. Snip the fuel needle off the BST piston and file it flush to the piston face... take your time, don't wank the rubber part. You'll have to adjust quite a bit of slack out of the cable to get it to work right as the piston travel distance is shorter.

What airbox to carb rubber manifold to use. Stock or '04 SXC

What carb to engine rubber manifold to use. Stock or '04 SXC. Use the SXC clamps if you use the SXC flange... the bands are narrower.

How to connect the BST's TPS wires up to the FCR's sensor. Get a new 3 pin waterproof connector, like a Deutsch.
This is what I did.... YMMV.

Bear in mind that my 39mm carb came off an '03 525 EXC.

I'll try to post some pics and write a little sumpin' sumpin' this weekend.

C
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
This is what I did.... YMMV.

Bear in mind that my 39mm carb came off an '03 525 EXC.

I'll try to post some pics and write a little sumpin' sumpin' this weekend.
Don't rush on my account, I'm a cheapskate part time student. I won't be rushing out to buy an FCR until I have exhausted all options with the BST, and only then once I don't have an exhausted bank account
C
From what I've read the 39 and 41 is the same carb, all the same parts fit, its only the bore size thats different.

Since 39mm FCR's are much cheaper (2nd hand), if I cannot sort the BST bog, I will fit a 39. Then when time /funds allow get it oval bored so it has the low down response of a 39, but can flow as much as a 41 then WFO.
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:08 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjf
From what I've read the 39 and 41 is the same carb, all the same parts fit, its only the bore size thats different.

Since 39mm FCR's are much cheaper (2nd hand), if I cannot sort the BST bog, I will fit a 39. Then when time /funds allow get it oval bored so it has the low down response of a 39, but can flow as much as a 41 then WFO.
I was only pointing out the venturi size to clarify that it is a 39. You are correct to my knowledge... the external dimensions are the same.

To be honest, I don't think you'd see much of a gain over stock with a "keyhole" or "egg" venturi bore job... but then again, if it's done right, it certainly won't do any damage to the bottom or mid-ranges.

I've downloaded the pics to smugmug here if you want to take a look-see. Sorry most are after the fact... I wasn't planing on writing anything, so I only did a disassembly pic and a AP squirt adjustment pic.

C
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:35 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper
To be honest, I don't think you'd see much of a gain over stock with a "keyhole" or "egg" venturi bore job... but then again, if it's done right, it certainly won't do any damage to the bottom or mid-ranges.
Yeah, it'd probably only help inconjunction with exhast and cam, etc mods. (which I definately don't have the $$$ for ATM)
I've downloaded the pics to smugmug here if you want to take a look-see. Sorry most are after the fact... Thats fine, I know how to remove a BST already I wasn't planing on writing anything, so I only did a disassembly pic and a AP squirt adjustment pic. Excelent C
I have no experience with AP's. Would I be correct in saying that if you were normally rolling the throttle open slowly, eg, enduro type riding you would have the ap squirt time short, or else it cold run rich momentarily and bog?

And if you were opening it quickly, eg super moto it would perform better with a longer squirt time, because it would run lean momentarily with a short squirt time ?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Chris.

Rhys.
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:58 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjf
I have no experience with AP's. Would I be correct in saying that if you were normally rolling the throttle open slowly, eg, enduro type riding you would have the ap squirt time short, or else it cold run rich momentarily and bog?

And if you were opening it quickly, eg super moto it would perform better with a longer squirt time, because it would run lean momentarily with a short squirt time ?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Chris.

Rhys.
The idea is that a aggressive off-road rider, one who is in the optimum gear for the conditions doesn't need a long squirt time as he's very seldom if ever bogging the engine. In fact, under these conditions, the bike will perform better with a shorter squirt time.

Because none of us can ride under perfect conditions for long, we need a way to offset the open throttle lean condition. CVs do it with a vac controlled variable venturi, slide carbs do it with a AP.

See... the whole idea of an AP is to offset the lean condition of a throttle being opened when there isn't sufficient air flow to pull fuel thru the needle jet efficiently.
An AP wouldn't even be needed if the carb (or venturi) was smaller and had a strong vacuum signal at all times... like a CV carb for example.
If you're riding in a optimum gear and RPM for conditions... with good air flow thru the venturi and a strong vacuum signal, you could disconnect the AP and it wouldn't make a difference.

The squirt time is based on the ability of the engine to rev and produce enough vacuum in the venturi that the AP becomes redundant... so actually, the theory is just the opposite of what your saying.

The AP squirt time is about 3 seconds as delivered from Keihin. On some carbs, no provision is made for adjustment, and there are a few methods to correct this. The most well known is the "BK mod", or a variation of it.

A three second squirt time is "safe" in that it may be too rich for some... but never too lean for anyone.

C
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Old 02-13-2007, 11:19 AM   #29
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Well, at least you kept the orange hoses. But the question remains, is it worth the effort?



Oh, and nice coolant jug. Think the zip ties are gonna hold (pretty light, I'm guessin'?)
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:07 PM   #30
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Well, at least you kept the orange hoses. But the question remains, is it worth the effort?



Oh, and nice coolant jug. Think the zip ties are gonna hold (pretty light, I'm guessin'?)
The orange hoses came with the carb... kinda snazzy huh?

When I get a chance to do a little off-road, then I'll have a better idea. Anyone that puts on a carb and can proclaim it to be wonderful in the first 10 minutes is full of shit... or has cognitive power beyond my comprehension.

I already know the average fuel mileage will drop off from the mid 40s to the mid to high 30s... what I'm looking for specifically is the ability to pop the front wheel over logs and other nasty trail roadblocks with less effort and clutch abuse.
I don't do wheelies much... at least not for no good reason, as I don't have the balance for it anymore (inner ear damage), so the above is the only real reason I'm giving it a try. If I can't get a substantial improvement there, I'll go back to the BST just to get the fuel mileage back.

The RLR coolant recovery bottle doesn't weigh anything... even with coolant in it, so 700lb. test ty-wraps should do OK. I've got some stainless mil-spec ty-wraps should the nylon ones prove to be too fragile.
I had to cut the tabs off the subframe to mount it there... I stared at alternate locations/options for a few hours before I gave in and lopped them off.

The RLR guy actually drilled holes in the right number plate for a 640 mount!
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