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Old 02-22-2007, 04:12 PM   #151
PaleHearse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trailbuster30
So my question is, are these (for the most part) the so called experienced BMW owners we're talking about?
With buying habits like this how in the hell would you know how well made they really are ?

Dan
Those aren't actually the real owners Dan. Recent experience kind of plays that out for me any way. First of all, let me state for the record I'm branded... very much so. Comming off ballistic tupperweare of the 80's, reliability and longevity was not something much spoken about Japanise bikes. They were simply affordable Lamborghini's on 2 wheels. When the engines or transmissions wore out, you found a donor motor or scrapped the bike for parts.

My first BMW was an R100GS/PD. I had never.. ever had a bike that had gone 60K miles without issue in my friggin life. Again, remember the time.

That bike took me to 97K before a traffic accident claimed it. With that, it was no great mystery that when it was time to get another bike, I was again back at my BMW dealer. My current bike now has over 130,000 miles on it.. so again voting with my wallet, when a lady friend of mine wanted to try long distance touring I was again in search of another 1150GS. As an engineer, I go with what I know. With 2 bikes that had shown brutal reliability and longevity, I'm not about to change to something I don't know.

Now.. back to the story.. I find a GSA... local... the thing is a 2002, the first year they made them. The thing has less then 4,000 miles on it. It had me scratching my head... who would do that?

Basically, the guy paid me $4,000 to store my bike for 5 years and would periodically ride it to make sure it still ran ok.

Now... who's the owner? What would this guy have said when JD powers calls him up?

What I can tell you is that I am now the OWNER of this bike.. in the fullest possible sense... well actually my lady friend is.. but I digress. This bike's clock basically starts now, not in 2002.

I've heard from many who say they own a bike.. but what they really mean is that they have one. To own it is to actually use it. If your not doing that, you don't own a frigging thing.
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Old 02-22-2007, 04:16 PM   #152
BMR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleHearse
I've heard from many who say they own a bike.. but what they really mean is that they have one. To own it is to actually use it. If your not doing that, you don't own a frigging thing.

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Old 02-22-2007, 04:19 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by BMR
You and I can have a beer when I'm up there in a couple months with my lady friend.
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Old 02-22-2007, 04:41 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR
You could be accused of being an anti-BMW snob though.

Your analogy is as flawed as the JD Powers study that began this lengthy pissing match....unfortunately.
Just your opinion. You must be a bmw guy
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Old 02-22-2007, 04:54 PM   #155
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I've heard from many who say they own a bike.. but what they really mean is that they have one. To own it is to actually use it. If your not doing that, you don't own a frigging thing.[/quote]

Well put. Everyone's opinion is based on their respective experiences. There will always be people on both sides of the fence. Re: 'My bike is better than yours'. You obviously have had great experiences with bmws.
Reliabilty factor, etc. I know a few guys that have had the exact opposite experience with them. Hence my reasoning for buying a V strom instead.
Good reports on the Strom and 1/3 the cost of a GS. Yes, (road)time will tell. I'd assume that the JD survey in question won't change the opinions of the hardcore beemer guys anyway. Ride what you like and be happy.
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Old 02-22-2007, 04:57 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBDRdude
Just your opinion. You must be a bmw guy
Actually I am currently bike-less, but do ride a trials motorcycle when I can.....work gets in the way right now.

When I re-enter the market, I am not sure what bike it will be, but I am not ruling out BMW for reasons that have been slagged on here. Dealer, club activity, and the intangibles (which can't really be explained) are things I will be thinking about when I pull the trigger.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:03 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBDRdude

I second this opinion. Most bmw snobs I know are just that snobs. Their bikes don't make them any better of a rider. They basically think they're cool because of the little emblem. And yeah, give me a cuda, camero or mustage over a bmw anytime. Looks like the uptight beemer guys on here aren't liking it. Oh well...
Until the road gets twisty, that is. Last time a wanker in a Monte Carlo tried to chase my 320i, the Monte ended up rolling down a small embankment. Darn. And I know a 2002 will smole my old E20 where it counts. Most cagers drive like pussies in the corners anyway.
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:50 AM   #158
heikkil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stromdog
Originally Posted by justJeff
We won't even go into how comparitively few Suzukis and other bikes do such trips compared to BMW's. Again, a lot of it has to do with the wealth level of the owners. Obviously more BMW owners can afford the time to travel extensively on a relatively expensive motorcycle.

My wife and I probably have a higher level of personal wealth than just about anyone on this forum. I could go out tomorrow and buy a gold plated GS12, if I wanted one.

Having said that, I ride a Strom. Just my choice at the moment. Maybe next year I'll buy something else, and pay cash for whatever it turns out to be.
I'm o.t.o.h. on the lower side of personal wealth and my wife doesn't give a single euro for my motorcycle hobby. Up here in Finland bikes actually cost as if they were gold plated (not thick layer but still - you got the picture...): R1200GS Adventure list price around 26.400 USD vs. 1k Strom's 18.400 USD / DL650's 14.400 USD. Of course our riding season is also shorter than in e.g. Florida (this morning -30'C, thanks for asking...).

And what did I do? Buy a 1k Strom? (had a DL650 for two years but that's another story...) Naaah; bought a R1200GS Adventure! Well honestly bank owns big part of it but at least my name is in the registration papers.

Why? Simply because if you want a real allroader there isn't that many choices; I came down to three. A KTM 990 Adventure, an Aprilia Caponord or an R1200GS/GSA. Stroms, new Tiger, Varadero etc. just are too much road-oriented for my point of view (remember, I had a Wee-Strom for two years so I know...). And why a Beemer then? Because of quality (old saying goes "poor man can afford buying only the best")... Probably here in Europe BMW doesn't have the same pumped-up imago as it has across the Atlantic so in a way buying one is easier and needs less speculations.

heikkil screwed with this post 02-23-2007 at 05:35 AM
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Old 02-23-2007, 12:20 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZbiker
Until the road gets twisty, that is. Last time a wanker in a Monte Carlo tried to chase my 320i, the Monte ended up rolling down a small embankment. Darn. And I know a 2002 will smole my old E20 where it counts. Most cagers drive like pussies in the corners anyway.
Sorry.. I thought we were talking about the bikes...

You do realize that the motorcycle division has absolutly nothing to do with the vehicle division right?
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:08 PM   #160
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It is not the bike, it is the rider and what he is passionate about. We are all passionate about riding, that's why we are here.
JD Power has no passion
This argument is totally subjective, it is like discussing which is color is better.
After so much participation, no point has been made (taken.) We are back to step one, except for that poor bastard that has enough money to buy gold plated BMW's, he learned the most. This would have been a great opportunity to be quiet, and he missed it.
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:23 PM   #161
PaleHearse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stromdog
Originally Posted by justJeff
We won't even go into how comparitively few Suzukis and other bikes do such trips compared to BMW's. Again, a lot of it has to do with the wealth level of the owners. Obviously more BMW owners can afford the time to travel extensively on a relatively expensive motorcycle.





My wife and I probably have a higher level of personal wealth than just about anyone on this forum. I could go out tomorrow and buy a gold plated GS12, if I wanted one.

Having said that, I ride a Strom. Just my choice at the moment. Maybe next year I'll buy something else, and pay cash for whatever it turns out to be.
Now you need to do a movie.. perhaps you can go around the world.. just let me know if you need a camra man... I'd be happy to follow you around and film it.

I'd want to ride my girlfriends 2002 GSA to do it on though.
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Old 02-23-2007, 07:00 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ostion
After so much participation, no point has been made (taken.) We are back to step one, except for that poor bastard that has enough money to buy gold plated BMW's, he learned the most. This would have been a great opportunity to be quiet, and he missed it.
A few points remain basically unchallenged. First, that although a novice rider may not notice finer quality points, he's more likely to abuse the bike with poor technique. Second, that an N of 600 is adequate to find a realistic mean. If nation wide political polls can work with N<1,000, the Powers survey is good as well. See http://pollingreport.com/.

A couple individuals discount the poll based on questions asked. It's assumed that the questions directly relate to results. Most polls have questions designed to weed overly biased people out. When in meetings with professional data analysts, I'm generally humbled by the amount of thought that goes into this stuff. Years of education are put into obtaining accurate data from biased sources. It seems rather arrogant to throw out results without a clear understanding of the study's methodology.

I agree that when it comes to buying, JD Power data shouldn't matter much. Bikes are about passion, and buying in a dispassionate manner leads most people to disappointing outcomes. My next adventure bike will be made by KTM (and I'm aware that they have 'issues').
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Old 02-23-2007, 08:22 PM   #163
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I loan Bill Gates lunch money. What a thread, it must really be winter. LOL

Tom
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Old 02-23-2007, 10:14 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleHearse
Sorry.. I thought we were talking about the bikes...

You do realize that the motorcycle division has absolutly nothing to do with the vehicle division right?
Yea, right, nothing to do with each other....except for the fact that the Car
division has suppported the "Run in the Red" Bike division for the last 30 years or so.

I think the bike division has run in the black maybe 5 out of the last 30 years.
As to why BMW does this you'll have to read my buddies interview with X motorad pres. Seifert in BMWMOA news.
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Old 02-23-2007, 10:18 PM   #165
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It's a friggen motorcycle, it's not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The windnoise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you shit your pants every now and then.
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