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Old 02-17-2007, 04:01 PM   #46
Sqwap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamos2000
I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.. now that I have that out of the way, I thought I heard/read that BMWs across the ocean from us in America are more reasonably priced and they are just more expensive here in the USA cause we buy into the whole 'BMW' thing (i.e. thinking its a Honda)
You heard wrong mate. They are more expensive over yonder. There was even a salesman at a dealer in Plymouth UK that was considering coming here to get one and bringing it back to the UK because it would be cheaper.

R1200GS Adventure
USA - $16,775
UK - 9895 pounds - $1.96 to a pound = $19,394.20
GER - 13,840 Euro - $1.32 to a Euro = $18,268.80
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Old 02-17-2007, 04:53 PM   #47
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I could point out here that BMW has won far more awards for their bikes than Suzuki but the only thing that really matters is what the people say with their dollars. Suzuki brings up the rear end in motorcycle sales. So much so that they had to enter into the alliance agreement with Kawi to keep things going. They make a couple of great bikes, but for the most part, they struggle to keep up with the Honda and Yamaha sales and they are not even in the same market as a BMW. As someone mentioned earlier, BMW markets to a select population, just like the HD guys do. They are not competing with Suzuki. If the Suzuki bikes are so much better, why is it that everyone on here is always comparing their bikes to the BMW? It seems by the posts of people on this forum that BMW is obviously the standard to which al other bikes are compared.

As far as my personal opinion, each bike category has a clear leader and that is how I choose my bikes (not by brand). If I were buying a sport bike, I would buy a Suzuki 'busa before a BMW.
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Old 02-17-2007, 05:11 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iridefar
...the only thing that really matters is what the people say with their dollars.
Then it logically follows that Honda and Harley Davidson are the highest quality bikes in America, since they outsell every other brand with about 250,000 units sold each. But, according to the JD Powers study HD suffers in quality so your logic doesn't agree with the data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iridefar
Suzuki brings up the rear end in motorcycle sales.
Suzuki is 4th in units sold in the US. BMW is 7th. Suzuki outsells BMW by more than 850%.

Motor unit sales for 2004 and 2005:

Suzuki - 115,664 / 116,003
BMW - 13,369 / 13,813

Source: Motorcycle Consumer News, Jan 2006
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Old 02-17-2007, 05:26 PM   #49
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The difference between perception and facts

What makes studies like this one so fascinating to me is how often studies reveal that there are broad difference between what people believe and the actual facts. It's not all that unusual to find that the perceptions people have about things are not supported by the true facts of the case.
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Old 02-17-2007, 05:36 PM   #50
crushingchestpain
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over valued dollar????

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortOnSkill
I suspect that BMW's high price has something to do with expensive German labor laws and an over valued dollar.

at 1.3o euro
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Old 02-17-2007, 05:48 PM   #51
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Wicked

what the hell is wrong with you people??....shut up and ride........
a BMW......sheesh
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Old 02-17-2007, 06:51 PM   #52
Gustavo
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First:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_
Then it logically follows that Honda and Harley Davidson are the highest quality bikes in America, since they outsell every other brand with about 250,000 units sold each. But, according to the JD Powers study HD suffers in quality so your logic doesn't agree with the data.
And then:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_
Suzuki is 4th in units sold in the US. BMW is 7th. Suzuki outsells BMW by more than 850%.
Motor unit sales for 2004 and 2005:
Suzuki - 115,664 / 116,003
BMW - 13,369 / 13,813

Source: Motorcycle Consumer News, Jan 2006
What's wrong with you man?
Bringing data and facts into a discussion about perceptions and beliefs...





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Old 02-17-2007, 07:15 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustavo
What's wrong with you man?
Bringing data and facts into a discussion about perceptions and beliefs...




Sorry, man. I'm funny that way, actually putting facts and data above perception and bias.
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Old 02-17-2007, 08:55 PM   #54
davorallyfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iridefar
I could point out here that BMW has won far more awards for their bikes than Suzuki but the only thing that really matters is what the people say with their dollars. Suzuki brings up the rear end in motorcycle sales. So much so that they had to enter into the alliance agreement with Kawi to keep things going. They make a couple of great bikes, but for the most part, they struggle to keep up with the Honda and Yamaha sales and they are not even in the same market as a BMW. As someone mentioned earlier, BMW markets to a select population, just like the HD guys do. They are not competing with Suzuki. If the Suzuki bikes are so much better, why is it that everyone on here is always comparing their bikes to the BMW? It seems by the posts of people on this forum that BMW is obviously the standard to which al other bikes are compared.

As far as my personal opinion, each bike category has a clear leader and that is how I choose my bikes (not by brand). If I were buying a sport bike, I would buy a Suzuki 'busa before a BMW.
Awards

I dont think the Kawa / Suz alliance is still alive.

I do think the Suz DR650 is a better bike at a better price than the GS650 or GS650 Dak.

I think the Vstrom (though ugly) is as good as a GS1200.

In terms of the DS segment Honda and Yamaha are not doing anything much.

I believe in a general sence Suzuki build quality is better than BMW.
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:51 PM   #55
markjenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR
the general consensus around the riders that I know well is that the build quality in regards to fit, finish, level of polish, anodizing etc is not good on Suzuki, of all major brands. The litmus test often quoted is....leave it in the rain for a day or two, then look at what has to be polished, de-rusted or generally made to look new again with some considerable elbow grease. Suzukis seem to be built with cheaper grades of external parts.

Again, I take all surveys with a block of salt, and I would hope others do as well, unless they have an axe to grind with a certain brand or marque.

ps.do you do any PNWMA events?
Nope, on the events - generally too busy although sounds like fun.

I'd agree that BMWs have a somewhat higher level of fit/finish. They're just very cool bikes, any way you cut it - the way they look, ride, feel, etc.

- Mark
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Old 02-18-2007, 02:05 AM   #56
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Wink Quality shows its head at around year 5...

Park & Ride all of the bikes outside for 5 years...and then we can begin to talk about quality. By year 10 it should get interesting.

Frozen chains, cheesy handlebars, dry rubbery bits, rusted steel painted vs. billet hardware, crumbling seat covers, self destructing grips, pitted valve guides, blow by, engines that can't be cost effectively rebuilt, etc...

There's a strong financial reason Suzuki typically offers the worst warranty 12k/12 mos in the biz. They sell motorcycles to make money. Selling the cheapest product at the highest possible price the market will bear. Ever notice the chain, handlebars, sprockets, controls, etc... on a Suzuki? Cheaply made no name...even compared to any of the Big 4!

Tout the reliability stats all you want, but the quality heading in this thread is laughable.
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Old 02-18-2007, 04:32 AM   #57
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Thumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustavo
First:


And then:


What's wrong with you man?
Bringing data and facts into a discussion about perceptions and beliefs...





Gustavo
I think.... if you regularly run Quaker State 50w, you'll gain 16 horsepower, and will be mobbed by chicks.....
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:19 AM   #58
ShortOnSkill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ergo
Park & Ride all of the bikes outside for 5 years...and then we can begin to talk about quality. By year 10 it should get interesting.

Frozen chains, cheesy handlebars, dry rubbery bits, rusted steel painted vs. billet hardware, crumbling seat covers, self destructing grips, pitted valve guides, blow by, engines that can't be cost effectively rebuilt, etc...

There's a strong financial reason Suzuki typically offers the worst warranty 12k/12 mos in the biz. They sell motorcycles to make money. Selling the cheapest product at the highest possible price the market will bear. Ever notice the chain, handlebars, sprockets, controls, etc... on a Suzuki? Cheaply made no name...even compared to any of the Big 4!

Tout the reliability stats all you want, but the quality heading in this thread is laughable.
Why would I want any bike over 10 years old? Outdated technology. Electronics that can't be depended upon. So far, my bike has handled 4 years of riding in Oregon's rain belt. None of the issues you mention so far. Here's a snap from last November.



Chain, handlebars, sprockets? I want these to be cheap on the stock bike. At 6'2'', an aftermarket bar fits my body position better. After 15K on the stock chain, I wanted different gearing - meaning different sprocket choices. Inexpensive fluff on a strong machine is nice.

Speaking of strong. The engine does not burn a drop of oil. A growing number of people have over 100K without issues. It's almost unheard of for someone to have a major mechanical problem with Stroms.

Parking outside? You have a point. However, anyone who must do this obviously purchased beyond their means. Unable to afford a proper house and buying expensive toys? What would this person's retirement account look like?
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:07 AM   #59
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Well

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ergo
Park & Ride all of the bikes outside for 5 years...and then we can begin to talk about quality. By year 10 it should get interesting.

Frozen chains, cheesy handlebars, dry rubbery bits, rusted steel painted vs. billet hardware, crumbling seat covers, self destructing grips, pitted valve guides, blow by, engines that can't be cost effectively rebuilt, etc...

There's a strong financial reason Suzuki typically offers the worst warranty 12k/12 mos in the biz. They sell motorcycles to make money. Selling the cheapest product at the highest possible price the market will bear. Ever notice the chain, handlebars, sprockets, controls, etc... on a Suzuki? Cheaply made no name...even compared to any of the Big 4!

Tout the reliability stats all you want, but the quality heading in this thread is laughable.
If there wasn't a grain of truth in this thread, why would you spend time defending.
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Old 02-18-2007, 09:11 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglemike
If Suzuke made a V-Strom with a better fairing, shaft drive, and ABS, maybe a bigger tank, I'd be all over it. They don't have anything to compete with a R12RT for 2-up comfort and traveling that I know of.

I did own a 1K Strom, and an FJR. I like the BMW best - not because of the money. I like it because of the bike it is. If the price was 3K lower I don't think they could keep them in stock. Maybe I'm worng, though, because there is a good chance some people buy for reason(s) noted above.....

all the best,

Mike



I'd take a chain over BMWs shaft drive anyday. On a friends beemer I rode the thing torqued to one side (I hate torque steer in my front drive car) and the expensive repairs when needed for that setup are too much.
Odd but most people I've talked to are actually considering the little ABS wee Strom and not the DL1000 as an alternative to the larger beemers.

There are a TON of (affordable) aftermarket solutions out there for better wind protection for the wee right now, I also think that if the Teleleaver front end on the beemers was such a great idea the other manufactures would have their own version of it. Just another case of change only for the sake of change.

A bike I may be looking at closely down the road is the new VVTI shaft drive Concours.....But only if they found a way to do away with the torque steer.

Dan
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