ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Beasts
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-18-2007, 09:37 AM   #61
RiverRat280
Studly Adventurer
 
RiverRat280's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Wisconsinite lost in Eugene Orygun
Oddometer: 751
WHO CARES, I thought we bought bikes for fun and enjoyment. I own a BMW and like it allot, ShortonSKill has a VStrom and likes it allot, I thought thats what its about. It would be boring if we all had the same bike. If I wanted to do the most practicle thing I'd buy a Honda Civic.
__________________
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who niether enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat"

-Theodore Roosevelt
RiverRat280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 09:44 AM   #62
ulendo
lunatic fringe
 
ulendo's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Okanagan, BC, Canada
Oddometer: 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortOnSkill
Why would I want any bike over 10 years old?

Parking outside? You have a point. However, anyone who must do this obviously purchased beyond their means. Unable to afford a proper house and buying expensive toys? What would this person's retirement account look like?
Monty python have your annual award waiting for you - 'upper' class twit of the year.
__________________
2006 Buell XB9Sx - You never know what'll work till you try it
ulendo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:07 AM   #63
Scary Mc
hellgrammite
 
Scary Mc's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: The Junk, CO
Oddometer: 3,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortOnSkill
Why would I want any bike over 10 years old? Outdated technology. Electronics that can't be depended upon.
Parking outside? You have a point. However, anyone who must do this obviously purchased beyond their means. Unable to afford a proper house and buying expensive toys? What would this person's retirement account look like?
You are a complete dildo.
__________________
It's a friggen motorcycle, it's not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The windnoise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you shit your pants every now and then.
Scary Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:10 AM   #64
ShortOnSkill
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 1,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat280
WHO CARES, I thought we bought bikes for fun and enjoyment. I own a BMW and like it allot, ShortonSKill has a VStrom and likes it allot, I thought thats what its about. It would be boring if we all had the same bike. If I wanted to do the most practicle thing I'd buy a Honda Civic.
Complete agreement from my corner. The best bike for rider X is the one that makes him smile.

Since this thread is about reliability, it seemed appropriate to give BMW the beating they deserves. I love BMW's GS. Best adventure bike in every comparison I've read. The Strom will be replaced with a GS or KTM in a few years. While the Strom makes me smile, I want variety.

Data indicates that BMW has second place reliability. Perhaps at KTM levels. Advertising this sad fact will bring about improvement. Hopefully before my next purchase.
__________________
K3 DL1000 - Sold after 55,000 very fun miles.
ShortOnSkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:23 AM   #65
ShortOnSkill
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 1,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary Mc
You are a complete dildo.
That bit of slang has multiple definitions. Care to elaborate with a more intellectual response?
__________________
K3 DL1000 - Sold after 55,000 very fun miles.
ShortOnSkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:33 AM   #66
Scary Mc
hellgrammite
 
Scary Mc's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: The Junk, CO
Oddometer: 3,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortOnSkill
That bit of slang has multiple definitions. Care to elaborate with a more intellectual response?
I think that you understand the intended meaning.
__________________
It's a friggen motorcycle, it's not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The windnoise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you shit your pants every now and then.
Scary Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:34 AM   #67
markjenn
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Swellvue, WA
Oddometer: 10,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ergo
Frozen chains, cheesy handlebars, dry rubbery bits, rusted steel painted vs. billet hardware, crumbling seat covers, self destructing grips, pitted valve guides, blow by, engines that can't be cost effectively rebuilt, etc.

There's a strong financial reason Suzuki typically offers the worst warranty 12k/12 mos in the biz.
First, Suzuki's 12-mo warranties are unlimited miles like virtually all of the other Japanese bikes and most bikes in general. BMW is a bit of an exception in offering a 3-yr warranty in the states on most bikes, but you can buy an extended warranty for virtually any bike for a few hundred. So you can basically match a BMW warranty at a small extra cost. It's really a pretty minor point.

On the "cheesy component" comment, again, Suzuki uses basically the same cheesy components that are on competitive Japanese bikes. You really have to be splitting hairs to draw meaningful fit/finish differences between the big four Japanese mfgs - they all use the same sub-suppliers and even mfg many of their bikes in the same factories, so the differences are small.

I agree BMWs have somewhat better components and fit/finish, particularly in things like accessories. A BMW heated grip installation or factory hard bag is in a whole different class from a Suzuki. Of course you pay for that - heated grips are nearly $300 on most BMWs and its not hard to spend half of a V-Strom on options and accessories for a top-end BMW.

- Mark
markjenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:38 AM   #68
Pelon
Dia Por Dia
 
Pelon's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Oddometer: 1,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortOnSkill
I suspect that BMW's high price has something to do with expensive German labor laws and an over valued dollar.

Ummmmmm . . . . by "over valued dollar," I assume you mean the opposite. In other words, the exchange rate between the Euro and the dollar, which 5 years ago allowed U.S. persons to purchase Euros for about .75, now require us to pay approximately 1.25. This had the effect of raising the true price that we paid for European imports. Most manufacturers of consumer durables, though, compensated by reducing their profit margins and "took it in the shorts" in order to spur continued sales. Not sure how it affected BMW, but I don't recall their prices increasing significantly.
Pelon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:48 AM   #69
ShortOnSkill
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 1,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelon
Ummmmmm . . . . by "over valued dollar," I assume you mean the opposite. In other words, the exchange rate between the Euro and the dollar, which 5 years ago allowed U.S. persons to purchase Euros for about .75, now require us to pay approximately 1.25. This had the effect of raising the true price that we paid for European imports. Most manufacturers of consumer durables, though, compensated by reducing their profit margins and "took it in the shorts" in order to spur continued sales. Not sure how it affected BMW, but I don't recall their prices increasing significantly.
Great catch.
__________________
K3 DL1000 - Sold after 55,000 very fun miles.
ShortOnSkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:52 AM   #70
BMR
Beastly Adventurer
 
BMR's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Oddometer: 1,748
let's get back to the title

The thread says: Suzuki beats BMW in Quality.


QUOTE
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In the 3 areas that rated the actual products the mfgs produce - product, quality, and cost of ownership - Suzuki beat BMW.

Product: BMW 4, Suzuki 4 = tie

Quality: BMW 4, Suzuki 5 = Suzuki wins with a 20% higher score and ties Honda as the highest of all 10 rated brands

Cost of Ownership: BMW 2, Suzuki 4 = Suzuki wins with a 40% higher score.

Combined Score for these 3 product areas: BMW 10, Suzuki 13

A clear win for Suzuki in the quality dept and combined score.

----------------------------------------------------------------


This is quite subjective, for it has has already been pointed out, fit, finish and level of materials used puts Suzuki behind BMW...so again, surveys are so vague and ambiguous .

For the record, I currently own neither of these brands.
BMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 10:59 AM   #71
trailbuster30
Gotta Wee
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Spokane Wa.
Oddometer: 48
Awhile back it was mentioned that BMW owners are more experienced bikers than someone who would buy a bike like a DL650, who tend to be first time owners.
BMW owners tend to maybe have more $$$ than a Strom owner, does that mean they are smarter buyers?
At my local BMW dealer they have TONS of VERY low mileage Beemers, Hell they look brand new maybe 800 to 2000mi on them. I asked why so many like new used beemers?. The salesman said excutives, lawyers, company owners buy'em then trade'em in in a few months, and he was right, while I was there I spotted several suits wandering around the bikes.


So my question is, are these (for the most part) the so called experienced BMW owners we're talking about?
With buying habits like this how in the hell would you know how well made they really are ?

I can't afford to buy a new bike every time I get an urge, as a result most folks like me keep and use a bike a LONG time. All my rides in over 40 years have been thoroughly tested. I routinely pick up old Honda CBs, SLs from the original owners well over 30 years old that for the most part still perform well.

I had thought about going broke to buy a beemer BUT it always came down to the reliability issue in proportion to the amount spent that kept me from taking the plunge.


Dan
trailbuster30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 11:16 AM   #72
ShortOnSkill
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 1,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR
This is quite subjective, for it has has already been pointed out, fit, finish and level of materials used puts Suzuki behind BMW...so again, surveys are so vague and ambiguous .

For the record, I currently own neither of these brands.
Your position relies on the concern that JD Power MIGHT have made a poor survey. Sample selection techniques and wording of individual questions are key in determining whether the survey was valid. The questions are grouped into larger categories. It appears that you're looking at larger categories to make judgements about individual questions.

While I agree with your question,in principle, JD Power is quite reputable. They've been in doing this stuff since 1968. More than enough time to learn proper survey building.

Are you looking at categories to make inferences about survey details? If not, what am I missing?
__________________
K3 DL1000 - Sold after 55,000 very fun miles.
ShortOnSkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 11:25 AM   #73
ShortOnSkill
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 1,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulendo
Monty python have your annual award waiting for you - 'upper' class twit of the year.
My comment was made because I'm solid middle class.

I'm from the generation that cannot expect Social Security in retirement. Hence, I must be careful with money. Assets before toys with an eye for the future. I exited college and worked for seven years before purchasing my first motorcycle.

However, as a twit, I must point out your choice in verbs. "Monty Python has" rather than "Monty Python have."
__________________
K3 DL1000 - Sold after 55,000 very fun miles.
ShortOnSkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 11:29 AM   #74
ulendo
lunatic fringe
 
ulendo's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Okanagan, BC, Canada
Oddometer: 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortOnSkill
My comment was made because I'm solid middle class.

I'm from the generation that cannot expect Social Security in retirement. Hence, I must be careful with money. Assets before toys with an eye for the future. I exited college and worked for seven years before purchasing my first motorcycle.

However, as a twit, I must point out your choice in verbs. "Monty Python has" rather than "Monty Python have."
that would depend on whether you determine Monty Python to be 1st person, or second person singular, would it not?

second perspective on your response: why would you want an adventure bike thats stored inside? do you really think that striking viking, and others who LIVE off of their bikes for 3 months+ find a quaint, comfy motel every night? Guess they must be beyond their low-class means, but wait, isnt this ADVENTURE rider? How can I store my bike inside in the middle of nowehere Kind of like saying ' Oh no, my bike hasnt been waxed in a year, and I have scuff marks on my hand guards'!

A comment on 'living beyond their means' can ONLY be done to incite argument, and troll for trouble. Frankly, if you've got to be THAT careful with your money, I'd say that YOU shouldnt be on an ADV bike, (or possibly any bike) since, by definition, they're used for challanging riding, and you risk totalling your investment. (your alternate option is that you dont actually ADV ride, and are just a poser...so take your pick)
__________________
2006 Buell XB9Sx - You never know what'll work till you try it

ulendo screwed with this post 02-18-2007 at 01:45 PM
ulendo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2007, 11:34 AM   #75
BMR
Beastly Adventurer
 
BMR's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Oddometer: 1,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortOnSkill
Are you looking at categories to make inferences about survey details? If not, what am I missing?

Fair comments, however, first I notice you own a Suzuki.....now does that influence your position on the validity of the suvey? As stated, I own neither.

Personally, I have seen Suzukis parked outside in the elements with other bikes and the difference is quite noticable

My main question would be "what was the question (or questions) that determined how QUALITY was determined"?

Yes, JD Power has been around, however, what is deemed important to experienced motorcyclists may have not been a category or sampling question asked in the survey.

A difference in opinion makes the world go around, but this survey will not have one iota of affect on how I choose my next motorcycle.

(and dare I say most others who visit similar websites as this beauty)
BMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014