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Old 02-02-2014, 03:41 PM   #13726
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0405canvet View Post
Drilling the slide and cutting the spring are to increase acceleration.
More horsepower are required in order to increase acceleration. In the example I provided, drilling the slide produced less horsepower. Cutting the spring will allow the slide to open further for a given intersection of throttle position and rpm at the beginning of the travel since the preload will have been reduced. At some point later in the travel however, the increased spring rate will do the opposite, that is it will prevent the slide from opening as far as it had prior to cutting. Unfortunately the additional opening that the slide does in the beginning doesn't happen in a manner that is divorced from needle movement, and it turns out that there isn't really any additional breathing provided by the increase in slide height, but there is additional fuel provided by having pulled the needle further out of the emulsion tube, hence the resultant richer mixture at lower rpm vs.higher.
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Tapering the needle (which does not increase wear), drilling the airbox and grinding the header increase the power.
Agreed that modifying a stock needle is not likely to increase wear (although d-shaping the white spacer will). Agreed that opening a DR650's airbox is likely to increase power (when jetted correctly) and that grinding the header weld is likely to increase power. However, the best power for a given combination of throttle position and rpm will be achieved when there is the correct mixture at each. Unfortunately a modified needle reduces the number of intersections of throttle position and rpm where this is possible (for a given clip position and given rest of the jetting).
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Our modified DR's run perfectly in Australia.
Without data to qualify and quantify the assertion, the phrase "run perfectly" is meaningless.
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Extra wear on parts?? Keep the breather clean!!
If you mean limit the ingress of dirt through the breather, then you are correct. Preventing the ingress of dirt will reduce slide guide, slide, and therefore emulsion tube and jet needle wear. If you mean do not allow the filter to get dirty, the opposite may be true, as the additional dirt may present an additional barrier to ingress.
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Portly now has over 40,000kms on his completely stock carb.
I thought you were extolling the virtues of needle modification, slide drilling and spring clipping.
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Comments like "unbelievable", couldn't be happier, are why these almost free ($10 main) mods were developed.
Cutting the airbox (if desired), installing the correct main jet and adjusting the needle to the correct clip position will be even easier and produce better results (BTW, by U.S. standards, $10.00 for a main jet is more than double what you should pay).

Regards,

Derek
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Old 02-02-2014, 03:55 PM   #13727
motolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0405canvet View Post
Experienced riders can tell when changes work.
No matter how experienced, they are no substitute for a 5-gas exhaust analyzer-equipped eddy current brake dyno and an operator who understands how to interpret the data.
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Ask Garth, he just got back from 40,000kms thru South America!
Ask him to measure the depth of the depressions concentric to the bore in the bottom corners of the face of the slide guide and report back.
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His choice? Gord's mods not a DJ kit!
I'm glad of that, as I wouldn't recommend the DynoJet kit to anyone.
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Because they work and cost nothing!
Some of what you claim works is likely to and some not, and there are definitely costs associated with some of them.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:57 PM   #13728
DRjoe
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Motolab you have to remember your 5 gas analyser results don't translate the same in Australia, our air molecules are structured the opposite way round than your American ones so jetting for Australia is a bit different to American jetting.

If you google "inverted air molecules" you'll be able to find the equation that will allow you to convert your jetting results to Australian.


Hope that helps you on your quest for the diaphragm carb grail.
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:11 PM   #13729
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Originally Posted by DRjoe View Post
Motolab you have to remember your 5 gas analyser results don't translate the same in Australia, our air molecules are structured the opposite way round than your American ones so jetting for Australia is a bit different to American jetting.

If you google "inverted air molecules" you'll be able to find the equation that will allow you to convert your jetting results to Australian.


Hope that helps you on your quest for the diaphragm carb grail.
Thanks so much for setting me straight. Now it makes sense why 0405canvet mentioned that it was a shame that I'm in America.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:38 PM   #13730
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Originally Posted by nazza View Post
Was riding along yesterday and check How many km charlie has done.. 67k+ then I noticed there's no room for 6 figures.. what happens if I get to 100000???? ;)

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It goes back to zero and you can do it all over again, or you could make up a classified ad something like

Suzuki DR650, one careful owner, ridden only to church and back,
never been off road, never ridden in the rain, super low KM for age.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:16 PM   #13731
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Motolab, thank you for all your information and interest in helping your Australian clients. I will put my 10km. test loop up against your dyno anytime as I actually ride the bike outside. Subtle changes can be picked up by continual testing under the same conditions only minutes apart. 40 years of experience doing this helps. The trouble I could have saved with a dyno, maybe? Hundreds of combinations and swapping back and forth to test and retest has resulted in an Australian setting that has worked every time so far. Acceleration can be improved in the BST by carefully matching the air and fuel. Pumpers add fuel in relation to speed of throttle application. The BST with drilled slide and cut spring add fuel slightly slower but just as effectively. With increased vacuum more fuel is available sooner so having more air available also with drilled airbox results in increased acceleration and horsepower. They must be carefully matched as my settings seem to be. So far we have seen no increase in wear of any parts. Dyno charts available in here somewhere.
Your dyno does not see the increase in acceleration or how the bike pulls from 50km/h in 5th gear, still pulling hard at 150km/h into the wind, no down shift necessary on the hills like a stock bike or smooth traction on my enduro loop up the slippery hill after the tight corner. My friends see this. Also on my personal bike, fuel milage from 18.2 km/l to 22-23km/l now. Others might get slightly less but they are much bigger than I. Questioning the status quo is what gets improvements. Mine don't cost much and that seems to piss some people off. I only want to help DR riders enjoy their bikes more.
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:29 PM   #13732
robmoto
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Ok you two blokes what grade octane rating of fuel are you using as this might explain some differences in opion eg, 91 / 95/ 98 rating.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:14 PM   #13733
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0405Canvet:
I too agree with all you have said.
I drilled the slide, when told not too, because 'it will wear the slide'. 50,000km later, the slide still looks good. And yes, l noticed a difference in throttle response immediately, especially decelleration.
I have had discussions with our USA counterparts, regarding the 'Australian' version BST carby, especially the adjustible needle and the 'D' recess in the base of the slide, to be told l did not understand what l was saying.
In the end l just gave up the discussion and went riding!

So mate, dont bother with the BS that sometimes occurs on here. I'd rather listen/talk to a hands-on rider anyday, as would most bloke/sheila's here.

Cheers Dobbo
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:26 PM   #13734
motolab
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Originally Posted by dobbo View Post
I drilled the slide, when told not too, because 'it will wear the slide'. 50,000km later, the slide still looks good.
Please measure the depth of the depressions concentric to the bore in the bottom corners of the face of the slide guide and report back.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:34 PM   #13735
DRjoe
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Derek you really need to work on your people skills.
It was this kind of posting that got you booted from the chassis list.

Just chill out and realise the right way isn't always the right way for everyone in the real world.
You've added your points and explained everything in detail and I'm sure everyone appreciates your input but maybe you need to learn that its not a bad thing if people don't agree with you all the time.

Take a chill pill brother and relax a bit.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:51 PM   #13736
racca
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Originally Posted by DRjoe View Post
Derek you really need to work on your people skills.
It was this kind of posting that got you booted from the chassis list.

Just chill out and realise the right way isn't always the right way for everyone in the real world.
You've added your points and explained everything in detail and I'm sure everyone appreciates your input but maybe you need to learn that its not a bad thing if people don't agree with you all the time.

Take a chill pill brother and relax a bit.
+1
And a lot more polite than I would put it.
He sounds like an engineer.
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Old 02-03-2014, 12:31 AM   #13737
pzs
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20+km/ltr. for a Dr 650.
I have all the mods to stock carb, gsx muffler, bla bla, have done a number of eco runs into the desert, bike runs brilliant, only the slightest of black/gray (finger is almost clean when wiped)at muffler still only 17/ltr, I am running at 120km what do everyone else getting 20=KM/LTS cruise at to get this.
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Old 02-03-2014, 12:46 AM   #13738
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Originally Posted by racca View Post
+1
And a lot more polite than I would put it.
He sounds like an engineer.
dunno about previous threads but i thought everyone is being fairly chilled out compared to some of the, er, "discussions" i've seen happen on advrider.

i must admit i'm a canvet convert as gordon spent an entire day doing each mod step by step, and i rode a set course each time to see the noticeable improvements each time, and even compared to the JD jetting kit. i was sold, and still am.

but as a bit of a science geek, i must admit that using a "butt dyno" is open to perceptual biases, as they call them psychology. i agree with motolab that the ideal would be running each step with an exhaustive (oops, a pun) dyno and emssions test in between. but the DR has been going great for ages so i'm a happy chappy in any case.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:07 AM   #13739
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Originally Posted by B1 View Post
dunno about previous threads but i thought everyone is being fairly chilled ot compared to some of the, er, "discussions" i've seen happen on advrider.

i must admit i'm a canvet convert as gordon spent an entire day doing each mod step by step, and i rode a set course each time to see the noticeable improvements each time, and even compared to the JD jetting kit. i was sold, and still am.

but as a bit of a science geek, i must admit that using a "butt dyno" is open to perceptual biases, they call them psychology. i agree with motolab that the ideal would be running etep with an exhaustive (oops, a pun) dyno and emssions test in between. but the DR has been going great for ages so i'm a happy chappy in any case.
Hey Barry

As a fellow science geek I know where you're coming from. But it's not always beer and skittles. When I fitted the pumper carb to the DR I took it to a reputable , well known shop to tune it. They dyno tuned it and gave me a nice laminated piece of paper with a pretty graph showing a nice even curve with fair power increases. I rode out and immediately didn't like it. Next major service, tried a different shop albeit sans dyno.They tuned it and it was night and day stuff. Still could be better I think, but still a vast improvement. My only point is all the computers and textbooks in the world dont match experience and time in the saddle. Hence the engineer comment. All textbooks and no play make homer go crazy.

In the end who cares, it's just a DR.

Happy trails

Mark
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:27 AM   #13740
Big Willy
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Didn't realise DR Joe was so eloquent

Pardon me if I've missed it but Motolab, have you tried Gordon's mods on a DR on your dyno? Back to back tests with your own mods would be very interesting
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