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Old 03-27-2007, 09:57 AM   #1
magli OP
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Question Kick-starting LC4 with dead battery?

Greetings..

This winter, I had to put my LC4 ('99 E) in the garage for three months due to my insurance policy. Since I almost always use the kick-starter, I figured that I did not care if the battery went dead, so I did not even bother taking it out when I left the bike.

Sure enough, it was completely dead when I brought the bike out the other day... So I got prepared: put on my left-boot, and started kicking away. I was getting nothing- nada. After about a half hour of trying (and by this time, questioning which position of the emergeny starter was "on".. and having to continusouly switch between the two positions to make sure), I finally rolled it over to a mechanic, who suggested that it was possible that you could not start the bike if the battery was dead.

So, I got the battery out, and gave it to him to charge for me - I also noted that without the battery, my spark plug was definitely *not* sparking when I was kicking.

Once the battery was charged, I put it back in, and was able to kick-start the bike without a problem. Now me's happy.

But was this just a coincidence, or is it not possible to start the bike without a battery?

Say my battery just mysteriously dies on me when I am deep in the forrest - does that leave me stranded?

cheers.
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:33 AM   #2
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The electric start LC4's need the battery to power up the Kokusan ignition. It only requires a little bit of power, but if the battery is dead flat or disconnected, it won't start from a kick. You can't kick it over fast enough to generate enough stator power to energize it.

The earlier kick only model LC4's had an SEM ignition that didn't need any battery power at all to run.
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:47 AM   #3
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Dead battery... re-wireding possible to kick over?

As it's been mentioned that the previous models were capable of being kicked over under the condition there's no charge in the battery or no battery at all(?)... my question is whether or not a 2003 (2001-2005) LC4 is capable of being re-wired such that it can be kicked over with a dead battery??
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:56 AM   #4
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I've always thought that an electrically inclined lady or gent could put together some type of a small jumper circuit (maybe a capacitor or some such other energy storing electronic gizmo) which would allow removal of the battery and thus lower weight for serious offroad jaunts. I tried kicking mine for days this spring but finally had to give in and just charge the dang thing to get it started.

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Old 03-27-2007, 11:03 AM   #5
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Well, at least I know it ain't just me now....Kinda defeats the whole purpose of kick starter doesn't it?
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:56 AM   #6
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Sometimes, even a weak but not dead battery will not start an LC4. Many times I've encountered an LC4 that will turn over for quite a while with the starter, but it's not enough to get it to light off. The kick starter can be much more effective than a weak battery (if you know the 4 stroke starting drill) in starting an ornery LC4.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:09 PM   #7
magli OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP4
Sometimes, even a weak but not dead battery will not start an LC4. Many times I've encountered an LC4 that will turn over for quite a while with the starter, but it's not enough to get it to light off. The kick starter can be much more effective than a weak battery (if you know the 4 stroke starting drill) in starting an ornery LC4.
I agree that using the kick starter is often more efficient - which is why I let my battery go dead in the first place.. the problem we are refering to here is that if your battery goes dead, you can not even kick start it anymore!

It is an important thing to know - as I found out from other posts here, I am not the only one who wasted a lot of time and energy trying to start an LC4 with a dead battery.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:17 PM   #8
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You will still need some charge for the TPS- throttle positioning sensor to operate. I have had to kick the bike when it was cold - below 32degrees.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:39 PM   #9
Ricardo Kuhn
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I'm so glad to know this...

My 640 AdVenture has a weak battery at the moment and I'm being trying to use the kick start to make her go and nothing happends...

hell not even the weak battery will started the bike after being on the charger all night (Yeah I know I need a new battery, since this one does not get fully charge but they cost money i don't have at the moment)

anyway I'm glad to know I did not losse my touch, after all i have kick start only 610 husky's before and they never give me much trouble, even if they can be a Pain to start...
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Old 03-27-2007, 02:54 PM   #10
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i'd be pissed if I was stuck in the middle of the woods and battery crapped out and the kick starter couldn do the job
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Old 03-27-2007, 03:01 PM   #11
Ricardo Kuhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaspipe
The electric start LC4's need the battery to power up the Kokusan ignition. It only requires a little bit of power, but if the battery is dead flat or disconnected, it won't start from a kick. You can't kick it over fast enough to generate enough stator power to energize it.

The earlier kick only model LC4's had an SEM ignition that didn't need any battery power at all to run.
so mister Gaspipe can you install a SEM Ignition module on a electric start version...!?!?

or is the newer Kokusan ignition that much more evolve that will be a waste to use the SEM version.??

I just think is kind of stupid to have a kick start if you need a full charge battery to run the bike anyway, since If the battery was working I will not need to used the kick start in the first place..
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Old 03-27-2007, 03:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn
I just think is kind of stupid to have a kick start if you need a full charge battery to run the bike anyway, since If the battery was working I will not need to used the kick start in the first place..
I completely agree with you. It is stupid, and annoying - and I have already been a victim of this stupidity.

However, at least in my case, the battery does not have to be fully charged in order to kick-start it. In fact, my battery is quite old, and it usually fails to start the bike - it is often too week to even get the motor rotating.... but I can still kick-start the bike. The only time I was unable to kick-start, the battery was so dead that it could not even make the neutral indicator glow when I was in neutral.
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Old 03-27-2007, 07:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magli
...But was this just a coincidence, or is it not possible to start the bike without a battery? Say my battery just mysteriously dies on me when I am deep in the forrest - does that leave me stranded? cheers.
..

I am new to kickstarting (also new to dual sports, KTM, single cylinders not intended to mow the lawn, etc.), so I am merely speculating here: it seems to me that if the battery is out of the bike, you could connect the two leads and kick the bike off.
I may give this theory a shot over the weekend. I could look at the schematic, but what would be the fun in that?
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Old 03-27-2007, 07:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Kuhn
so mister Gaspipe can you install a SEM Ignition module on a electric start version...!?!?

or is the newer Kokusan ignition that much more evolve that will be a waste to use the SEM version.??

I just think is kind of stupid to have a kick start if you need a full charge battery to run the bike anyway, since If the battery was working I will not need to used the kick start in the first place..
The SEM uses a different flywheel, and ignition coil than the Kokusan. You could swap but it would be a step backwards in my opinion, many of your existing electronics would have to go.

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Old 03-27-2007, 08:07 PM   #15
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The SEM system only generated about 130 watts of energy anyway. IMHO, it has a superior advance curve for the LC4, but that's about it.

The smart thing to do is wire a permanent jumper cable off the battery posts so any 12v power source can energize the ignition and you could kick it.

It's a bad system for an adventure bike, IMHO, but then again, you can get a battery for less than $40 new. Get a new one every 2 or 3 years.
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