Is it Fate or; Are we doing this shit to ourselves?

[svs]

This thread might not go very far 'cause it's a heavy subject.

We're in one of three camps.

Fate is the primary factor in our lives.

The Risk we expose ourselves too combined with Skill and Luck determine the outcome of events.

Fuck it, My head is in the sand...

Your Thoughts

[scarysharkface]

While I often refer to fate as a factor in many things, I don't really believe in it. I think we're doing it both to ourselves and to each other, and that a well-placed choice made in your life might just save mine. In not choosing (leaving things up to fate) you still have made a choice, as the Rush song goes...

[workerant]

I believe that skill will get you out of 90% of close calls. Luck will get you out of another 9%. That leaves 1% for fate/karma/whatever you call blind chance.

Improving your skills will improve your odds. Ride smart and wear your gear. But there is an uncontrollable element of risk in riding, as in life.

[ericm]

I do not beleive in fate, especially when it comes to "accidents". There is always something you could have done to prevent it, even when the legal and logical cause is someone else's action. You alone control where you are, what you are doing and what you are paying attention to. God or fate didn't make you twist your wrist or look at the pretty girl instead of traffic. You did.

When you start beleiving in fate, that some "accidents" are unavoidable, you stop trying to keep out of them. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It is human nature to say that the accident you're a victim of was unavoidable. But if you suppress your ego and think about it, you can always figure out what you could have done different/better to avoid it. For every crash and close call that I have had I know, after some thought and sometimes some weeks or months distance, what I could have done to prevent it.

[humvee]

fate - although I don't believe it's pre-determined.

When I think of fate I keep thinking of the faceplants where a millisecond and millimeter made the difference. For example the tire coming off a trailer or truck and striking the motorcycle but leaving the rider unhurt. (undwear ok, but needed 2 wash cycles).

[MagpieGoose]

Originally Posted by workerant

I believe that skill will get you out of 90% of close calls. Luck will get you out of another 9%. That leaves 1% for fate/karma/whatever you call blind chance.

Improving your skills will improve your odds. Ride smart and wear your gear. But there is an uncontrollable element of risk in riding, as in life.

+1

[bross]

Originally Posted by ericm

I do not beleive in fate, especially when it comes to "accidents". There is always something you could have done to prevent it, even when the legal and logical cause is someone else's action. You alone control where you are, what you are doing and what you are paying attention to. God or fate didn't make you twist your wrist or look at the pretty girl instead of traffic. You did.

When you start beleiving in fate, that some "accidents" are unavoidable, you stop trying to keep out of them. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It is human nature to say that the accident you're a victim of was unavoidable. But if you suppress your ego and think about it, you can always figure out what you could have done different/better to avoid it. For every crash and close call that I have had I know, after some thought and sometimes some weeks or months distance, what I could have done to prevent it.

I don't believe that, but then I don't call car crashes '"accidents" either. My definition of accident is "unavoidable", but 99% of car crashes are NOT accidents, they are crashes due to one or the other drivers / riders inattention, ineptitude etc.

There are cases where an accident is unavoidable, due to medical condition etc. a driver passes out, has a heart attack etc.

I do as best as I can to protect myself, by riding ATGATT, safe following distance, having escape routes etc. but being a Christian I also pray every time I get on the bike, and often while riding. I've seen fellow riders die due to poor choices on their part, but I've also seen riders die for no good reason and with the facts that I have, no way of avoiding their "fate". Not my place to decide but I do everything I can to stay safe, I like riding too much.

I like what workerant said:

Originally Posted by workerant

I believe that skill will get you out of 90% of close calls. Luck will get you out of another 9%. That leaves 1% for fate/karma/whatever you call blind chance.

Improving your skills will improve your odds. Ride smart and wear your gear. But there is an uncontrollable element of risk in riding, as in life.

[humvee]

Originally Posted by humvee

fate - although I don't believe it's pre-determined.

Must have been drinking at work again...that makes no sense!

[Monkey_Boy]

Fate? Probably not. Destiny? Obsolutely!

[Waco]

Originally Posted by bross

I don't believe that, but then I don't call car crashes '"accidents" either. My definition of accident is "unavoidable", but 99% of car crashes are NOT accidents, they are crashes due to one or the other drivers / riders inattention, ineptitude etc.

There are cases where an accident is unavoidable, due to medical condition etc. a driver passes out, has a heart attack etc.

I do as best as I can to protect myself, by riding ATGATT, safe following distance, having escape routes etc. but being a Christian I also pray every time I get on the bike, and often while riding. I've seen fellow riders die due to poor choices on their part, but I've also seen riders die for no good reason and with the facts that I have, no way of avoiding their "fate". Not my place to decide but I do everything I can to stay safe, I like riding too much.

I like what workerant said:

Good answer. If you want to get home safely, dress appropriately, ride defensively, read books and/or articles on safe riding, take a class, etc.

[Johann]

What I want to know is.....do people that believe in pre-determinism still look both ways when they cross the road?

[Waco]

Originally Posted by Johann

What I want to know is.....do people that believe in pre-determinism still look both ways when they cross the road?

Use the force, Luke.

[zynthaxx]

I can't think of anything that could possibly happen that couldn't have been avoided in any way.
I don't believe in fate, but I believe in hybris. If you think you're good enough, or if you forget to respect danger, you're about to become toast. I don't believe in divine revenge on a personal level (that is: I don't believe Zeus will send a firebolt up my ass), but I believe in lack of focus.

[Thor]

I don't really know. Well, none of us do, but I never thought of fate as part of riding.

Then a couple years ago I was enjoying myself out on a solo run on the backroads of Wisconsin.

I had to go to the bathroom and was far from any town. I hit a a short, flat, straight stretch of road, but there was a farm house so I was a little hesitant to stop. I decided to stop anyways since the next section was about 16 miles of tight twisty roads.

Just as I slowed to a stop and was about to remove my helmet a milk truck rounded the corner just ahead that cut through a hill. The truck was completely in the left lane. If I would have decided not to stop I would have been at that corner right at the time the milk truck arrived.

There was no run off, just the side of a limestone wall right up to the road and rising straight up 30 feet on either side.

That had me thinking for awhile. There was just nothing that I could have done. No path to avoid the truck, no jumping to try to clear it. Nothing.

Splat!

Was that fate or just an accumulation of random events all culminating in that truck being in that corner at that time and me deciding to stop just before it?

[Waco]

Originally Posted by Thor

I don't really know. Well, none of us do, but I never thought of fate as part of riding.

Then a couple years ago I was enjoying myself out on a solo run on the backroads of Wisconsin.

I had to go to the bathroom and was far from any town. I hit a a short, flat, straight stretch of road, but there was a farm house so I was a little hesitant to stop. I decided to stop anyways since the next section was about 16 miles of tight twisty roads.

Just as I slowed to a stop and was about to remove my helmet a milk truck rounded the corner just ahead that cut through a hill. The truck was completely in the left lane. If I would have decided not to stop I would have been at that corner right at the time the milk truck arrived.

There was no run off, just the side of a limestone wall right up to the road and rising straight up 30 feet on either side.

That had me thinking for awhile. There was just nothing that I could have done. No path to avoid the truck, no jumping to try to clear it. Nothing.

Splat!

Was that fate or just an accumulation of random events all culminating in that truck being in that corner at that time and me deciding to stop just before it?

I don't know who you are or where you heard this story, but Thor died two years ago.