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Old 04-20-2007, 11:52 AM   #151
Max Kool OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachtflug
people defending BMW's higher pricing need to keep in mind that BMW has a long track record of claiming their product is better than the competition and then very conveniently avoiding any direct competition and even to go so far as to host their own race series thereby avoiding any direct competition with the competition in a competition setting.

Bad timing Flug (although totally true), this particular bike we are talking about is directly aimed at at taking on the world top in WEC (World Enduro Championship). Finally they have the guts.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:55 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachtflug
people defending BMW's higher pricing need to keep in mind that BMW has a long track record of claiming their product is better than the competition and then very conveniently avoiding any direct competition and even to go so far as to host their own race series thereby avoiding any direct competition with the competition in a competition setting.

remember last years

"hunting squids on track days" ad?



they roll a 450 out and get totally destroyed by the competition it would suit me just fine.

their smug attitude perpetuated by their low class garbage ad campaigns needs to get shoved right down their throats and a knobby tire attached to a KTM/Honda/Berg/Yamaha etc etc is just the thing to do it.
Damn, dude...
Are you off your meds?? or were you frightened by a BMW when you were a child??
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:56 PM   #153
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you gotta understand the intent here.
bmw is building this bike for bmw buyers and other possible exotic brand buyer. this group of buyers has the $ to spend and are loving riding in the dirt. they have big gs or road bikes and want something light to play on. at the moment they're buying ktm as it's perceived as the equivelant of bmw quality for the dirt. with this and the new x bikes bmw buyers can stay in the bmw fold for a complete range of bikes. the jap mx bikes are not the true competition. they are pereceived in a lower class. bmw would also hope ktm, husky, husaberg, aprillia bikers might cross over to them. the average jap mx rider won't. bmw is also racing to test the product they produce. that's the best way to truely test a mx bike. they never did build bikes that were competive because their motor designs are overbuild and underpowered to longevity, whereas other mfg push the performance envelope to the max with there engine at the sacrifice of some longevity. this looks to be changing.

bmw engine have always proven reliable and long running. there other systems: trannys, rears have been outsourced and the problems. if bmw made these systems as well as their engines i would have never sold mine!
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eakins screwed with this post 04-20-2007 at 01:01 PM
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:57 PM   #154
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Old 04-20-2007, 02:27 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Atlanta
I really don't get everyone's worry about the engine and lack of full frame wrapping around the engine. With a proper skid pan it's all pluses and much easier to service, wash and everything else. Not to mention there is an awful lof of clearance there immediately behind the front wheel. That would be great as that's about one of my biggest bitches of any against my EXC's. I always get that lower front lip of the engine banging off of trees when popping over them. The less meat there and the better the approach angle of that meat and one of my personal hurdles will be helped to overcome.
Gee, I just loft the front wheel and pop over stuff with my EXC, or my friend's Yamaha 450, or my 250 2-stroke or another friend's 200.... The 525 EXC has the added advantage of having a poly resin skid plate that unlike aluminum does not have a tendency to stick on rocks so I glide over if I case it. If you are banging the front of the frame on the EXC on stuff you are not elevated, obviously. You may well stuff the front of the new BMW 450 into logs as well.

Like you I doubt that BMW will release a bike that does not have or offer complete engine protection in a cross country bike. If that is not true then the bike would be great for moneyed poseurs in which case you might want to consider keeping your EXC.

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Old 04-20-2007, 02:54 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu
Gee, I just loft the front wheel and pop over stuff with my EXC, or my friend's Yamaha 450, or my 250 2-stroke or another friend's 200.... The 525 EXC has the added advantage of having a poly resin skid plate that unlike aluminum does not have a tendency to stick on rocks so I glide over if I case it. If you are banging the front of the frame on the EXC on stuff you are not elevated, obviously. You may well stuff the front of the new BMW 450 into logs as well.

Like you I doubt that BMW will release a bike that does not have or offer complete engine protection in a cross country bike. If that is not true then the bike would be great for moneyed poseurs in which case you might want to consider keeping your EXC.

Stu

When I figure out how to loft over a 24" high 12" wet round logs with consistancy I wouldn't even worry about engine protection, cause I'd be going pro, lol
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Old 04-21-2007, 03:13 AM   #157
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To you guys putting down the fact that there is no down tube in front of the engine to protect the engine case - I guess you guys have never ridden 2-stokes.

Yes, they have down tubes, but they also have an expensive tuned pipe between that down tube and the front wheel. Most 2-stokes have a nice fat downturn right there and if do not pop that wheel up onto that log carrying a decent amount of momentum to clear it completely - you just cost yourself a few hundred dollars. If you know your limitations and have the ability to judge what object(s) you should and shouldn’t be tackling – the lack of a down tube should not be an issue.

As one other reader said, a poly resin skid plate does not stick on rocks but helps glide over them. I have seen this myself. The poly does give, while spreading the force over a greater area, at the same time letting the object slide. Most sleds today only have poly resin belly pans and skid plates. I don’t see why this design is a problem when you consider the amount of clearance this bike appears to have, add in a good poly skid plate to help deflect any mistake in judgment and keep the bike moving forward.

Just my 2 cents.

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Old 04-21-2007, 04:17 AM   #158
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I was taking look at the high-res version of the pic over at topspeed.com and just noticed that the bike in that picture already has what appears to be a black poly resin skid plate. Take a look for you self:

http://pictures.topspeed.com/motorcy...ortendurow.jpg

6pyAHNN

P.S. Take a good look at the tail -- it has turn signal marker mounts!!!

6pyAHNN screwed with this post 04-21-2007 at 04:36 AM
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Old 04-21-2007, 05:07 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKINNY
Damn, dude...
Are you off your meds?? or were you frightened by a BMW when you were a child??
It's our friendly adv troll Flug, to know him is to love him... in the meantime, be kind to the troll and encourage him to go play with his red KLR.
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Old 04-21-2007, 05:48 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins
bmw would also hope ktm, husky, husaberg, aprillia bikers might cross over to them.
you're probably right and that is probaly the way they think.


but real world and white collar corporate pipe dreams are two different things.


you think people will jump ship soley because a bike has a roundel on it?
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Old 04-21-2007, 06:13 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachtflug
you think people will jump ship soley because a bike has a roundel on it?
Probably not. Instead I think, some people might switch over to this bike instead it has a roundel.

Maybe a glimps into the europeen market offers some insight. Here most of the 400/450s can be street legal. But making them so forces the manufacturer to some harsh modifications. A street legal 450 EXC has less then 20 hp due to noise and pollution restrictions. (Evan LC4s are restricted rev-wise here in 2nd and 3rd gear.) And they are only street legal because KTM is concidered a "small manufaturer" because they don't sell more than 5000 units a year of this model (in the EU). So who wants to run a street legal EXC?

Suzuki has given up selling the DR-Z 400 S (the E was always difficult to get over here) in 2005 because of the same reasons. I got mine in the sellout about two years ago, a few days before it became illegal to be registered.

All together we have a situation where ist is nearly impossible to buy a street legal enduro in the middle range which is capable to do some racing in an amateur roadbook rallye and can be used to commute. If BMW pulls this off, this is the bike that can. It has fuel injection, we will get it with a catalytic converter (meeting pollution restrictions without these two items will become next to impossible) and it will be street legal without power restriction.

If my DR-Z dies, I'd buy one. This is the first bike that would bring me back to BMW after I sold my R 80 G/S after 17 years a few years ago.
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Old 04-21-2007, 06:22 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandarax
Probably not. Instead I think, some people might switch over to this bike instead it has a roundel.

Maybe a glimps into the europeen market offers some insight. Here most of the 400/450s can be street legal. But making them so forces the manufacturer to some harsh modifications. A street legal 450 EXC has less then 20 hp due to noise and pollution restrictions. (Evan LC4s are restricted rev-wise here in 2nd and 3rd gear.) And they are only street legal because KTM is concidered a "small manufaturer" because they don't sell more than 5000 units a year of this model (in the EU). So who wants to run a street legal EXC?

Suzuki has given up selling the DR-Z 400 S (the E was always difficult to get over here) in 2005 because of the same reasons. I got mine in the sellout about two years ago, a few days before it became illegal to be registered.

All together we have a situation where ist is nearly impossible to buy a street legal enduro in the middle range which is capable to do some racing in an amateur roadbook rallye and can be used to commute. If BMW pulls this off, this is the bike that can. It has fuel injection, we will get it with a catalytic converter (meeting pollution restrictions without these two items will become next to impossible) and it will be street legal without power restriction.

If my DR-Z dies, I'd buy one. This is the first bike that would bring me back to BMW after I sold my R 80 G/S after 17 years a few years ago.
good post.

how they market it in the US remains to be seen. but like I said they tend to have a very smug marketing theme here and never back it up. for years they made the K1200 sound like the fastest thing ever made and they were 40 mph slower than the bikes in its class. the list goes on. but a very good post.
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:10 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachtflug
you think people will jump ship soley because a bike has a roundel on it?
You did. or was that someone else starting those GS sucks threads?
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:24 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SQD8R
You did. or was that someone else starting those GS sucks threads?


well truth be known I jumped on the GS bandwagon because the 1150GS was and still is a great bike. one of the best bikes ever made.

hey at the end of the day if BMW, Buell or Bin Laden can sell me a street legal bike that will loft the front wheel at will and still be able to hold its own in the woods for reasonable money my home equity checkbook is ready to roll. I guess KTM is the closest right now but $8K and then some plus tax is just not going to get me excited.
Not saying I wouldn't buy one because I'm turning 50 this year and the over 50 class calls my name. But if BMW brings this bike in at those prices I'll go with the KTM or a Husaberg just because.

Lets keep in mind this is an Italian outsource from what I've read here. Imagine the complications. Vendors will jack up prices just becasue its BMW writing the check. Remember the big fiasco with the girl who couldn't get the computer module for her F650? took months.

the bike looks promising in pictures but we're a long way from seeing what we'd really be getting for the money and I'll bet it's big money.
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:00 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachtflug


well truth be known I jumped on the GS bandwagon because the 1150GS was and still is a great bike. one of the best bikes ever made.
That is interesting. It sheds new light on your posts in this thread. I think you secretly hate yourself for liking a bike which belongs to a brand that sucks so much.
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