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Old 05-27-2009, 06:38 PM   #1531
Klay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyinhilo
Klay,

Do you have a wiring diagram you could post? I thought you did before, but I can't find it. If I can see that maybe I can figure this out for ReT.

Thanks Andy
I can't find it. I may have it on my computer at home...I can put it up when I get home.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:03 PM   #1532
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:10 PM   #1533
Andyinhilo
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Thanks Klay! Maybe I will be able to point Mr. Heretik in the right direction after I study it a bit.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:04 AM   #1534
Andyinhilo
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Electrical stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeReTiK
Help!

My DR200, my daily driver, will not start. I am certain it is a electrical issue. This problem is intermittently preventing the bike from starting. Sometimes I will be driving and the bike will die completely.

- All electrical stuff works fine when ignition is turned on(Lights, horn, etc.)
- When shorted, starter relay turns starter motor but bike refuses to start.
- After testing, I discovered the starter button is NOT even getting voltage. This means obviously I have a problem very early on in the circuit.

The weird thing is that it's not just a problem with the electric start, it's a problem that is completely preventing the bike from starting.

Please help!

- HeReTiK
Well...

Thanks to the electrical diagram from Klay, and reading through the troubleshooting steps in the DR650 manual (same basic ignition/starter systems) it looks like the only components that affect both the ignition and starter circuits are the ignition switch, kill switch, and the side stand switch and relay (and their associated connectors and wiring).

The ignition switch is likely OK if the lights are working.

Check for battery voltage between the Orange/White and Black/White wires at the CDI unit. If the voltage is low or 0, the side stand switch, relay, or connections are bad; or the relay is not getting power.

It is also possible that the kill switch is not sending power to the starter switch, clutch switch and the side stand relay. Maybe you could take the switch apart and check all the connections and contacts inside.

Did you ever get the service manual? It should have a complete diagram, and simplified ones that show the start and ignition circuits, along with troubleshooting flowcharts. That may help you make some sense of what I described above.
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Andyinhilo screwed with this post 05-28-2009 at 12:13 AM
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:24 AM   #1535
HeReTiK
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First off - thanks Andy and Klay for your help. I would be lost without you guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyinhilo
The ignition switch is likely OK if the lights are working.
Yeah, that's what I figured. Everything like lights and horn are working with the exception of the elctric start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyinhilo
Check for battery voltage between the Orange/White and Black/White wires at the CDI unit. If the voltage is low or 0, the side stand switch, relay, or connections are bad; or the relay is not getting power.
Neither the O/W nor the White wire going to the CDI is getting voltage. (This was with the ground wire of the multimeter connected to the ground battery terminal and probing each metal connector with the red probe...)
Btw, battery is reading 12V as is the large positive terminal on the starter relay/solenoid.

- The sidestand switch is getting 1V at the G/W wire.
- Both my rear turn signals are disconnected, would this affect the circuit in any way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyinhilo
It is also possible that the kill switch is not sending power to the starter switch, clutch switch and the side stand relay. Maybe you could take the switch apart and check all the connections and contacts inside.
Done.

- I bypassed the clutch safety switch, which isn't even getting voltage.
- I've tested the starter button/kill switch assembly thoroughly and have found nothing wrong other than the fact that neither of the orange wires are even carrying voltage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyinhilo
Did you ever get the service manual? It should have a complete diagram, and simplified ones that show the start and ignition circuits, along with troubleshooting flowcharts. That may help you make some sense of what I described above.
I did actually. I've been pouring over it all morning. :(

Another thing I just tried was replacing the diode(The 3 prong thingy, I think) because I had an extra one lying around. No difference.

Any other ideas? I think the key to this is the fact that the problem is affecting BOTH the electric start and is preventing start by any other means...

Thanks for the the help.

- ReT
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:30 AM   #1536
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Did a little more testing.

- Ignition switch is definitely fine. The red wire going in is reading 12V, and when the switch is turned on, both the Orange and Green connections are reading 12V.
- The 6-Wire male connection block with primarily orange wires that goes to the Kill Switch/Start button assembly has one wire reading 12V. However, neither of the two orange wires that come out on the other end are carrying any voltage. I wonder if the connection block thingy is bad.... ? That would certainly explain it... I think?

HeReTiK screwed with this post 05-28-2009 at 08:58 AM
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:48 AM   #1537
Andyinhilo
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I think you found it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeReTiK
Did a little more testing.

- Ignition switch is definitely fine. The red wire going in is reading 12V, and when the switch is turned on, both the Orange and Green connections are reading 12V.
- The 6-Wire male connection block with primarily orange wires that goes to the Kill Switch/Start button assembly has one wire reading 12V. However, neither of the two orange wires that come out on the other end are carrying any voltage. I wonder if the connection block thingy is bad.... ? That would certainly explain it... I think?
That is certainly a problem. There is probably some corrosion in the connection block. Pull that thing apart, clean it up, and try to get the juice flowing through it. Then see what you have. You have to get 12V to that kill switch before anything else will work.
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."J. Cooper
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:23 PM   #1538
SquirrelyGrl
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Stories?

[quote=Klay]Looks like a great setup! Got any stories?[/q

Just some good times. My DR exaggerates, making it look like i'm hard core. I ride with a guy who has a KLR, which he gave me the motivation to pursue my lifelong dream of owning a motorcycle.
Our my first off-road ride was quite a surprise, as I had only had the dr for a couple of months and previously, had never even driven one. In the local area of Chattanooga, TN there is a Wildlife place on Signal Mtn.
Prentice Cooper was to be my virgin ride of off-roading. To many this may not seem as a big ordeal, but I hadn't ridden much at all and holy cow! We took some pretty light and fun whoopty-do trails, in the beginning.
Then all of a sudden a light, soft substance was underneath my tires, what?! Sand! OMG! What fun! After I had dropped it a couple of times, I knew immediately, that landing in sand is much nicer on the legs than dropping on the hard, huge rock part of the trail. I must have dropped my bike 10 or 12 times on my first ride, including a creek crossing, which wasn't too bad. One would think as scratched, bruised, and broken as my DR was, and myself I would have not ridden again. Actually, that thought never came into my mind.
I wanted more!!! Give me creeks, sand and intensly hard uphills with large rock obstacles! I want more!!
After my first off-road ride in April 2007, my riding has greatly improved, I've expanded riding to overnight camping. The first overnighter was in the Blue Ridge Wildlife Mgt Area, near the AT, back in Feb. 2009.

Other than that, my DR has certainly earned the dents and dings.
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:16 PM   #1539
HeReTiK
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I fixed it! Yay!

The problem: A dirty ignition/sidestand relay(This is the block with 6 wires going into it under the seat). None of the wires going to it appeared to be loose, so I think it was just dirty. I sprayed it liberally with WD-40. I'm going to keep an eye on it for a while but everything is working fine.

Thanks Andy and Klay!

Unfortionately, I made a stupid mistake as I was putting everything back together. When I installed the Yamaha Raptor Petcock on the gas tank a few months ago, I bent back the lip on the bottom of the tank to permit the free movement of the valve. Since then I've wanted to try and trim it off. So today, I bend it back and forth a few times and it pops off, great, everything is good. Wrong. I had no idea this was a seam for the gas tank. Now the tank is gushing gas from the seam if I try to fill it. I drained the tank and hung it upside down so that the gas will evaporate from the tank so I can take it to a welder tomorrow morning. Tomorrow I gotta hit the yellow pages trying to find a local place that will take care of it. Ugh. :( I'm an idiot. As much as I like the Yamaha Petcock, I don't think it was worth all this trouble. What I SHOULD have done was just carefully grind down a small bit of the lip.

Any suggestions on what sort of places would fix this for me? All I need is someone to weld this small seam back together. I'm guessing it's like a 5 minute job or less....

Curse my stupidity . ;) At least I fixed my electrical problem. Yay for persistance. :)

- ReT
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:33 PM   #1540
Andyinhilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeReTiK
I fixed it! Yay!

The problem: A dirty ignition/sidestand relay(This is the block with 6 wires going into it under the seat). None of the wires going to it appeared to be loose, so I think it was just dirty. I sprayed it liberally with WD-40. I'm going to keep an eye on it for a while but everything is working fine.

Thanks Andy and Klay!

Unfortionately, I made a stupid mistake as I was putting everything back together. When I installed the Yamaha Raptor Petcock on the gas tank a few months ago, I bent back the lip on the bottom of the tank to permit the free movement of the valve. Since then I've wanted to try and trim it off. So today, I bend it back and forth a few times and it pops off, great, everything is good. Wrong. I had no idea this was a seam for the gas tank. Now the tank is gushing gas from the seam if I try to fill it. I drained the tank and hung it upside down so that the gas will evaporate from the tank so I can take it to a welder tomorrow morning. Tomorrow I gotta hit the yellow pages trying to find a local place that will take care of it. Ugh. :( I'm an idiot. As much as I like the Yamaha Petcock, I don't think it was worth all this trouble. What I SHOULD have done was just carefully grind down a small bit of the lip.

Any suggestions on what sort of places would fix this for me? All I need is someone to weld this small seam back together. I'm guessing it's like a 5 minute job or less....
Curse my stupidity . ;) At least I fixed my electrical problem. Yay for persistance. :)

- ReT
I would highly recommend a heavy duty epoxy for this repair. That way you wont have burned paint and the possibility of explosion. I had a pal that ruined a beautiful original Z1 tank, after a week of airing it out then filling with water and airing again, when he tried to weld it, whoomph! It cracked the paint all around the seams, and expanded enough that it no longer fit right.

The best thing to use is a product caled Marine-Tex, available at boat and marine supply stores. It will do the job, no worries, and you can do it yourself.
__________________
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."J. Cooper
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:54 PM   #1541
HeReTiK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyinhilo
I would highly recommend a heavy duty epoxy for this repair. That way you wont have burned paint and the possibility of explosion. I had a pal that ruined a beautiful original Z1 tank, after a week of airing it out then filling with water and airing again, when he tried to weld it, whoomph! It cracked the paint all around the seams, and expanded enough that it no longer fit right.

The best thing to use is a product caled Marine-Tex, available at boat and marine supply stores. It will do the job, no worries, and you can do it yourself.
Wow, I didn't realize the risk of explosion was so great, even after taking precautionary steps.

There are no boat/marine stores near me that I am aware of(I will double check though), is there a comparable product that I might find at Home Depot or an auto parts place?

Another thought is JB Weld... seems like it might be perfect for this application... thoughts?

I'm desperate to patch this up ASAP... riding a bicycle everywhere is real pain...!

Thanks!

- ReT

HeReTiK screwed with this post 05-28-2009 at 09:03 PM
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:24 PM   #1542
Klay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrelyGrl
Just some good times. My DR exaggerates, making it look like i'm hard core. I ride with a guy who has a KLR, which he gave me the motivation to pursue my lifelong dream of owning a motorcycle.
Our my first off-road ride was quite a surprise, as I had only had the dr for a couple of months and previously, had never even driven one. In the local area of Chattanooga, TN there is a Wildlife place on Signal Mtn.
Prentice Cooper was to be my virgin ride of off-roading. To many this may not seem as a big ordeal, but I hadn't ridden much at all and holy cow! We took some pretty light and fun whoopty-do trails, in the beginning.
Then all of a sudden a light, soft substance was underneath my tires, what?! Sand! OMG! What fun! After I had dropped it a couple of times, I knew immediately, that landing in sand is much nicer on the legs than dropping on the hard, huge rock part of the trail. I must have dropped my bike 10 or 12 times on my first ride, including a creek crossing, which wasn't too bad. One would think as scratched, bruised, and broken as my DR was, and myself I would have not ridden again. Actually, that thought never came into my mind.
I wanted more!!! Give me creeks, sand and intensly hard uphills with large rock obstacles! I want more!!
After my first off-road ride in April 2007, my riding has greatly improved, I've expanded riding to overnight camping. The first overnighter was in the Blue Ridge Wildlife Mgt Area, near the AT, back in Feb. 2009.

Other than that, my DR has certainly earned the dents and dings.

Thanks for the great story, Squirrelly!
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:27 PM   #1543
Klay
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Looks like you're getting to know that bike inside and out Heretik. Not a bad thing.
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:33 PM   #1544
HeReTiK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klay
Looks like you're getting to know that bike inside and out Heretik. Not a bad thing.
Yeah! Sure it can be a pain in the ass when stuff stops working, but after I fix something I'm always pleased with myself. The more I learn the better, and there is nothing better to learn with than my 97' DR200. ;)
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:47 PM   #1545
Andyinhilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeReTiK
Wow, I didn't realize the risk of explosion was so great, even after taking precautionary steps.

There are no boat/marine stores near me that I am aware of(I will double check though), is there a comparable product that I might find at Home Depot or an auto parts place?

Another thought is JB Weld... seems like it might be perfect for this application... thoughts?

I'm desperate to patch this up ASAP... riding a bicycle everywhere is real pain...!

Thanks!

- ReT
JB Weld should do the job. You might try Ace Hardware for the Marine Tex, the local ones here have it. It works really well for that type of repair, as well as a lot of other stuff.

BTW, congrats on finding the electrical bugaboo. They can be tough.
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