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Old 01-15-2008, 06:08 PM   #226
Klay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNutz
I researched three bikes before making my decision. The 250 Sherpa, the XT225, and the DR200. The XT was the serious contender in my battle, but the DR eventually won hands down. With the mileage and tank size I get about 300kms (200 miles) bush riding above reserve. It has been an awsome machine for me.
That tank was the clincher for me, too. I like the range of the DR200. The XT was a close contender, but didn't have the tank. The DRhas turned out to be very rugged and reliable. I'm very happy and probably will continue to run it for many years.

Happy Trails makes side racks for the DR200 and Kientech has airbox, exhaust, and carb mods to take out a little of the cold-blooded nature of the bike and give it a little more power.
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Old 01-15-2008, 07:16 PM   #227
MacNutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klay
That tank was the clincher for me, too. I like the range of the DR200. The XT was a close contender, but didn't have the tank. The DRhas turned out to be very rugged and reliable. I'm very happy and probably will continue to run it for many years.

Happy Trails makes side racks for the DR200 and Kientech has airbox, exhaust, and carb mods to take out a little of the cold-blooded nature of the bike and give it a little more power.
All the mods I've done myself are way beyond what Kientech does. My engine barks right out of the hole now. The only reason the DRs' are coldblooded is because Suzuki has a bad habit of running all their machines way too lean. If you pull the plug out of an almost new stock Suzuki, you will see that it is almost white on the insulator. That leaves tons of room for richening. The best thing you could do for a DR is to go up one size on the pilot jet (40 to 42.5, I think) immediately. That will cure any cold start issue you might have had.

What is the elevation you usually ride at? I'm starting at sea-level, so I have a really good baseline to start from.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:02 PM   #228
zomby woof
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNutz
First off, what makes you think the drz125 cam would be any better for the 200? I have personally measured all the specs on the dr200 cam and found that mathematically Suzuki has already pushed every number to the max! The valve lift to valve diameter ratio is bang-on for both valves. The timing/overlap is almost to the max for piston clearance, and the duration is in the 326 degree range. There is no more cam for this bike!
At the risk of being a little forward, I must suggest that you not post on topics when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
I have no interest in starting a debate with you, and will tell you right now that I am in the custom camshaft business.
You are not, and have displayed your knowledge of the topic readily.
The Hotcams cam for the DR-Z125 wil, in fact work, and be a reasonable improvement over the stock, and unbelievably mild DR200 cam.
There are a number of available options from a number of other custom grinders.
Megacycle having probably the best looking available profiles.
For reference, I will provide you with the real numbers.

The hot cams specs. are

Int
.324" lift (.240"lobe)
215.5 duration at 1mm
Exh
.315" lift (.240" lobe)
215.5 duration at 1mm

stock DR200 cam
_________lobe lift______valve lift____Duration at .050"
Intake____.245"________.320"_______204
Exhaust___.230"________.290"______ 200

Stock LT230 cam
_________lobe lift______valve lift____Duration at .050"
Intake____.230________.300_________214
Exhaust___.200________.245_________212

If anybody has any interest, here is a link to the original thread http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=435764

It is DR-Z125 specific, but the motors are virtually identical, all the same rules apply, and the cams are interchangeable.

IMO, for the street, something in the order of 230 duration at .050", and lift in the (gross) range of .370"-.400" would be great with a pipe, and ussual 'freebie' mods.
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:09 PM   #229
Klay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNutz
All the mods I've done myself are way beyond what Kientech does. My engine barks right out of the hole now. The only reason the DRs' are coldblooded is because Suzuki has a bad habit of running all their machines way too lean. If you pull the plug out of an almost new stock Suzuki, you will see that it is almost white on the insulator. That leaves tons of room for richening. The best thing you could do for a DR is to go up one size on the pilot jet (40 to 42.5, I think) immediately. That will cure any cold start issue you might have had.

What is the elevation you usually ride at? I'm starting at sea-level, so I have a really good baseline to start from.
I'm at 1000 feet or so. Suzuki has to lean it way out to meet emissions regulations. It was really only a problem in cold weather...otherwise, even stock, they work remarkably well...from here at 1,000 feet to 14,000 feet in Colorado. They ran beautifully at 14,000 feet. I was reluctant to alter anything, but I'm doing both bikes now that I find out how nice the change is for cold-weather riding. I'm not changing anything any more, because I like the conservative state of tune.
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:54 AM   #230
MacNutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zomby woof
At the risk of being a little forward, I must suggest that you not post on topics when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
I have no interest in starting a debate with you, and will tell you right now that I am in the custom camshaft business.
You are not, and have displayed your knowledge of the topic readily.
The Hotcams cam for the DR-Z125 wil, in fact work, and be a reasonable improvement over the stock, and unbelievably mild DR200 cam.
There are a number of available options from a number of other custom grinders.
Megacycle having probably the best looking available profiles.
For reference, I will provide you with the real numbers.

The hot cams specs. are

Int
.324" lift (.240"lobe)
215.5 duration at 1mm
Exh
.315" lift (.240" lobe)
215.5 duration at 1mm

stock DR200 cam
_________lobe lift______valve lift____Duration at .050"
Intake____.245"________.320"_______204
Exhaust___.230"________.290"______ 200

Stock LT230 cam
_________lobe lift______valve lift____Duration at .050"
Intake____.230________.300_________214
Exhaust___.200________.245_________212

If anybody has any interest, here is a link to the original thread http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=435764

It is DR-Z125 specific, but the motors are virtually identical, all the same rules apply, and the cams are interchangeable.

IMO, for the street, something in the order of 230 duration at .050", and lift in the (gross) range of .370"-.400" would be great with a pipe, and ussual 'freebie' mods.
Without trying to reciprocate in a rude manner (unlike some would), what is your experience with the 200 cam. Have you personally exchanged one for the z125? Have you ever actually taken the measurements? Have you ever taken one of these engines apart?

I had my engine on the bench for a complete teardown with my dial gauge on the valves and my degree wheel on the crank. And yes, I checked the figures about four times because I couldn't believe the numbers. I have personally been building performance engines using computerized software for many years, which I myself run at the local tracks. And yes, I do know what I am talking about. I even sent my cam over to Shadbolt Cams, a regrinding outfit that's been around longer than you and I put together, to see what they could do with it, and they couldn't come up with any significant increase in numbers.

And just curious about your cam figures. If the HOT CAMS intake lobe is lower than the stock DR lobe, how is it that it can open the valve further without changing the rocker ratio? And speaking of rocker ratios, you might want to calc out your comparison on the exhaust valve too. And one more note, as an expert cam-man, you should also be aware that opening a valve any more than 25% of the diameter of the valve is redundant in a naturally aspirated machine (ie: 8mm lift/32mm port). Hence the reason for longer durations and overlap. Oh yeah, what good are the above figures without any mention of degrees of overlap or ICL and ECL?

Please, lets hear more...
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:02 PM   #231
MacNutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klay
I'm at 1000 feet or so. Suzuki has to lean it way out to meet emissions regulations. It was really only a problem in cold weather...otherwise, even stock, they work remarkably well...from here at 1,000 feet to 14,000 feet in Colorado. They ran beautifully at 14,000 feet. I was reluctant to alter anything, but I'm doing both bikes now that I find out how nice the change is for cold-weather riding. I'm not changing anything any more, because I like the conservative state of tune.
You shoud notice a nice benefit coming off the line by upping the pilot jet one size. Have you done your pilot needle screw mod?
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Old 01-16-2008, 04:05 PM   #232
zomby woof
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Like I said, I have no interest in starting a debate with you.
I offered my experience, and knowledge, as an answer to a specific question.
If you don't like it, thats fine.
I am in the business, and you are not.
Nonetheless, you probably know better.
I'll ask Barry (the owner of Shadbolt) about your mystery 200 cam the next time I talk to him, likely tomorrow.
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:12 PM   #233
gdeiss
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gas mileage vs. mods

I, too, would like to have a better running bike, cold weather or otherwise, but I'm wondering what effect the typical airbox/rejet mods would have on my DR200's gas mileage. I'm tempted to do the Kientech mods except for the exhaust but am not sure I want to surrender much mileage for a modest improvement in performance. Does anyone have input on this?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-16-2008, 07:39 PM   #234
miniroot
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Location: Wellington, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdeiss
I, too, would like to have a better running bike, cold weather or otherwise, but I'm wondering what effect the typical airbox/rejet mods would have on my DR200's gas mileage. I'm tempted to do the Kientech mods except for the exhaust but am not sure I want to surrender much mileage for a modest improvement in performance. Does anyone have input on this?
I worried about that too. Down here in Wellington (New Zealand) it's windy and hilly, and the only thing I don't like about the little DR is that it just won't hold 100kph in 5th gear in high wind, or on a steep hill. So I've ordered my jet kit, and Jesse's including instructions on the exhaust mod so that I can get a local exhaust fab to do the business. I'll let you know how I get on. If it works, I'm hoping that I won't see much difference in fuel mileage because I'll spend less time having to drop to 4th and thrash the thing to climb hills.
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Old 01-16-2008, 08:03 PM   #235
MacNutz
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Location: Vancouver Island, The wetland jungles of BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zomby woof
Like I said, I have no interest in starting a debate with you.
I offered my experience, and knowledge, as an answer to a specific question.
If you don't like it, thats fine.
I am in the business, and you are not.
Nonetheless, you probably know better.
I'll ask Barry (the owner of Shadbolt) about your mystery 200 cam the next time I talk to him, likely tomorrow.
Actually ask Marcus. He is the one I was dealing with at the time. Barry is the one I am working with this time for my latest 4 cyl drag engine. And I too am not interested in seeing who can piss higher up the tree. All I ever intended was to offer some of my personal experience with the crowd out there. Oh, BTW did you ever double check those cam figures you posted (lobe vs lift)?
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Old 01-16-2008, 08:07 PM   #236
MacNutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdeiss
I, too, would like to have a better running bike, cold weather or otherwise, but I'm wondering what effect the typical airbox/rejet mods would have on my DR200's gas mileage. I'm tempted to do the Kientech mods except for the exhaust but am not sure I want to surrender much mileage for a modest improvement in performance. Does anyone have input on this?

Thanks in advance.
With all the mods I've done to my DR200se, I still get really good mileage. About 100 mpg on the street and about 60 - 70 mpg in the bush. You can find a list of my mods earlier in this thread.
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:34 PM   #237
Birdmove
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I ended up getting an XT225 rather than the DR200.My XT does run a bit lean, but I am getting such good gas mileage (80-90+ mpg US with a high of just over 100 and a low of 68) that I am not going to screw with the carb. I can live with it taking a little long to warm up on a cold morning to get that kind of gas mileage.
I did seriously consider the DR200 and like the bigger tank a lot.

jon in Puyallup
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:38 PM   #238
Klay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNutz
You shoud notice a nice benefit coming off the line by upping the pilot jet one size. Have you done your pilot needle screw mod?
Yes, I also did the pilot screw.

However, my seat-of-the pants impression is that it is boggier off the line but has more top end power. My impression may be affected by the fact that I can hear intake noise more with the hole in the airbox cover, so the sound may be fooling me.

I don't care, it's so much more driveable in cold weather that I'm very happy.
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:40 PM   #239
Klay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdeiss
I, too, would like to have a better running bike, cold weather or otherwise, but I'm wondering what effect the typical airbox/rejet mods would have on my DR200's gas mileage. I'm tempted to do the Kientech mods except for the exhaust but am not sure I want to surrender much mileage for a modest improvement in performance. Does anyone have input on this?

Thanks in advance.
I have yet to see how mileage is affected. I didn't do the muffler part of the mod.
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:00 PM   #240
MacNutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klay
Yes, I also did the pilot screw.

However, my seat-of-the pants impression is that it is boggier off the line but has more top end power. My impression may be affected by the fact that I can hear intake noise more with the hole in the airbox cover, so the sound may be fooling me.

I don't care, it's so much more driveable in cold weather that I'm very happy.
How big a hole did you put in the air cover? And, how many full turns out is the screw? You may still need to richen the bottom end.
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