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Old 04-08-2013, 01:39 PM   #15421
Teeeeeemu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonawesome View Post
Assuming you would have mentioned it by now, but if you've done any work on the top end you could have placed the cam incorrectly. That would cause low compression. Not sure if it could run or not..
Changed the cam chain somewhere before christmas. Im preettyyy sure its correct. I guess it wouldnt run this fine if the timing was wrong...
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:09 PM   #15422
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It's the rain drops! they are probably causing a torsion of the earths magnetic field which in turn will cause the polarity to reverse and hold the spacer to the shaft.

Yeah, not really sorry I can't offer anything constructive I'm just amazed at the detail of your labeling of the attached photo. "raindrops" lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPulldown View Post
Need help. Trying to change out some clutch thrust washers. I am almost down to the last part which is the lower thrust washer. However I can not seem to remove the primary driven gear spacer. The spacer which is sandwhiched between the two thrust washers



I have tried tapping on it and prying. Nothing. It seems to be stuck on the shaft. I can not get the jaws of a puller under the thrust washer either.
This write up says that the spacer will most likey be stuck, but it doesn not offer any solution.
http://www.maximum-suzuki.com/forums...2452#msg892452

Ideas. Next I will try heat, and if that doesn't work, I guess I will have to cut the thing off.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:19 PM   #15423
AustinJake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeeeeemu View Post
Changed the cam chain somewhere before christmas. Im preettyyy sure its correct. I guess it wouldnt run this fine if the timing was wrong...
Your cam timing can be off a tooth either way, and the bike can run great, but start harder and other symptoms, like backfiring
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:52 PM   #15424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFC_Ren View Post
It's the rain drops! they are probably causing a torsion of the earths magnetic field which in turn will cause the polarity to reverse and hold the spacer to the shaft.

Yeah, not really sorry I can't offer anything constructive I'm just amazed at the detail of your labeling of the attached photo. "raindrops" lol.
When I run into that at work I usually take a bearing separator and tighten it down on the sleeve until its got a good grip. Harbor Freight has one part# 3979 so you can see what type of device I'm talking about. Although the one I use at work is much smaller (harbor freight doesn't have a smaller one). Then I'd attach a puller to it and try to pull it gently with a wrench. I'd try applying heat with a propane torch if it won't budge but remember if it gets too hot you may warp or ruin the hardness of the part. I'd go to all this trouble in an attempt to reuse the part. If you end up resigned to ordering a new sleeve you can even cut grooves in it with a dremel to allow the bearing separator to get a good bite. Good luck! Also, I hope its an illusion but in your picture it looks like that sleeve doesn't HAVE a thrust washer behind it and the sleeve is down in the bearing. It looks different than Illustration #42 page 162 chapter 6.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:34 PM   #15425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeeeeemu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
Loose by a couple of thousandths is not a problem. Too tight could be source of low compression. I'd want to make sure both inlets and both exhaust valves are at exactly the same gap.

Your bike starts in cold weather with no choke but used to need choke in warm weather. That means it's too rich.

Assuming you haven't done any cleaning or adjustment on the carb, I'd suggest the float needle is leaking or the O-ring around the needle seat is rotted away (most likely solution IMO). If you've still got the vacuum petcock, that could be leaking too although it would typically flood the engine if left to sit.

If you have fiddled or adjusted, either your pilot jet is too big or pilot fuel screw too many turns out or youve managed to get the float height too high.
Its got an on/off petcock, not the stock shit. Pilot jet is 40, fuel screw is 2.25 out. (Main jet is 140 and I got cut airbox and a loud exhaust) Checked the jets and cleaned the carb last weekend. Maybe I'll turn the fuel screw in a bit. Oh and I havent done anything to the carb during the year ive owned this bike, last weekend was the first time.

Theres also some backfiring btw, does running rich cause that? I know lean does. Could be the missing header-cylinder seal too...

And wtf Rugged youre right. I got the numbers from here http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/712...earance-specs/
The PDF manual from Greg does say .008 - .013. What do you guys with 90-93 bikes set them to?
If you'd said that you just had the carb apart for cleaning and that you recently changed the cam chain it would have helped greatly. There's a very good maxim that applies here:
"Always suspect the last thing that you f***ed with before the problem started."
So did you dunk the carb in carb cleaner? Did you check/replpace the O-ring under the float valve seat when you had the carb apart? (IIRC, there's another one under the main jet too.) If you did, did you have to use pliers to pull the float valve seat? Are you absolutely certain you didn't bend/distort/crush anything?

If your valves have clearance more-or-less within spec that is not the source of your problem but if you want a recommended range to set them in, I'd suggest going at the loose end of the spec for the latest model year. The engines didn't change enough over the years to change the ideal spec, Suzuki just tweaked their recommendation.

Yes, cam timing could be off and it will still run - perehaps not rev out like it should. Yes, rich mix can cause popping on decel. Loose header gasket will definitely cause that.

Go systematically through trouble shooting steps but only one thing at a time. Suggest you check fuel level in carb first and check that O-ring if you didn't change it before.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:50 PM   #15426
MrPulldown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis789 View Post
When I run into that at work I usually take a bearing separator and tighten it down on the sleeve until its got a good grip. Harbor Freight has one part# 3979 so you can see what type of device I'm talking about. Although the one I use at work is much smaller (harbor freight doesn't have a smaller one). Then I'd attach a puller to it and try to pull it gently with a wrench. I'd try applying heat with a propane torch if it won't budge but remember if it gets too hot you may warp or ruin the hardness of the part. I'd go to all this trouble in an attempt to reuse the part. If you end up resigned to ordering a new sleeve you can even cut grooves in it with a dremel to allow the bearing separator to get a good bite. Good luck! Also, I hope its an illusion but in your picture it looks like that sleeve doesn't HAVE a thrust washer behind it and the sleeve is down in the bearing. It looks different than Illustration #42 page 162 chapter 6.
The reason the picture is labled so well is because it is not my picture. I stole it from the write up I linked.

If you read the FSM it acutally says that the spacer and the thrust washers should be changed out as a set. I only recall reading that the thrust washers should be changed out. This makes sense as the space created by the spacer between the thrust washers is the clearnace that allows the inner baset to spin. That is why there are the clearnace the back of the basket fixes or add thicker washers.

The loser thrust washer can be seen in the picture below the spacer. IT does not cover the entire bearing face. Mine is identical. and with the other thurst washer in hand it is apparent.

Maybe I can rig a clamp of sorts. Thanks for the idea.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:14 PM   #15427
travis789
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You are correct sir. I didn't read through the procedure thoroughly. I thought I'd share since I frequently have to get sleeves off of electrical motors at work and it looked like the same problem. i haven't had to do it to mine yet but I'm glad we have this sight because I'll have a better idea of what I'll need when the time comes.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:54 PM   #15428
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Clutch basket spacer

Hey Mr. Pulldown, Grasping at straws for ya here. Never tried this. Just because they're sitting in shop already anyway, I'd grab a plain old gear puller, and as many hose clamps as the puller had fingers. Put the clamps on the spacer real tight, and see what happens with the puller. Cheap, quick and simple. If it doesn't work, nothing lost really. THEN, I would go for the other, potentially damaging strategies. I'm kind of thinking it's just not really all that stuck on there. It just needs a gripper and some encouragement. FWIW, my clutch was VERY hard to get into neutral. Last month I replaced the washers, "clearanced" the basket some utterly random and likely inconsequentially small amount and filed all the notches and ridges off the basket fingers. It is freakin' butter now. Like new, whatever that was. Good luck.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:59 PM   #15429
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Might try a heat gun. Might not take much to break it loose.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:52 PM   #15430
Stretch67
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Concur. Put the Smoke Wrench to it to expand inside diameter of the spacer a few thousandths.

Mine slid right off cold, so it ought not take much.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:26 AM   #15431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFC_Ren View Post
Well not sure what could have caused this but it sure is trashed.
If anyone has a good right side engine case from a kickstart model DR350 or DR350S or see's one on their local craigslist. Or has a spare motor let me know please.


This is the transmission side of the right side engine case


This is outside the case behind the kickstart mechanism area



Behind where the clutch sits on the right side case



Inside the area where the kickstart assembly goes
Go to Kiientech site and look at DR 350 failure alerts.It may enlighten you as to what happened to your motor.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:07 AM   #15432
Teeeeeemu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
If you'd said that you just had the carb apart for cleaning and that you recently changed the cam chain it would have helped greatly. There's a very good maxim that applies here:
"Always suspect the last thing that you f***ed with before the problem started."
So did you dunk the carb in carb cleaner? Did you check/replpace the O-ring under the float valve seat when you had the carb apart? (IIRC, there's another one under the main jet too.) If you did, did you have to use pliers to pull the float valve seat? Are you absolutely certain you didn't bend/distort/crush anything?

If your valves have clearance more-or-less within spec that is not the source of your problem but if you want a recommended range to set them in, I'd suggest going at the loose end of the spec for the latest model year. The engines didn't change enough over the years to change the ideal spec, Suzuki just tweaked their recommendation.

Yes, cam timing could be off and it will still run - perehaps not rev out like it should. Yes, rich mix can cause popping on decel. Loose header gasket will definitely cause that.

Go systematically through trouble shooting steps but only one thing at a time. Suggest you check fuel level in carb first and check that O-ring if you didn't change it before.
Eh sorry for not telling everything. Theres a couple messages earlier about the carb cleaning. Cam chain should be correct so I didnt bring it up.

The bike worked exactly the same before I checked the carb. I didnt dunk the carb, I had some spray stuff and used plenty of it, half a can left now. Yes I was careful with the float, I punched the pin out with a screw driver. I didnt know (+didnt have the torx heads) how to take the carb more apart so I only cleaned the main and pilot jet and removed the float and the needle(?) that hangs with it. And sprayed everywhere.
So how do I check fuel level? The floats werent stuck by the way.

I'll check the timing at some point then, maybe its that. The bike revs like it should though. And there is NO header gasket. There hasnt been one since Ive owned the bike, I didnt think it was that important
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:25 AM   #15433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry Valley View Post
Go to Kiientech site and look at DR 350 failure alerts.It may enlighten you as to what happened to your motor.
Are you refering to the counter balance pin thing. Not sure this looks liek that kind of failure. I think that would be alot worse. Someone mentioned that this looks like a kickstart without using the decomp case failure.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:13 AM   #15434
MrPulldown
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Fuck that spacer POS.

Last night was one of those nights. Went into the garage to work on the DR trying to get the spacer and lower clutch thrust washer off. I was going to do some of the suggested tricks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bold2getold View Post
Might try a heat gun. Might not take much to break it loose.
First the propane torch. Nope. That did not work. Did not heat it up toooo much. But the spacer would not budge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWRambler View Post
Hey Mr. Pulldown, Grasping at straws for ya here. Never tried this. Just because they're sitting in shop already anyway, I'd grab a plain old gear puller, and as many hose clamps as the puller had fingers. Put the clamps on the spacer real tight, and see what happens with the puller. Cheap, quick and simple. If it doesn't work, nothing lost really. THEN, I would go for the other, potentially damaging strategies. I'm kind of thinking it's just not really all that stuck on there. It just needs a gripper and some encouragement.
Next try to hose clamps. Dig around in my bins for ever trying to locate a hose clamp small enough. After finding several I try one of the smallest. Still too big.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travis789 View Post
When I run into that at work I usually take a bearing separator and tighten it down on the sleeve until its got a good grip. Harbor Freight has one part# 3979 so you can see what type of device I'm talking about. Although the one I use at work is much smaller (harbor freight doesn't have a smaller one). Then I'd attach a puller to it and try to pull it gently with a wrench. I'd try applying heat with a propane torch if it won't budge but remember if it gets too hot you may warp or ruin the hardness of the part. I'd go to all this trouble in an attempt to reuse the part. If you end up resigned to ordering a new sleeve you can even cut grooves in it with a dremel to allow the bearing separator to get a good bite.
Ok time to try this approach. I do not havea bearing seperator, but if I can clamp two pieces of steel to the outside of the spacer, it might work. Dig around and find two pieces of metal with holes/slots already in them. Find two bolts and nuts that might work. Start to thread everything together, and I drop one of the nuts. Where did it go. Well if you look at my super detailed picture you will notice that there is a hole in the side case to goes down into the depth of the engine. My fucken luck. The nut fell into this hole.

A little background on this engine. It is not in my bike and is a spare. 92 350. I need to do this thrust washer job on my bike and wanted to practice on the spare enigne I had lying around. This motor is going to go into the bastard child DR250 that I jsut got running, so I wanted to make sure the thrust washer was good and the shift drum bolt was tight.

So I pick up the engine flip it upside down and start to shake it vigourously in an attempt to shake the nut back out of the hole. Mind you these things are not light and always filled with oil not matter how much you try to drain it.

I was super lucky and I find the nut has fallen back out. Enough with this. I try to put the pieces back together with the spacer and lower thrust washer still stuck in place. I did not get the cover on porperly, it does not seat all the way. And the kick starter is not working right either as it does not ratchet. Oh well fuck it, I am done with this heap.

Back to working on my bike as riding season is jsut around the corner. I wasted a rare free night of wrench time, and the only thing I accomplished was making a mess!!
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:04 PM   #15435
travis789
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Jesus, Mr Pulldown, I'm sorry that happened to you. i guess its true, some days you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you. I had some bad luck myself today. I rode my dr350s to work for the first time. And put my brand new $140 helmet on top of my locker. And at the end of the day I take it down and its got a brand new chip the size of a silver dollar on the back of it. Looks like a coworker thought he'd take a look at it, dropped it and then said, "F*ck him, he'll never know who did it." and put it back. People. Oh yeah, I was thinking maybe you could get that sleeve off by putting on the bearing separator, followed by a couple big washers and then a hose clamp. Then you could run 3/8" all-thread through the holes of the bearing separator and put 2 pieces of steel below the tips down by the case (to disburse the pressure) and tighten the all thread down to wiggle it off. You can lock 2 nuts together on the all thread with loctite to give you a way to turn it.
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