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Old 11-03-2013, 08:23 PM   #2251
Jeffy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Thank you. I was aware of the transmission changes, and seem to have narrowed it down to 1989 or newer. Seems like, based on the axle disconnect, 1991 might be the year to aim for.

Unless I find a CJ7 that I really want, lol.
The one's you want to look at are the 1994-1995.5's...

1991 is a bit of an oddball itself because it was the last Jeep to use the older CJ style roll-cage. The gauge cluster is also a little different in that there is a clock from the previous year instead of the 4WD indicator that all the others have. It's not really a big deal though. 1993's are also a little different. They have a different clutch slave then either 1987-1992 or 1994-1995.5. 1993 was also the beginning of seeing ABS parts being used. Specifically the rear differential even if ABS wasn't optioned. The differential side-gears were different then previous years. This can make installing something like a lunch-box locker a little more difficult. 1994 was when the front axle U-joints went from 5-260x to the larger 5-297x's. 1994 was also when the rear drivershaft went to a combo U-joint for the pinion yoke. They use a 1310 in earlier Jeeps. In 1994 they switched to a 1330/1310 combo joint. Although late 1995's, especially the 1995.5's which carried over into 1996 had some more changes. Dual-diaphragm brake booster, clear plastic master, TJ windshield pucks instead of the footman loops and the rear tailgate with larger TJ style hinges...

ie., The later models are better...

CJ's can be great but since you want to daily drive it and your budget, I think you'd be better off with a YJ or TJ. Though you nixed the TJ idea.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:01 PM   #2252
XpressCS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtallsally View Post
Again, pay attention to Jeffy.

So my input:

- Nothing more than a 1" body lift (I read once about the tubs cracking with more)

- Anything larger than stock tires with a YJ requires a re-gear (I don't care the motor) and with the D30 and D35 I think the shortest you can get are 4.88

- Any suspension lift over 1" needs a slip yoke eliminator

- I personally don't think anything over 33" on the D30 and D35 is advisable. I ran 33s for many years fully locked, but I was well known for not being a throttle jockey and only busted one rear shaft in 14 years (due to my own stupidity and not being geared correctly)

- I personally think the autoboxes in all YJs are junk. The 5 speeds seem pretty durable.

- The vacuum system for the actuation of the right front wheel in 4wd at this point is almost certainly wasted. There is a mechanical system I think you can still get to replace it.

- RE: motors. Personally I think the 4.2 is poop (as proven by the stats Jeffy put up). I also think the 2.5 is under rated- you won't win any speed races, but geared correctly it will climb walls. The 4.0 is the benchmark of reliability and plenty powerful.
-Correct, anything taller compromises the structural integrity of the body being mounted to the frame. I've seen accidents where the tub was separated from the frame.

-Negative. Most Jeeps do fine with 2-3" over stock 28" tires and with stock gearing. My 2.5L did just fine with 31's.

-YMMV, most can do 2.5" just fine.

-Anything over 31" on the D35. The D30 is a LOT more durable and stronger, due to it being a full float axle- YJ's also came with an HPD30 as stock, which is a stronger design. A lot of the locals around here roll 33-35" on the stock D30 just fine.

-The autotragics are terrible, 3 speeds is not enough to keep the RPM's reasonable. The manuals are just overall better.

-It's called a Posi-Lock and most build their own system, for fit a TJ passenger shaft, as it is a 1 piece shaft- eliminates the vacuum shift actuator.

-Regarding the engines, I would take a 4.2L all day, any day over the 2.5L. Highway RPM's are low enough to keep the engine well in its torque band. The Howell TBI upgrade bumps up the HP and torque specs quite a bit and makes the 4.2L infinitely more reliable. Plus the TBI upgrade is 50 state legal.

Also, not sure who mentioned it, but the NP231J isn't used in the Wrangler anymore, I believe they are the NV241 now.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:16 AM   #2253
longtallsally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XpressCS View Post
-Negative. Most Jeeps do fine with 2-3" over stock 28" tires and with stock gearing. My 2.5L did just fine with 31's.
Meh. I ran 31s with my .5 squirrels for over 5 years. It was fine, but definitely not as spritely as stock. All the magazines that did articles on the 4 banger YJ at the time (since the 4.0 was in such high demand) all put 4.56s in even for 31s. I went straight to 4.88s when I did 33s and it made it perform MUCH better than the 31s with 4.10s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XpressCS View Post
-YMMV, most can do 2.5" just fine.
I ran with no SYE for a couple years and again, with the spacers it was fine. But it is one of those things that is better to do no matter what. The slip yoke from the factory is just a crap trail use deal (thankfully the times I had to drive home in front wheel drive, I had the SYE) since all the fluid will drain out if the shaft is removed. It is also difficult to get the correct pinion angle with the slip yoke in there. IMO, even if I were leaving one stock, I'd put a SYE kit with a CV shaft in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XpressCS View Post
-Anything over 31" on the D35. The D30 is a LOT more durable and stronger, due to it being a full float axle- YJ's also came with an HPD30 as stock, which is a stronger design. A lot of the locals around here roll 33-35" on the stock D30 just fine.
I'm not going to argue with you on this, but a careful throttle foot (I personally lived on my hand throttle when crawling) and I got away with 33s for for multiple Rubicon and Moab runs (including driving there and back) with 33s on a D35. The key is to crawl- once you start to spin and run the risk of something stopping you, or getting you to hop, and you'll snap the shaft like a twig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XpressCS View Post
-It's called a Posi-Lock and most build their own system, for fit a TJ passenger shaft, as it is a 1 piece shaft- eliminates the vacuum shift actuator.
YEAH that was what I did! I actually did a "trail" fix once by simply running a bolt into the plate where the plenum is to push the fork over and engage the intermediate shaft.
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:22 PM   #2254
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Thumb My First Time Off-Road

First off, sorry if this is a long post. Just got my first Jeep (2000 TJ, all stock) and have had it for about 2 weeks. I recently decided that I want to start going off road, so I remove the bikini top and windows, pick up the GF and my buddy, and head out to the Azusa OHV area, here are the results :

As a side note, I was quite surprised by the variance in people's driving. There were some guys with fully off-road rigs going over obstacles at a snail's pace , while there were other guys who were going over bumps quicker than I could imagine. There were guys with fully lifted F-150's with 35" tires crawling over bumps slowly. I don't know, it was a bit weird. After driving there all day, I don't really see myself needing to lift the jeep anytime soon, as I don't think I'm gonna go much rougher than this.







PS: Sorry for the crappy music, I didn't choose it, she did i swear
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Old 11-04-2013, 03:36 PM   #2255
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Old 11-04-2013, 04:05 PM   #2256
XpressCS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtallsally View Post
I'm not going to argue with you on this, but a careful throttle foot (I personally lived on my hand throttle when crawling) and I got away with 33s for for multiple Rubicon and Moab runs (including driving there and back) with 33s on a D35. The key is to crawl- once you start to spin and run the risk of something stopping you, or getting you to hop, and you'll snap the shaft like a twig.
There's 2 types of D35 axles, the first is the original D35 design which features a retainer plate, the second design uses C clips to hold the axle shafts in.

My D35 decided it was done with life and committed suicide on me:



Retainer plate peeled open and out went the entire tire/wheel/shaft/drum assembly. That was coasting downhill at ~55mph, in neutral, with 235/70-15 tires (29"). The D35 is just a piss poor design.

Fwiw, my 89 2.5L TBI was able to motor along just fine with my 3.55 geared replacement D35C axle. Rolled like that for about 6 months before I attempted to change the gears out back to the stock 4.11. Couldn't use 5th gear except for long straights, but it cruised just fine up to about 75mph on the highway.
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Old 11-04-2013, 04:57 PM   #2257
longtallsally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XpressCS View Post
There's 2 types of D35 axles, the first is the original D35 design which features a retainer plate, the second design uses C clips to hold the axle shafts in.

My D35 decided it was done with life and committed suicide on me:



Retainer plate peeled open and out went the entire tire/wheel/shaft/drum assembly. That was coasting downhill at ~55mph, in neutral, with 235/70-15 tires (29"). The D35 is just a piss poor design.

Fwiw, my 89 2.5L TBI was able to motor along just fine with my 3.55 geared replacement D35C axle. Rolled like that for about 6 months before I attempted to change the gears out back to the stock 4.11. Couldn't use 5th gear except for long straights, but it cruised just fine up to about 75mph on the highway.
The only shaft I snapped was going up Walker Hill on the Rubicon and the wheel just plain came off (no retainer plate, just the C Clip). However, I managed after that experience (TOTAL driver error, and improper gearing) to do the Rubicon a number of times as well as a couple trips to Moab with never breaking another shaft- all with 33s and locked up.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:20 PM   #2258
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I sheared the key on my AMC 20 axle, does that count? I did not loose the wheel, and it would still drive down the road, just not above 30 so I just limped it the 2 miles home.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:34 PM   #2259
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I drove my YJ into my driveway on 3 wheels when the tow truck driver dumped it off

There is a video of such shenanigans that shows my ironic bumper sticker:

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Old 11-05-2013, 12:13 PM   #2260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtallsally View Post
Again, pay attention to Jeffy.

So my input:

- Nothing more than a 1" body lift (I read once about the tubs cracking with more)

- Anything larger than stock tires with a YJ requires a re-gear (I don't care the motor) and with the D30 and D35 I think the shortest you can get are 4.88

- Any suspension lift over 1" needs a slip yoke eliminator

- I personally don't think anything over 33" on the D30 and D35 is advisable. I ran 33s for many years fully locked, but I was well known for not being a throttle jockey and only busted one rear shaft in 14 years (due to my own stupidity and not being geared correctly)

- I personally think the autoboxes in all YJs are junk. The 5 speeds seem pretty durable.

- The vacuum system for the actuation of the right front wheel in 4wd at this point is almost certainly wasted. There is a mechanical system I think you can still get to replace it.

- RE: motors. Personally I think the 4.2 is poop (as proven by the stats Jeffy put up). I also think the 2.5 is under rated- you won't win any speed races, but geared correctly it will climb walls. The 4.0 is the benchmark of reliability and plenty powerful.
I disagree with the re-gear comment. Sure if you have a 4.0L with 3.07s and 31s it's going to be a dog; BUT it's still driveable and you could probably get away with it at sea level for years. MANY 4.0Ls came with lower gearing, I'm pretty you could even get 3.73 stock which is good enough to run 33s.

SYE not absolutely necessary with a 2.5" lift, as long as you have a transfer case drop. The SYE is ideal and I just installed the JB Conversions SYE on mine so that I could gain the lost clearance back for the center skid. Even with the 8.8 offset diff I never had the slip yoke pop off my TC at full flex on the trail.

I know guys that run 33s with the stock Dana 35 (in TJs), but the Dana 35 can grenade even with the stock tire size. Swapping in a Ford 8.8 can be done yourself for a couple hundred bucks, or pay a shop to do it. I spent a Grand (all parts and labor) for a front regear and an 8.8 with 4.10s at a local shop, 100% worth it.

The CAD (Center Axle Disconnect aka Vacuum System) can either be locked in place with a clip, use the posi-lok system or you can just pull the 2 piece axle out and swap in a straight axle shaft from a TJ (I've heard XJ works too but not 100% sure).

The 2.5L engine has nothing wrong with it; BUT if you live at altitude it is a serious dog if you put on bigger tires. It also doesn't really return any better fuel economy than a 4.0L. With TJs a 2.5 could be as much as $2K less than one with a 4.0L, in a YJ there doesn't seem to be much difference in price ($500 less max).

4.2s are not poo, they are just OLD SCHOOL, it's a very old AMC designed engine and is not efficient nor does it make much HP. They usually have a 1bbl carb with a mess of vacuum hoses. They are reliable and last a long time. I think my first Jeep had well over 200K on it with the stock 4.2. That said the 4.0L is way better as long as it's not a renix (which is only in XJs).
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:20 PM   #2261
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Thanks for that.

Now the AX-15 5 speed is reported as OK by most, but the 5 speed in teh CJ7's i've been reading about were light-duty, at most, from what I have read.

But this keeps coming back to the local one that the dealership wanted way too much for. I liked it

So... in driving it around it doesn't seem to need much, initially. I see the long blocks are cheap for the 4.2L's, so that doesn't seem to be a problem either.

Will a more modern YJ tranny, like the AX-15 manual 5 speed fit right in to it? Or would I need the newer style of tranfer case as well?

I still just really like the simplicity (and lack of pastic) on the dashboards of the CJ7's, so isnt' that what really matters?
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:43 PM   #2262
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Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Thanks for that.

Now the AX-15 5 speed is reported as OK by most, but the 5 speed in teh CJ7's i've been reading about were light-duty, at most, from what I have read.

But this keeps coming back to the local one that the dealership wanted way too much for. I liked it

So... in driving it around it doesn't seem to need much, initially. I see the long blocks are cheap for the 4.2L's, so that doesn't seem to be a problem either.

Will a more modern YJ tranny, like the AX-15 manual 5 speed fit right in to it? Or would I need the newer style of tranfer case as well?

I still just really like the simplicity (and lack of pastic) on the dashboards of the CJ7's, so isnt' that what really matters?
The later transmissions should bolt up fine. I had a 1998 4.0L with the original T-5 in my '85 CJ7 for a while until I blew the T-5 up. I think my mechanic used a clocking ring when he hooked the NV3550 up to my original Dana 300, but other than that it was pretty much a direct swap.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:47 PM   #2263
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Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Thanks for that.

Now the AX-15 5 speed is reported as OK by most, but the 5 speed in teh CJ7's i've been reading about were light-duty, at most, from what I have read.

But this keeps coming back to the local one that the dealership wanted way too much for. I liked it

So... in driving it around it doesn't seem to need much, initially. I see the long blocks are cheap for the 4.2L's, so that doesn't seem to be a problem either.

Will a more modern YJ tranny, like the AX-15 manual 5 speed fit right in to it? Or would I need the newer style of tranfer case as well?

I still just really like the simplicity (and lack of pastic) on the dashboards of the CJ7's, so isnt' that what really matters?
Whenever you hear someone say something is weak you have to really understand how it relates to other components. On a stock CJ, the T-5 is fine. If you're building it up and need something stronger, most people swap in a SM420, SM465 or a NP435 but you'll lose 5th gear. As long as your not swapping in a V8 it should be fine. (The AX-15 won't handle a V8 either.) I'm not sure if I'd bother swapping in a AX-15 either. They are okay for a medium-duty transmission but have some quirks. Cold temps can case them not to shift properly though you can help that by switching from GL3/4 to a synthetic like Redline MT-90. The other problem you'd run into are adapters. They aren't cheap if you have to go aftermarket. Expect to pat around $400-600 for each. (Engine to Transmission and Transmission to Transfer case.) Best to stay away from having to use adapters. Though a AX-15 bellhousing should bolt to a 4.2L fine and the D300 will bolt to a AX-15. I don't see it as an upgrade though.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:27 PM   #2264
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If you're building it up and need something stronger, most people swap in a SM420, SM465 or a NP435 but you'll lose 5th gear. As long as your not swapping in a V8 it should be fine. (The AX-15 won't handle a V8 either.)
Weren't those technically a 3 speed with low gear? Seeing as first is un sincro-ed and it is such a low gear.

That is the route I went when I put the small block in my CJ7, SM465, and I found a D300 transfer with an adapter to the SM465 on Craigslist for < $200.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:40 PM   #2265
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Originally Posted by Big Bird 928 View Post
Weren't those technically a 3 speed with low gear? Seeing as first is un sincro-ed and it is such a low gear.

That is the route I went when I put the small block in my CJ7, SM465, and I found a D300 transfer with an adapter to the SM465 on Craigslist for < $200.
Yup.

SM420: 7.00 - 3.60 - 1.70 - 1.00
SM465: 6.55 - 3.58 - 1.57 - 1.00
NP235: 6.68 - 3.34 - 1.66 - 1.00 *There's a 4.56:1 and a 4.90:1 versions as well.

Otherwise, for a 5-speed with the 4.2L, it's a T5WC, BA10/5, AX-15, NV3550 and the NV4500. The NV4500 is probably the best of both worlds but weighs in at 200lbs.
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