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Old 06-13-2007, 07:08 PM   #31
tmex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H.
Normal bike off battery current is about 5 - 7 mv If the bike still has the ZFE module staying up problem it will draw about 300 mv when off.


Oh, and suddenly I'm even more glad I bought GARMIN instead of Trimble. What an emissary that guy is! 93 post and an additude like that!
Current is expressed in ma not mv, which is the abbreviation for milliVolt. Nonetheless, I know what you mean. At 5-7 ma, three weeks of off time is about equivalent to leaving the headlamp on for half an hour. My attitude was fine until MrKnowItAll wanted to know who the hell I was to tell him the problem statement.

BTW1, I am glad you are happy with your Garmin. We evaluate all GPS receivers, and Garmin is one of the best. BTW2, Trimble does not make a receiver for general consumer use. You could not buy one if you wanted to.

This will be my last post on this site. I don't want to offend anyone or generate ill will toward Trimble by providing direct answers to direct questions.
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Old 06-13-2007, 07:12 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
My bike must be special then. I have never used a tender on any bike, including my 05 R1200GS, Jim
I have not had any trouble with my battery either. Never had to jump it or charge it. I didn’t start the bike at all last December, I wondered if I was going to have to jump it but no. Many times I have gone over 3 weeks without starting it.
It seems to me BMW recommends using a battery tender every 3 weeks if the bike is not in use. But I have not need too, which is good because I do not own one.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:05 PM   #33
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The current drain is a well known issue and is known as parasitic load. It seems that the 12 series has a bigger problem (ie a larger current draw and some 'variability' due to s/w version issues) than the older 1100/1150 series bikes. My 1150 pulls ≈25ma with the switch off. This seems like an insignificant amount of current draw on the battery, but when you do the math it will suck a battery down in just a few weeks. And that is based on a new battery at full charge. If the current drain is greater, the battery not at full charge, the ambient temperature is outside the 'recommended' range, etc. the battery will be drained even faster.

The Odyssey Battery Guide goes into this in much more detail. It should be available on the Odyssey site, if not I have a both the older and newer versions for those who want to find out more.

There is also the related topics of what happens to the battery when it is not kept at full charge (sulfation) and what type of charger is needed to effectively deal with bringing a battery back to full charge (or as near as possible) and/or to just maintain your battery (2 different requirements).

JJ
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:28 PM   #34
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The current drain isn't abnormal given the electrical loads from the computer etc, modern electronics are never off, BMW just undersized the battery. That said I guess I am lucky, as I have never had a problem with the battery. Using a charger is good idea, as it will help with battery sulfating. Also if you jump start the bike you should take it home and plug it in to the trickle charger. Using the alternator to charge a dead battery is not good for the battery. As for TMEX, everyone has an opinion, I have used Trimble products for a number of years, including the handheld Trimble made, All good products. and lastly WAAS doesn't get you 6-8 inch accuracy, wish it would

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Old 06-13-2007, 09:51 PM   #35
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This site is a source of amazing information and talent. Many people who post here have immense knowledge and backgrounds. It does little good to immediately assume that people don't know what they are talking about. In due course it will become all to appearant for all to see.

If any and all discourse is kept civil, it will allow ALL voices a chance to be heard. This also tends to keep the 'alienation' factor to a minimum.

It is my hope that we don't 'chase away' ANY talent or knowledge, it is far to valuable.

There is a social phenomonon that deals with the free flow of information. It is all to easy to assume that since information is freely given, it must be worth only that, nothing (for free). Nothing could be further from the truth. True, it may not be valuable to YOU at this moment, that doesn't mean it wasn't gleaned at considerable expense to someone.

Does this mean 'lively' discourse is to be discouraged?
NOT AT ALL.
This is awake up call to civility.
I liken the term, civilty, to how we would discuss these topics IF WE TALKING FACE TO FACE.

Would ANY of you actively insult a guest or someone whom you just met? I doubt it, and if that is your 'normal' inclination most likely you won't last long on this site. Especially after being unceremoniously dumped into JoMomma, which is what usually happens to those who don't play well with the rest of the inmates.

Gentlemen, and I use this word deliberately, are ANY OF YOU SO CERTAIN that you know more than enough such that you can toss away an opinion that differs from yours?

I'm sorry I even had to post this in the first place and that I didn't 'catch' this thread sooner. Perhaps we could have avoided the loss of a valuable resource.

For starters look up http://www.trimble.com/index.aspx and get a clue as to only ONE source of the knowledge base we have here.

Or should I say HAD here.

JJ
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• The farther you enter into the Truth the deeper your conviction for truth must be.
• There is understanding of the world precisely to the degree that there is understanding of the Self.

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Old 06-13-2007, 10:13 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen
This site is a source of amazing information and talent. Many people who post here have immense knowledge and backgrounds. It does little good to immediately assume that people don't know what they are talking about. In due course it will become all to appearant for all to see.

If any and all discourse is kept civil, it will allow ALL voices a chance to be heard. This also tends to keep the 'alienation' factor to a minimum.

It is my hope that we don't 'chase away' ANY talent or knowledge, it is far to valuable.

There is a social phenomonon that deals with the free flow of information. It is all to easy to assume that since information is freely given, it must be worth only that, nothing (for free). Nothing could be further from the truth. True, it may not be valuable to YOU at this moment, that doesn't mean it wasn't gleaned at considerable expense to someone.

Does this mean 'lively' discourse is to be discouraged?
NOT AT ALL.
This is awake up call to civility.
I liken the term, civilty, to how we would discuss these topics IF WE TALKING FACE TO FACE.

Would ANY of you actively insult a guest or someone whom you just met? I doubt it, and if that is your 'normal' inclination most likely you won't last long on this site. Especially after being unceremoniously dumped into JoMomma, which is what usually happens to those who don't play well with the rest of the inmates.

Gentlemen, and I use this word deliberately, are ANY OF YOU SO CERTAIN that you know more than enough such that you can toss away an opinion that differs from yours?

I'm sorry I even had to post this in the first place and that I didn't 'catch' this thread sooner. Perhaps we could have avoided the loss of a valuable resource.

For starters look up http://www.trimble.com/index.aspx and get a clue as to only ONE source of the knowledge base we have here.

Or should I say HAD here.

JJ
Sorry JJ, I know you do not like me, and I really don't care, but an attitude like his, even combined with "possible" valuable information, isn't worth the hassle and agrivation.

If Mr. Trimble can't keep it civil, and you might note that it was he who began the nastiness, then I don't see it as a loss if he decides to leave.

That said, I appologize for escallating it, as I should know better.

Jim
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:09 PM   #37
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I just had my GS12 battery tested by the dealer today. It was 100 %, and they have a very sophisticated testing machine.

Apparently what happens in my case is my accessories (55w driving lamps, GPS, etc) , coupled with the servos from the ABS, are draining the battery on shorter hops. The Service Mgr indicated that while the GS has a big alternator, when you run a lot of extras on the bike (and use the brakes a lot) it takes a lot of juice from the battery.

All my bad start issues have been after making short hops of under 5 or 6 miles, then shutting off the bike on errands, then making another short hop. My battery doesn't get fully charged sometimes.
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:42 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Sorry JJ, I know you do not like me, and I really don't care, but an attitude like his, even combined with "possible" valuable information, isn't worth the hassle and agrivation.

If Mr. Trimble can't keep it civil, and you might note that it was he who began the nastiness, then I don't see it as a loss if he decides to leave.

That said, I appologize for escallating it, as I should know better.

Jim
No offense, but I think you were being a little over sensitive.
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:59 AM   #39
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Think before you post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Sorry JJ, I know you do not like me, and I really don't care, but an attitude like his, even combined with "possible" valuable information, isn't worth the hassle and agrivation.

If Mr. Trimble can't keep it civil, and you might note that it was he who began the nastiness, then I don't see it as a loss if he decides to leave.

That said, I appologize for escallating it, as I should know better.

Jim
Herein lies the crux of the problem and it's not unique to this website. I recently started a thread on a GT website about headlight guards, and how after a 4000 mile trip a headlight guard saved my bacon as a result of a large stone hitting and potentially curtailing my trip. It was a simple reminder to others that headlights are vulnerable, cost is not prohibitive, and at least consider one. End of story.

NOW WE GET THE IDIOTS coming out of the woodwork about how they have never had a headlight damaged, they don't believe in extended warranties, and a bunch of comments that were not even germane to the discussion at hand. And I think that T-MEX/Trimble was attempting to keep it 'scientific' about parasitic 'drain', etc. and the anecdotal comments about how someone's bike never had a problem were little or no value to the discussion at hand. The thread went south quickly after that . . . both parties thought they were correct, tempers and egos flared, and we might have indeed lost a very valuable resource!
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Old 06-14-2007, 08:26 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoto
Two questions:

1. Am I the only one whose R12 battery goes flat for no reason?

2. Have you found the culprit?
One Question

Have you figured out WTF is wrong?

I need to know.
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:49 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudcat
One Question

Have you figured out WTF is wrong?

I need to know.
Not yet. Haven't had any time. Maybe tomorrow or over the weekend.

I do appreciate all the folks who have replied and measured the draw on their batteries. 30 years of licensed riding and this is the first battery draining problem I have ever had that wasn't charging system related.
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Old 06-15-2007, 04:15 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoto
Not yet. Haven't had any time. Maybe tomorrow or over the weekend.

I do appreciate all the folks who have replied and measured the draw on their batteries. 30 years of licensed riding and this is the first battery draining problem I have ever had that wasn't charging system related.
Yes and BMW warns us about this in our Owners Manual. But it has not affected either of us. You never had a problem with your stock battery until the end of its life, right?
I find it inconceivable that you buy a premium battery and all of a sudden the draw of the electrical system is a problem for you.
I know when my battery goes I am not getting anything special; whatever Cycle Gear, Kregans, Wal-Mart, or Sears sells.
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Old 06-15-2007, 09:47 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudcat
Yes and BMW warns us about this in our Owners Manual. But it has not affected either of us. You never had a problem with your stock battery until the end of its life, right?
I find it inconceivable that you buy a premium battery and all of a sudden the draw of the electrical system is a problem for you.
I know when my battery goes I am not getting anything special; whatever Cycle Gear, Kregans, Wal-Mart, or Sears sells.
Well... It wasn't really "all of a sudden". The original battery did go dead several times over the course of ownership, but one of the several software flash updates was supposed to have taken care of a known battery discharge problem. I had several conversations with the dealer about how long to expect the original battery to last, and what I got from those is that he didn't really know but he thought that 3 years wasn't terrible. So, I proceeded in the belief that perhaps the stock battery was a bit long in the tooth and was more susceptible to going flat, so I bought an Oddyssey with the thought that it was more robust and offered more cranking power, and would resist going flat better than a 3 year old stock battery. Turns out I was wrong. Now, I have always been very fussy about my batteries, particularly about how they are put into initial service because that tends to affect their service life, so I took great pains to read everything the maker sent about how to get started, and followed that to the letter.
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Old 06-15-2007, 10:26 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoto
I had several conversations with the dealer about how long to expect the original battery to last, and what I got from those is that he didn't really know but he thought that 3 years wasn't terrible. .
My understanding was, if you got 3 years out of it, it did good. The battery only had a 2 year warrantee.
My battery is approaching 3 years now and it has been completely trouble free. The mild climate here has, probably, contributed to that.
Anyway, I am interest in seeing what you find. I can not grasp how the draw of the electrical system affected your new premium battery, apparently, more then it did to your old one.
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:15 PM   #45
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FWIW - for those that may not be aware, Tmex is a Lifetime Team KTMTalk member with over 4500 posts on the orange side. Not taking sides here - I enjoy reading both Tmex and JVB.
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