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Old 06-23-2007, 07:47 AM   #1
mattawa88 OP
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Throttle Position Sensor???

My 04 950 has developed an intermittant backfire, usually at about 3800rpm, just as I begin to roll on the throttle in the apex of a corner.
It's not a miss but an actual backfire.
Upon testing the TPS, I find that the voltage is all screwed up. My voltmeter reads 4.4 volts at a throttle closed position and 1.1 volts at full open. The book says .6 volts at closed and 3.6 at full open.
Anybody else had troubles with the TPS?
I had a Yamaha WR400 that had a TPS go out, but it was a lot more evident than this.
Anyway, I ordered a new TPS, just wanted to compare notes.
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Old 06-23-2007, 12:28 PM   #2
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as soon as you got the EPC disconnected or removed you can and should remove the TPS as well. just disconnect it and toss it away. hell. i got 2 here you can pick up for free.
ONLY the EPC crap uses the tps sensor.
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Old 06-23-2007, 07:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenD
as soon as you got the EPC disconnected or removed you can and should remove the TPS as well. just disconnect it and toss it away. hell. i got 2 here you can pick up for free.
ONLY the EPC crap uses the tps sensor.
Are you sure about this Steven? I thought that it would influence the ignition map 3D timing instead of 2D timing, but perhaps it is not that advanced. This would be a good solution for the FCR not having a TPS
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenD
as soon as you got the EPC disconnected or removed you can and should remove the TPS as well. just disconnect it and toss it away. hell. i got 2 here you can pick up for free.
ONLY the EPC crap uses the tps sensor.
+1
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Old 06-24-2007, 05:03 PM   #5
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Thanks Steven, Ken. It does not matter how much you know about these bikes...... you never stop learning. This web site is a great resource

We should extent the Dark Ages up to the time before we had the Internet.

This has solved the biggest problem that I faced fitting FCR carbs.

Thanks again guys.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K2m
Thanks Steven, Ken. It does not matter how much you know about these bikes...... you never stop learning. This web site is a great resource

We should extent the Dark Ages up to the time before we had the Internet.

This has solved the biggest problem that I faced fitting FCR carbs.

Thanks again guys.

I've got my carbs out right now, and they will be going back in in about three days...so the timeing is perfect.

Mine is an 05.5 950.

Are you guys actually saying that I can remove the sensor and the wires altogether?

Please confirm.

Thanks.
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Old 06-24-2007, 09:21 PM   #7
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At low RPM's and heavy engine loads, the TPS will signal the ignition to retard the spark in order to reduce the chance of detonation...
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:50 AM   #8
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Yes: on a Husq for example.

NO: On the 950 the TPS is only used for the EPC system. (you know.. inject air to slide's in carb when sudden full trotle in 2'nd or 3'rd is activated ;) )

It is NOT used to retard the timing in any situation or anything.
so: EPC gone == remove the TPS to!
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Old 06-25-2007, 09:53 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by StevenD
It is NOT used to retard the timing in any situation or anything...
This is incorrect. It is used to retard to spark to prevent detonation, but is not needed once the smog equipment is removed. On heavily loaded bikes you may wish to leave it connected, even with the EPC removed, just as a safety measure.
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:57 PM   #10
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In that case my source is wrong (ktm factory tech) and the effect is so minor that dyno draw's cant show the diffrence.
How do you know of this?
Mine has been off for 15000km's now, no ill effects, well.. no effects at all :)
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Old 06-25-2007, 02:45 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by StevenD
How do you know of this?
I asked Sean McLaughlin last Friday afternoon at the Adventurer Rally in Mammoth. He's the head technician for KTM of North America.
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Old 06-26-2007, 09:59 AM   #12
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Do you have your TPS hoked up to your FCR's Ken?
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:11 AM   #13
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Do you have your TPS hooked up to your FCR's Ken?
Hey Rory...

No, I don't run the TPS. The SE is fairly light, and with proper jetting, won't suffer from any detonation issues.

BTW - here's the AP bleed jet mod you have yet to do. Sudco doesn't even know about this one...



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Old 06-28-2007, 01:13 AM   #14
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According to the manual

This is straight from the repair manual:


"If the throttle grip is opened all the way (Which the ECU recognizes via the TPS) at a certain speed (or a certain number of revolutions) in 2nd or 3rd gear, the ECU activates the ground control of the EPC valves.


Subsequently, the EPC valves will open an air connection to the carburetor diaphragm covers. A controlled amount of fresh air can be sucked into the space above the diaphragm, reducing the vacuum over the carburetor diaphragm.


This causes the carburetor slides to open more slowly resulting in a lower air-gap area to be sucked in through the engine. The engine performance and noise are significantly reduced.


NOTE: If the EPC valves are disconnected, this will not influence the other systems."

It says nothing about timing, and it says it's ok to get rid of it.

EDIT:
My repair manual is for a 2003 bike, and mine is a 2006. I don't think my bike has the epc, but it does have the tps. So what does it do???
What year of 950 adventure has the epc??
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmkev
This is straight from the repair manual:


"If the throttle grip is opened all the way (Which the ECU recognizes via the TPS) at a certain speed (or a certain number of revolutions) in 2nd or 3rd gear, the ECU activates the ground control of the EPC valves............................................ ................................................

epc??
You are missing the point........... Have a look at the adjustment procedure. This position sensor is some what over engineered for operating the EPC. A simple switch would have done. This sensor is there to retard ignition timing when the engine is under load. I have tuned a few car engines using programmable management systems and this is exactly what a TPS does.

Ken has a good point when he feels that he can live without a TPS by using high octane fuels and careful attention to jetting. At least he will have the option to use the low octane map. Octane is a fuels ability to resist detonation. A problem on high performance engines as one seeks to find the limit.

It is possible to fit the original KTM TPS to the FCR's as it is a standard Keihin part. It requires a different shaft and a different cable connector. About $200AU. The guy who is suppliying my FCR's feels that it will be cheaper to modify the original shaft.

Thanks for pointing this out Kev, but this was the first place I looked to analyse when the thread started.

Your edit says it all. Good more evidence for it use. Thanks Kev
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