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Old 07-21-2008, 07:33 PM   #871
Zombie_Stomp OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ere109
Awesome work. I think eventually you're going to need to realize that this is a 25 year old engine, and it's ok if it makes noises. Just ride it as is, and plan to rebuild it in another 20 years.
I plan on rebuilding my spare engine in my free time when I settle back down, just as I always have wanted, and once its fully rebuilt, I can swap it in with minimal downtime. I hate not being able to ride while I'm working on a bike, and i wouldn't want to own 2 or more bikes, i'm trying to be minimalist.

Yes, it's an incredibly tough engine and it deserves credit. I realized that although it's nice to have a perfectly built engine, the process starts all over again anyway, and it's not going to be the main bearings that go out on me on my way across the country. That said, I HATE oil leaks and they will not be tolerated! Before I blew that base gasket, I did start to notice the case gasket oozing a bit. It doesn't surprise me for the place I saw it leaking, because while splitting either of the engines, I discovered that the place it leaks is where the gasket material is most easily scraped off when cleaning the mating surfaces. It' the hump in the front where the balance shaft is located, in front of the crankshaft. I found out the source of the tinky rattling that ocurred with the engine hot, and it was something that was visible from the clutch side cover. It is the kickstart idler gear, which spins when the engine is running. The shaft was all burnt and galled, as was the bushing and gear itself. Here is a photo of the shaft end, this is the other end of the countershaft (shaft where the sprocket mounts outside the engine:

See how it's all dark and not bright like the rest of the metal? It was actually quite galled and scarred, nd I'm sorry my camera doesn't have a "macro" setting so you can see it better. The idler gear chewed up he backside of my clutch bell, explaining the aluminum shavings I was getting in my oil, note the star pattern in wore, and then the '85 XR clutch bsket's nice built-in steel washer plate:

This was the main problen I wanted to lay to rest, to make sure it was't something major. After having discovered the galled shaft end with just the clutch cover off, and finding out that it was the other end of the counter shaft, and what all it had caused, I reasoned that even thought it was just suspicion of a crankcase gasket leak, that splitting the case was the right thing to do since I had to do that to change the counter shaft and clear up this problem. It's definetly not normal wear, I wonder what caused it to heat up like that, none of the other shafts in the engine come close to that level of wear! Come to think of it, that's probably the reason I had a stripped kickstart symptom once in a while.


So today I got the other engine split, much more gracefully I might add, than the first. The proces involved the making of my patented gravity-splitter®. It works by using the weight of the gears in the gearbox (bottom half, or left side case) to pull againt the empty top half of the case (top, or right side case). This is the apparatus:

Here it is hanging:

The propane torch was suggested by a friend when I told him about what a bitch it was to separate the halves near the rusted-in positioning bushings at the motor mount points. I don't know how well it worked since my Gravity-Splitter® was in it's testing stages still, but I am pretty sure that it helped to break the gasket free because I ran the flame around the case seam until I saw oil ooze out all the way around it.
That and the help of the dead-blow hammer (hollow head with lead pellets inside) and I was on my way. You beat the case pretty soundly, especially near the four corners where there are inside the motor mount bolt holes, and anywhere you can apply a downward thump on the case.

I took it down when it got close to coming apart, I had the heavy furniture blanket down for protection in case of a fall. If you are worried about this, purchase the Gravity-Splitter® with the extra long chains so it is closer to your work surface. I pried it gently the rest of the way, being sure not to dent the gske mating surface(s).

The easily peeled gasket at the hump around the balance shaft and the brittle gasket material are not surprising considring the leaking I was seeing. Not too fast a leak, but these bstards are torqued together tight as hell, I had to use a screw exrtractor on one of them.
Brittle:


That's all for today, I have ot go earn a few dollars tomorow and maybe fit a little more parts cleaning and organization, some more disassembly and posssibly bearing presing if we're lucky!
__________________
1983 Toyota pickup: total overhaul, preservation-restoration in constant progress...
1987 Yamaha XT600 2KF (German)
STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.
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Old 07-21-2008, 08:01 PM   #872
DELTATANGO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Stomp
I plan on rebuilding my spare engine in my free time when I settle back down, just as I always have wanted, and once its fully rebuilt, I can swap it in with minimal downtime. I hate not being able to ride while I'm working on a bike, and i wouldn't want to own 2 or more bikes, i'm trying to be minimalist.

Yes, it's an incredibly tough engine and it deserves credit. I realized that although it's nice to have a perfectly built engine, the process starts all over again anyway, and it's not going to be the main bearings that go out on me on my way across the country. That said, I HATE oil leaks and they will not be tolerated! Before I blew that base gasket, I did start to notice the case gasket oozing a bit. It doesn't surprise me for the place I saw it leaking, because while splitting either of the engines, I discovered that the place it leaks is where the gasket material is most easily scraped off when cleaning the mating surfaces. It' the hump in the front where the balance shaft is located, in front of the crankshaft. I found out the source of the tinky rattling that ocurred with the engine hot, and it was something that was visible from the clutch side cover. It is the kickstart idler gear, which spins when the engine is running. The shaft was all burnt and galled, as was the bushing and gear itself. Here is a photo of the shaft end, this is the other end of the countershaft (shaft where the sprocket mounts outside the engine:

See how it's all dark and not bright like the rest of the metal? It was actually quite galled and scarred, nd I'm sorry my camera doesn't have a "macro" setting so you can see it better. The idler gear chewed up he backside of my clutch bell, explaining the aluminum shavings I was getting in my oil, note the star pattern in wore, and then the '85 XR clutch bsket's nice built-in steel washer plate:

This was the main problen I wanted to lay to rest, to make sure it was't something major. After having discovered the galled shaft end with just the clutch cover off, and finding out that it was the other end of the counter shaft, and what all it had caused, I reasoned that even thought it was just suspicion of a crankcase gasket leak, that splitting the case was the right thing to do since I had to do that to change the counter shaft and clear up this problem. It's definetly not normal wear, I wonder what caused it to heat up like that, none of the other shafts in the engine come close to that level of wear! Come to think of it, that's probably the reason I had a stripped kickstart symptom once in a while.


So today I got the other engine split, much more gracefully I might add, than the first. The proces involved the making of my patented gravity-splitter®. It works by using the weight of the gears in the gearbox (bottom half, or left side case) to pull againt the empty top half of the case (top, or right side case). This is the apparatus:

Here it is hanging:

The propane torch was suggested by a friend when I told him about what a bitch it was to separate the halves near the rusted-in positioning bushings at the motor mount points. I don't know how well it worked since my Gravity-Splitter® was in it's testing stages still, but I am pretty sure that it helped to break the gasket free because I ran the flame around the case seam until I saw oil ooze out all the way around it.
That and the help of the dead-blow hammer (hollow head with lead pellets inside) and I was on my way. You beat the case pretty soundly, especially near the four corners where there are inside the motor mount bolt holes, and anywhere you can apply a downward thump on the case.

I took it down when it got close to coming apart, I had the heavy furniture blanket down for protection in case of a fall. If you are worried about this, purchase the Gravity-Splitter® with the extra long chains so it is closer to your work surface. I pried it gently the rest of the way, being sure not to dent the gske mating surface(s).

The easily peeled gasket at the hump around the balance shaft and the brittle gasket material are not surprising considring the leaking I was seeing. Not too fast a leak, but these bstards are torqued together tight as hell, I had to use a screw exrtractor on one of them.
Brittle:


That's all for today, I have ot go earn a few dollars tomorow and maybe fit a little more parts cleaning and organization, some more disassembly and posssibly bearing presing if we're lucky!
Damn son! That looks like something I would do!

Impressive. You used the inertia of the flywheel to pull itself off the crank.
You got the son of a bitch off didn't you?

Excellent.
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Old 07-22-2008, 05:12 PM   #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeputyTom
Damn son! That looks like something I would do!

Impressive. You used the inertia of the flywheel to pull itself off the crank.
You got the son of a bitch off didn't you?

Excellent.
I guess you just caught up with me on that lat post here. Actually, I got the lame mechanic to pull them for me at the last minute as I was dragging my engines off by my lonesome. You were right, there is an internal thread to the flywheel, and all you really need is a bolt that size. I was confused by your use of Inertia, so I looked it up, and it's an object's tendency to stay in motion if it is in motion and to stay at rest if it is at rest. So really, I used mighty gravity itself to let the bottom case pull itself apart with all those iron gears in there.

Now to get it back together again with some parts swapped between the two...
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1983 Toyota pickup: total overhaul, preservation-restoration in constant progress...
1987 Yamaha XT600 2KF (German)
STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:20 PM   #874
DELTATANGO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Stomp
I guess you just caught up with me on that lat post here. Actually, I got the lame mechanic to pull them for me at the last minute as I was dragging my engines off by my lonesome. You were right, there is an internal thread to the flywheel, and all you really need is a bolt that size. I was confused by your use of Inertia, so I looked it up, and it's an object's tendency to stay in motion if it is in motion and to stay at rest if it is at rest. So really, I used mighty gravity itself to let the bottom case pull itself apart with all those iron gears in there.

Now to get it back together again with some parts swapped between the two...
Your doing good.

Take your time.
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:00 PM   #875
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I got it together with 2nd gear now not working as a result of swapping the countershaft over and/or cherrypicking for better gears. The countershaft was slightly different and I was having trouble making it fit nd finallly figured out the spacing. After a while, I forgot which parts were from which engine and it shifted fine by hand, so who'd have known it wolud lack 2nd when running by the engine's power anyway. I'll probaly score a set of complete gears from e-bay and put them in the spare case. I see someone got the set they were selling. Once I get settled I'm going to do a better build.
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1983 Toyota pickup: total overhaul, preservation-restoration in constant progress...
1987 Yamaha XT600 2KF (German)
STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:42 PM   #876
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I feel your pain. When I rebuilt my XL600, I installed the shifter return spring incorrectly. Had it all back together, took off down the street, shifter wouldn't return. Pull engine back out, disassemble, fix spring, buy another gasket kit, re-assemble and re-install engine. An expensive and frustrating lesson.
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JStory screwed with this post 07-27-2008 at 11:17 PM
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:12 PM   #877
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1983 Toyota pickup: total overhaul, preservation-restoration in constant progress...
1987 Yamaha XT600 2KF (German)
STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.

Zombie_Stomp screwed with this post 07-28-2008 at 03:35 PM
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:33 PM   #878
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Yeah, it's not so bad without 2nd if that were all I had to deal with. I honed the cylinder with a bar hone, all that was available, and didn't mic' it to check bore/taper/out-of-round. So now I have a bit of piston slap. So I'm not sure how long it will last that way.

I broke down last night at 2:30 am in the boonies. Not the best time of day to be out riding in the boonies with no tools. What can I say, I stayed up so late working on it that I took a 4 hour nap and woke up at 6pm.

So about the breakdown. It was and still is running fine. The only thing I noticed when I took off was that there was a tiny spot of gas on the screw that drains the carb bowls. A little early for the o-ring to be failing I thought, but still minor. Well, after about an hour of riding 25 miles from home, I noticed that the vent tube from the secondary carb was going almost full gush. I checked the freshly filled tanks and it was at about 3/4 full. Enough to make it back home, i figured. As I was riding I got an idea. I could kink the vent hose and I wouldn't lose any fuel. So I pulled off and did it. Right as I was tucking the kinked vent hose away, I heard ther engine puttering out. Thinknig it was what I had just done with the tube after it wouldn't restart, I unkinked it and tried a few more kicks. Then I waited about 5 min. to wait for it to unflood if that were the case. I was right next to a corrugated pipe manufacturer, and semis were pulling in, so I decided instead of kickig in vain for hours that I might try hitching a ride. The truckdriver said he could only take me as far as the truck stop, so I jumped in. I didn't see many people, and it was a truck stop that provides in-cap services and I saw all these tubes running to the trucks, and the lot was fenced off with barbed wire at the top, so I didn't figure it was a welcoming place to hitch a ride. So I started thumbing for a ride on I-40 (what else could I do?) and I didn't want to wake anyone up at this hour. I was hoping for a cop, and one pulled off with his lights flashing. I must have looked like an escaped convict with my Aerostitch on, even though it was blue, you see a guy in any kind of jumper thumbing a ride, and you're like "hell no". So he looked up my records and I was clean, and he said he could take me to Hillsborough. So there's this 20 mile country road that leads back to Carrboro where I live and I decided to start walking. My Mom wakes up around 5:30 so after what I measured today as 5 miles of walking, I called and she sent my Dad to get me.

I know all this has jack diddley to do with XL rebuilding, but it's all part of my story.

I don't know if this is the most reliable bike to be taking across the country with me, and I could just imagine something like this happening along a desert highway in Arizona or something. So I'm going to fix the apparent stuck float valve on the seconday, and see what I can do about opting for a newer bike for the trip. I mean, I love my XL, but I've gotta be hittting the road soon.
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1983 Toyota pickup: total overhaul, preservation-restoration in constant progress...
1987 Yamaha XT600 2KF (German)
STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:01 PM   #879
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At least you were around civilization.. I've been 20 miles from nowhere on my XL, if it had crapped out there I'd have had a long walk to the nearest road with any traffic. You've certainly learned a lot in the process but I'd be worried about taking your bike on a long trip without a bailout option of some sort.
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:29 PM   #880
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My sentiments exactly. I know a member on here who has a Suzuki Dr650 ('07 I think) who will sell it to me at a price that is reasonable, and affordable if I sell 2 out of 3 other vehicles. (scooter, truck, *gasp* XL600!)
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1983 Toyota pickup: total overhaul, preservation-restoration in constant progress...
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STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:41 AM   #881
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Originally Posted by Zombie_Stomp
My sentiments exactly. I know a member on here who has a Suzuki Dr650 ('07 I think) who will sell it to me at a price that is reasonable, and affordable if I sell 2 out of 3 other vehicles. (scooter, truck, *gasp* XL600!)

They pop up on Craigslist around here pretty regularly, you could sell yours and just get another one after you get to Oregon, no need to ship it that way.

Example
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:30 PM   #882
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Another option is a clean Yamaha XT225. If any bike is a junior XL600R its the XT225. Over 70 mpg and 6 speed transmission.

I darn near got burned out fixing my XL600 too. I got it right on the last try and i think its in New Hampshire as we speak.
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Old 07-29-2008, 04:43 PM   #883
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Originally Posted by Clayjars
Another option is a clean Yamaha XT225. If any bike is a junior XL600R its the XT225. Over 70 mpg and 6 speed transmission.

I darn near got burned out fixing my XL600 too. I got it right on the last try and i think its in New Hampshire as we speak.
Cross the whole country on a 225? I think I'd go insane.
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Old 07-29-2008, 06:56 PM   #884
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Another option I've been considering is throwing the XL in the back of my s-10, another money pit of mine. It's at 172,000 miles and still running strong, but I dropped it off at the transmision shop for warranty service on the rebuild I had done. It's the last week of the warranty, although it's a 18 month or 18,000 mile warranty and I'm only on about 9,000 of those miles. So it shouldn't be making noise like it is, and the one thing I'd been procrastinating about taking it back right away for is the fact that I can't manually shift into 1st. Using the shifter on the column, tht is, remember, this is an automatic. So if one of my beaters fails, I offlod the other and drive it. If I make it all the way, well then, lucky me!

And the fantasy I've been having is finding a really nice running XLR650 engine and just throwing that in there or something like that. All the reliability, about 2/3 of the suspension, 1-1/4 of the weight, with llittle more than half of the price of a new bike, and less hassle than trying to sell the old, with the bonus that i get to keep all my custom rack work.

Wow, this is really getting confusing toward what was to be the end of the launchpad!
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1983 Toyota pickup: total overhaul, preservation-restoration in constant progress...
1987 Yamaha XT600 2KF (German)
STOLEN: RED XL600 in Portland

I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:02 PM   #885
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Cross the whole country on a 225? I think I'd go insane.
I got one of the XT225's for my wife. It is an extremely capable bike and only gives up to the XL600 in hard uphill acceleration.
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