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Old 05-19-2008, 08:24 AM   #1681
tagesk
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
Anyone who buys an new BMW with a Canbus system is a complete idiot.
Canbus? I thought you were talking about BMW's implementation of the DOT requirement of an anti-theft system. Where does the Canbus come in?

As a side note: If you have a Canbus-equipped R1200GS, I would be very happy to keep it for you, to use and maintain it for you, for as long as you would like. Just ship it here - I'll take care of it.

[TaSK]
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:27 AM   #1682
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
There lies the rub with me. BMW BMW! is having trouble getting their hands and stubborn minds around the issue. I just visited BMW Welt last week, they can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a state of the art lifestyle/delivery facility, but they can not figure out why sometimes my bike will not recognize its own key.

This kind of bullshit is exactly why I will switch brands. I can put up with a lot of stuff, but not this type of stuff.

Did 247 fix the problem? Does BMW know, or are we the test subjects? I want a fucking godamn answer & I do not want want it to come from a group on the internet, I want it to come from BMW corporate. I want them to send me a letter telling me they have rectified the situation and that barring any very usnuaual circumstances I should never have a EWS situation again.

Anyone who buys an new BMW with a Canbus system is a complete idiot.
Seriously!

Look, I don't blame anyone for being upset, especially if you actually had an issue, but is that really necessary?

Jim
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:28 AM   #1683
tagesk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dometop
Possibly a little more reaction from the BMW diehards would help us no so die hard riders get chronics product issues resolved. Just a thought.
For all you know, this thread might have compelled BMW to come out with the 24/7 device, which might have fixed the problem for good.

Just a thought.

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Old 05-19-2008, 08:34 AM   #1684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
There lies the rub with me. BMW BMW! is having trouble getting their hands and stubborn minds around the issue. I just visited BMW Welt last week, they can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a state of the art lifestyle/delivery facility, but they can not figure out why sometimes my bike will not recognize its own key.
I invite you to come and watch one of my 2006 model HONDA HONDA Transalp which does not recognize any of its own keys.

The dealer doesn not even know why, so he made me two new keys. They turned out not to work either. Ans as the HONDA is so poorly engineered (as opposed to a BMW), the system can only tolerate four (as opposed to ten) new keys. Thus I am facing a 1.000 euro replacement of a large part of the bike. I would have given you the HONDA decal for an antenna ring to switch on that bike.

As you can't switch to HONDA, what will you do? Ural?

[TaSK]
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:36 AM   #1685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
This kind of bullshit is exactly why I will switch brands. I can put up with a lot of stuff, but not this type of stuff.

Did 247 fix the problem? Does BMW know, or are we the test subjects? I want a fucking godamn answer & I do not want want it to come from a group on the internet, I want it to come from BMW corporate. I want them to send me a letter telling me they have rectified the situation and that barring any very usnuaual circumstances I should never have a EWS situation again.

Anyone who buys an new BMW with a Canbus system is a complete idiot.
So how do you really feel??


Seriously, you seem way too worked up over this. Yes, it can be a big inconvenience if it happens to you. IF it happens to you.

I have a sneaking suspicion that BMW doesn't know what's causing the failures and that's why they haven't told us. I suppose they could send out a letter saying "Some rings are failing and we don't know why but we'll get back to you when we figure it out." But why would they do that?

I do agree that once they figure out the problem, BMW should issue a recall and replace all the rings that could fail with ones that won't. (Keeping in mind that 100% reliability is impossible.)

My thoughts. I just chose not to get all worked up about it. I've got way bigger issues in life. Starting with why my Boddington's tasted different last night. Did they change the recipe??
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:39 AM   #1686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk
Canbus? I thought you were talking about BMW's implementation of the DOT requirement of an anti-theft system. Where does the Canbus come in?

As a side note: If you have a Canbus-equipped R1200GS, I would be very happy to keep it for you, to use and maintain it for you, for as long as you would like. Just ship it here - I'll take care of it.

[TaSK]
Canbus equiped bikes are the only ones with the EWS problem. My new XCH has no such system. The XCH is the most reliable thing in my garage right now. It is also the most un-BMW like motorcycle & happend to be made by another manufacturer. Go figure!

I'm sure more and more things will have additional mandated security, but I bet that is not a problem in the US at this time. I do not know the US regs, but I assume this system is added to appease a European regulation.

They have one hell of a security system. Not only will it stop a thief from taking it, this new system keeps the owner from taking it as well. It is sort of a BMW mandated exercise program (hell, that's a new selling point) "Buy this bike, take up walking"

The funny thing is that there is harly any stolen BMWs in the US.

There is more of a chance of your BMW getten stolen, when you have to abandon it in the middle of nowhere, because you get an EWS and BMW Roadside can not help you. All it takes at that point is a couple of backwoods, lowlife, meth heads and a pickup truck and your bikes is gone.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:39 AM   #1687
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hankgs
This thread should only be used by those of us who have ACTUALLY had a system FAILURE...I really don't give a flying F#$* about BMW Kool-Aid drinkers "thoughts and ideas" about why or how this could happen to a BMW product... or that it is our responsibility as BMW Owners to carry around a spare antenna ring and torqs driver!
So, if we have not had an antenna ring issue, and post, we are doing what?

I didn't realize this thread was purely for bitching. I thought it was the help find a solution.

Just because one has not had an issue with my EWS does not mean one may not have useful input.

Jim

PS I also fail to see the usefulness of bashing other riders, or BMW in general. Personally I think stating the problem, circumstances behind the problem, and looking for a solution is much more productive, but that's just me.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:44 AM   #1688
GB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
Anyone who buys an new BMW with a Canbus system is a complete idiot.
If you understood anything about canbus and how it makes the bike more reliable not less so, you wouldn't be saying this.. the old daisy chains of relays, switches and fuses where one part fails, the whole chain fails isn't exactly great when it comes to diagnosing what part has failed. Read this and learn: http://www.bmwra.org/otl/canbus/

EWS failures are not the fault of the "canbus". Some Japanese bikes have already adopted the simpler canbus wiring system and more and more bikes will be so equipped.

Making blanket statements such as yours above is uncalled for.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:53 AM   #1689
tagesk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
I'm sure more and more things will have additional mandated security, but I bet that is not a problem in the US at this time. I do not know the US regs, but I assume this system is added to appease a European regulation.
Why do you assume that?

I seem to recall Poolside quoting the requirements from DOT. DOT as in US Department of Transportation, in the USA, not in Europe.

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Old 05-19-2008, 08:54 AM   #1690
DaveT
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Clouded vision, misplaced frustration and skewed reasoning were already mentioned in post 1294. Seems time to mention them again.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:58 AM   #1691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Seriously!

Look, I don't blame anyone for being upset, especially if you actually had an issue, but is that really necessary?

Jim

Sorry, yes

Who, in there right mind, would go out and purchase a new vehicle, that has a known flaw, that might or might not strand you without warning?

I could be more forgiving if it were a wear item that needs to be replaced after 10K miles or it happens in dusty or very wet conditions.

I would be less upset if it gave you a warning, or if it broke due to something I did wrong, due to the age of the component, or due to the conditions it was used in.

Would you go & buy a new car that may or may not start after a trip to the grocery store, daycare, work? Why is this any different, because it's a toy?

If this were a problem on a new 3 series how fast do you think this problem would be solved?

BMW riders stick their heads in the sand and defend their choice of machine until the end. They know how stupid they are to pick such a weird & expensive machine and then complain about what a POS it is.

I have bought 4 new BMWs in the last 4 years. I have owned 9 and have 6 in the garage right now. I HAVE A BM FUCKING W TATTOO. You know what? They need customers like me. They might not need me, but they need a group like me.


I'll stand by my statemnt. If you are considering purchasing a new BMW with this system I would hold off on my purchase until I was certain the problem is fixed. Do not think "it will not happen to me" or BMW Roadside will rescue me. You will be very wrong & pissed at yourself for thinking that.
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:08 AM   #1692
SCQTT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
If you understood anything about canbus and how it makes the bike more reliable not less so, you wouldn't be saying this.. the old daisy chains of relays, switches and fuses where one part fails, the whole chain fails isn't exactly great when it comes to diagnosing what part has failed. Read this and learn: http://www.bmwra.org/otl/canbus/

EWS failures are not the fault of the "canbus". Some Japanese bikes have already adopted the simpler canbus wiring system and more and more bikes will be so equipped.

Making blanket statements such as yours above is uncalled for.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with the canbus system other than the bikes that have it also have the antenna ring and the potential EWS problem. My new XCH does not have canbus or the EWS system.
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:11 AM   #1693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
Who, in there right mind, would go out and purchase a new vehicle, that has a known flaw, that might or might not strand you without warning?

I'll stand by my statemnt. If you are considering purchasing a new BMW with this system I would hold off on my purchase until I was certain the problem is fixed. Do not think "it will not happen to me" or BMW Roadside will rescue me. You will be very wrong & pissed at yourself for thinking that.
No offense, but ANY vehicle could strand you without warning. That argument doesn't work for me.

I also don't think, "it won't happen to me." I picked up a spare ring, and then updated it to the 247, just in case. If we ever learn conclusively that BMW has figured out the problem and the 247 fixes it, I'll take it in to the dealer and they'll put a 247 on. Done.
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:23 AM   #1694
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I wonder how an antenna fails. Is the ring antenna comparable to a run of the mill radio antenna? What kind of signal is it and at what frequency is being transmitted between the key and the antenna? The antenna itself is not doing any processing or translating of the signal, merely picking it up a for the receiver and software to do those bits.

Going back to the radio analogy, I can understand a failure of the signal from the key to the software (by way of the antenna) caused by interference from some other electical or electromagnetic source. This would not be the antenna's fault, would it? The antenna in this case would be picking up the the key's signal as well as the interference and the receiver/software would sense something amiss due to the interference and hence invoke the EWS.

If there were enough interference from another source to make the brain trip the EWS, it is really more of a factor of the receiver and software than the antenna but here we are buying spare antennas and replacing antennas to fix the problem.

Can someone more technical than me (not hard to find) explain how the ring antenna is different than the metal rod sticking out of the quarterpanel of my truck and how it can fail in any other way than a physical break and disconnection from the receiver?

This does not add up to me. What am I missing?

Thanks in advance,
Bret
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:23 AM   #1695
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
Sorry, yes

Who, in there right mind, would go out and purchase a new vehicle, that has a known flaw, that might or might not strand you without warning?

I could be more forgiving if it were a wear item that needs to be replaced after 10K miles or it happens in dusty or very wet conditions.

I would be less upset if it gave you a warning, or if it broke due to something I did wrong, due to the age of the component, or due to the conditions it was used in.

Would you go & buy a new car that may or may not start after a trip to the grocery store, daycare, work? Why is this any different, because it's a toy?

If this were a problem on a new 3 series how fast do you think this problem would be solved?

BMW riders stick their heads in the sand and defend their choice of machine until the end. They know how stupid they are to pick such a weird & expensive machine and then complain about what a POS it is.

I have bought 4 new BMWs in the last 4 years. I have owned 9 and have 6 in the garage right now. I HAVE A BM FUCKING W TATTOO. You know what? They need customers like me. They might not need me, but they need a group like me.


I'll stand by my statemnt. If you are considering purchasing a new BMW with this system I would hold off on my purchase until I was certain the problem is fixed. Do not think "it will not happen to me" or BMW Roadside will rescue me. You will be very wrong & pissed at yourself for thinking that.
Again, I ask, is it really necessary to call a whole group of people idiots because of their choice of bikes?

No, I have not had EWS issues, yes I have had the trans seals replaced, and the right FD seal replaced.

YES, I would go out tomorrow and putchase a 2008 replacement BMW R1200 if my bike were destroyed.

If that makes me an idiot, sign me up!

Jim
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