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Old 05-19-2008, 03:18 PM   #1711
tagesk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo100
My '07 GS with less than 1000 miles on it and I am the type of person who likes to learn all the technical details and background of the issue.
One thousand miles? You don't ride enough either!

OK - I've said more than enough on this now. I promise I won't post again in this thread before I have ridden at least a thousand miles.

[TaSK]
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:26 PM   #1712
NBeener
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TaSK,

I can't argue with you ... one way or the other ... because I know nothing.

WE know nothing.

I'm simply not naive enough to overlook the fact that their motivations and priorities may not be identical to ours.

But ... I stick by my former conclusion: We don't know where they are in that process yet, and are almost certain NOT to find out.

And my recommendation: everybody who's willing should send a respectful e-mail, etc., etc., etc.
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:27 PM   #1713
NBeener
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk
OK - I've said more than enough on this now. I promise I won't post again in this thread before I have ridden at least a thousand miles.
I'll miss you.

Your posts often make me hungry ... and thirsty
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:28 PM   #1714
slo100
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That's a whole 'nother story, my friend, and it has nothing to do with EWS!!!

I did just get it in Feb. of this year so I'm only a few months in. Still, not nearly as many miles as I'd like.



Many thanks for your continued assistance! I'll go back and look for more detail.

Ciao,
Bret




Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk
One thousand miles? You don't ride enough either!

OK - I've said more than enough on this now. I promise I won't post again in this thread before I have ridden at least a thousand miles.

[TaSK]
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:14 PM   #1715
dometop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
I'd like to ask caution in phrasing this.

I don't recall seeing anybody theorizing that BMW did this intentionally TO get an extra 50 euro out of anybody, BUT ... having been senior management in NYSE-traded companies in the past, I'm /well/ aware that some things just aren't A True Problem if the company is making, not losing, money from it.

Here's the math:

Costs:
  • actual (not threatened) loss in sales from the problem (difficult to quantify)
  • cost to actually fix the problem, including opportunity cost of having engineering resources focused on this issue, rather than other issues
  • Warranty/Roadside service claims for the relatively few that have the failure
Benefit:
  • Gross margin $$ generated from sales of spare ring (or multiple rings) to a number of customers that is likely MANY times greater than those who experienced the failure in the first place
As I say ... cynical, but not necessarily wrong. If/when the cost/benefit ratio turns upside down on them, they may view it differently.

We don't know where they are in that process yet, and are almost certain NOT to find out.

I believe the reduction in price for the problem part may indicate "where they are in the process"
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:22 PM   #1716
hart
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EWS Spartanburg

The weekend we took the course at BMW in Spartanburg two of the eight 2008 gs's got the failure.
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:43 PM   #1717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dometop
I believe the reduction in price for the problem part may indicate "where they are in the process"
This isn't the first time BMW Moto has created widespread parts sales with a well thought out design deficiency. Out of warranty parts and service is the company's bread and butter.

Their error with this lastest example is they undershot the part failure threshold.

It is a well designed cash cow sales program. With plenty of willing buyers who see making a purchase as easier than confronting the source.

Plus there's some cost-benefit risk involved, which adds to the badass adventure experience. Roadside repair fireside stories and all that.

An expert stroke is to lower the retail price of the accessory into the sweet spot of the price vs. sales curve. You are just numbers in an equation.


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Old 05-19-2008, 04:44 PM   #1718
GB
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How come we keep hearing about EWS failures on mostly 07 and now 08 bikes and I have hardly read any such reports in this thread on 05's??
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:45 PM   #1719
kindofblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk
The antenna is embedded inside the plastic housing. One credible suggestion was that the wire that make up the antenna is too thin. Embedded inside the plastic, exposed to heat and vibration, it might break. And when the antenna is dead, the bike is dead int he water.

Remember the antenna is a coil, and if each and every winding is embedded in the plastic, and the plastic expands due to heat, it might be suficcient to pull the wire apart. Maybe, and again this is credible, BMW issues a new part number with thicker wire (the 136, I dont' remember). Now they've made it even thicker (the 24/7).
Be aware: These are speculations, but at least does not contradict neither common sense nor the observed failures.

Around post 1150 (nice number, by the way) in this thread you will find my summary of the first 1.000 posts in this thread. I found 45 failures reported, many from non-returning users.

There are, as far as I know, no common denominator other than low mileage. Feel free to read the previous 1.500 posts to find the 46 failures and verify that I didn't overlook anything.

[TaSK]
Hi Tage,
Thanks for your efforts in providing some perspective on this. I'm considering buying a 1200GS or GSA and am researching issues like the final drive (seems to be resolved by changing fd fluid) and this ews.

On this topic does would you prego summarize what the 247 fix is? Do you know if BMW's incorporated it into their new 08 bikes? Again, gracie.
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:11 PM   #1720
NBeener
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside


This isn't the first time BMW Moto has created widespread parts sales with a well thought out design deficiency. Out of warranty parts and service is the company's bread and butter.

Their error with this lastest example is they undershot the part failure threshold.

It is a well designed cash cow sales program. With plenty of willing buyers who see making a purchase as easier than confronting the source.

Plus there's some cost-benefit risk involved, which adds to the badass adventure experience. Roadside repair fireside stories and all that.

An expert stroke is to lower the retail price of the accessory into the sweet spot of the price vs. sales curve. You are just numbers in an equation.

Why, you cynical bastahd, you.

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Old 05-19-2008, 06:14 PM   #1721
Wallowa
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Ah.....NO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kindofblue
Hi Tage,
Thanks for your efforts in providing some perspective on this. I'm considering buying a 1200GS or GSA and am researching issues like the final drive (seems to be resolved by changing fd fluid) and this ews.

On this topic does would you prego summarize what the 247 fix is? Do you know if BMW's incorporated it into their new 08 bikes? Again, gracie.
The change of FD fluid did not stop FD failures...just common sense and more BMW slight of hand; on my bike the FD lube was initally advertised as "permanent, never needs to be changed" ...well that bit of stupidity only lasted a short time...but unfortunately the BMW dealers were as long as one year after BMW reconsidered and said "change FD fluid at 600 miles" still not changing out the FD fluid..why? Because according to them BMW had never got the word to them...fast forward to the EWS failures..

#1 Is there a recall on the antenna by BMW? Seems to be in Australia or the BMW dealer there is lying. No word to consumer. No word from US BMW dealers. Who the hell knows the truth.

#2 Valid question: Is antenna #....247 the solution to the EWS failures? No word on this from dealers or BMW.

I am not so jaded that I think the supposed failure of antenna was a pre-planned event to sell antenna...nor do we really know IF the antenna is the cause of the EWS failures. We ASSUME [and hope] that this latest version of antenna eliminates EWS failures, but who knows? Curtain of silence.

I got to laughing this morning when I thought about a previous question I posed that was never answered: Why is version #247 so much cheaper that pervious versions? What made me laugh was the possiblity that since BMW is cranking out so many antenna the increase in production volume has brought down the unit cost! Sure ain't the defaltion of the EURO!
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Old 05-19-2008, 06:34 PM   #1722
Hi-zoot
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I'm posting my experience for anyone wanting some specifics.
My '08 GS is almost one month old. The EWS failed the first day with 285 miles on the odo . I'm guessing the bike had less than 10 starts on it.I was taking a trip to the Texas Hill country and it failed in San Saba Texas, 104 miles from the nearest BMW dealer in Austin. The tow truck cost 3/mile...or $312.00. I am including this info due to speculation that BMW wants to sell antenna's....the're gonna need to sell alot to make up for warranty costs IMO.
Since my bike was purchased that day, I wasnt in the Motorrad system yet and had to pay out of pocket for the tow. Lonestar BMW offered to cut me a check that day rather than waiting for a refund from motorrad.I need to say my experience with Shreveport Motorsports BMW (seller)and Lonestar BMW (warranty work) was top notch!. I was amazed at the level of service and concern from both dealerships...this renewed my confidence in choosing a BMW. And I'm really hoping this will be my only EWS failure. ....and I will be lurking to see if any of the new antenna fails. If so, I'll be adding a spare to my toolkit
On my warranty invoice, the antenna ring part number ends in 247. Hope this helps in some way.
Randy
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:06 PM   #1723
carternick79
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Mine failed last month while I was about 10 miles into a fire service road at dusk.. I disconnected the battery a couple times to reset the computer and finally got it started about the time I started to hear banjo music. for the 2nd time... The first time was 4 miles up the road at a lake but for some retarded reason I turned the damn bike off again and that when it really went south.

My 07 12GSA had around 3500 miles on her. It had happened to me a week earlier but I turned the key off and tried it again and it fired right up so I didn't think about it again until the next week when it finally crapped out on me. I took it to Bobby at BMW of Atlanta and he met me on a Saturday night around 9pm to ty and fix it so I could go ride the next day. Well needless to say that didn't happen cause the bolts that hold it in were a BITCH to get out so I ended up having to wait until that next Tuesday cause after 3 hours of trying we just couldn't get them out and by midnight we were both so pissed off and tired we just called it a night. Anyways, Bobby was telling (don't quote me on this) that there wasn't enough antennas out there that were bad to issue a TSB to replace them so BMW was just waiting till one crapped out then they would replace it. Anyways The guys got it done and I can't thank Bobby at BMW motorcycles of Atlanta enough for coming in on short notice after hours to try and get me fixed up. even if my bike kicked both our asses....
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:37 PM   #1724
YetiGS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
#2 Valid question: Is antenna #....247 the solution to the EWS failures? No word on this from dealers or BMW.
No offense but this isn't correct. There's another post on this thread where a dealer reported that the 247 is supposed to be the final fix. My dealer told me this as well. So that's at least two dealers who have been told by BMW that the 247 fixes the problem for good.

That's why I have the 247 under the seat of my bike.
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:04 PM   #1725
Wallowa
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No Offense Taken...But Based On What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS
No offense but this isn't correct. There's another post on this thread where a dealer reported that the 247 is supposed to be the final fix. My dealer told me this as well. So that's at least two dealers who have been told by BMW that the 247 fixes the problem for good.

That's why I have the 247 under the seat of my bike.
Come on dealers are selling the newest version of the antenna #247...on what information are they basing their statement that #247 fixes the EWS problem? Think about it. They either have informtion from BMW stating that #247 is THE solution and they are not divulging that...very unlikely.

Or...they are saying it is THE solution because it IS the latest version of the antenna. What would they say: "Here is #247 hope it works better than the last antenna we received"?

So my challenge to the BMW dealers lurking out there...Is #247 the ulitmate solution to the EWS failures? If yes, what is that proclamation based on?

Yeti...I want in the worst way for #247 antenna to be the resolution to this BS EWS issue..today I rode 145 miles of solo dirt, 45 miles from anyone and at the snow line; my assumption of risk, but this crap of "no comment/no informtion" from BMW does not allow me to tuck a #247 in my kit and imagine I will not get stranded...Trust with verification and there is no verification.
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