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Old 06-03-2008, 04:07 PM   #1966
Poolside
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When BMW or Siemens discloses the EWS manual override, that is built into the ECU/EWS when it left the factory, we'll have you to thank then.


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Old 06-03-2008, 04:10 PM   #1967
Wallowa
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Yah Poolside...Lets Hear It...Murky Water? Thirsty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
You gotta love the stories that folks come up with on the internet.... that's the solution I've proposed a few hundred posts back.. a VIN matched bypass code, but there is no such thing as of yet, or even talk of such a bypass.

Go on.. tell us all about it

GB...as much as I love the off the wall stuff from PS..you don't really expect a cogent answer do you?

And not to be argumentative..but how is a key chip considered a computer? And the key/antenna "returning a different value everytime" is contradicted by the assigned codes given to each VIN by BMW...you can only use one and that one is the code assigned to the current VIN/key/ecu/antenna combo.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:10 PM   #1968
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Here is some information based on BMW cars (which I assume are similar to that in our bikes):

The EWS system consists of a key with a transponder, a loop antenna
(coil) around the steering lock cylinder, an EWS control unit and an
engine control unit (DME/DDE) with encoded start release input.
BMW stated that integrated in the key is a transponder chip that
consists of a transponder, a small antenna coil, and a memory which can
be written to and read from. The memory contains its own unique key and
customer service data. The transponder is a special transmitter/
receiver that communicates with the EWS control through the transceiver
module.
BMW states that the EWS control unit provides the interface to the
loop antenna (coil), engine control unit and starter. The primary tasks
of the EWS control unit will consist of querying key data from the
transponder and providing the coded release of the engine management
for a valid key. BMW also states that the engine control unit with
coded start release input has been designed in such a manner that the
ignition and the fuel supply are only released when a correct release
signal has been sent by the EWS control unit. The EWS control unit
inspects the key data for correctness and allows the ignition to
operate and fuel supply to be released when a correct signal has been
received.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:13 PM   #1969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSG2G
Based upon what I have read, there's as much (if not greater) likelihood of an EWS failure than there is a flat tire.
Yeah, and we all better carry spare FDs with us too.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:15 PM   #1970
Wallowa
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Interesting..Why Fuel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slo100
Here is some information based on BMW cars (which I assume are similar to that in our bikes):

The EWS system consists of a key with a transponder, a loop antenna
(coil) around the steering lock cylinder, an EWS control unit and an
engine control unit (DME/DDE) with encoded start release input.
BMW stated that integrated in the key is a transponder chip that
consists of a transponder, a small antenna coil, and a memory which can
be written to and read from. The memory contains its own unique key and
customer service data. The transponder is a special transmitter/
receiver that communicates with the EWS control through the transceiver
module.
BMW states that the EWS control unit provides the interface to the
loop antenna (coil), engine control unit and starter. The primary tasks
of the EWS control unit will consist of querying key data from the
transponder and providing the coded release of the engine management
for a valid key. BMW also states that the engine control unit with
coded start release input has been designed in such a manner that the
ignition and the fuel supply are only released when a correct release
signal has been sent by the EWS control unit. The EWS control unit
inspects the key data for correctness and allows the ignition to
operate and fuel supply to be released when a correct signal has been
received.
Very interesting...but why a fuel release? If no ignition, having fuel is moot.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:19 PM   #1971
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My dealer had a meeting with that new head BMW guy a few weeks ago. He was told that the problem is fixed with the 247. I trust my dealer and my dealer trusts him, so I am going to have faith that the 247 is the magical fix.

I guess those of us that are left a little uncertain will have to check back here from time to time to see if there are any problems with the 247 as it gets installed on more and more units and gets more and more miles.

Keep your fingers crossed!
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:29 PM   #1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
And not to be argumentative..but how is a key chip considered a computer? And the key/antenna "returning a different value everytime" is contradicted by the assigned codes given to each VIN by BMW...you can only use one and that one is the code assigned to the current VIN/key/ecu/antenna combo.
A computer is a digital device that computes. That is, given a (digital) input it produces a (digital) output based on the program it runs. Whether the program is hard-coded (Turing) or modifiable (van Neuman) doesn't matter.

A chip is a little thing. Often a chip contains a computer.

--

We need to tell Poolside about how RC4 in 1994 made it into the public when an implementation appeared in what was at the time the equivalent to a forum such as this one. The leak turned the "world" on it's head, and the genie would definitely not go back in the bottle. Read the History section here.
Poolside - take your friends out for dinner and let the Ripasso for primo be followed by an Amarone for secondo, Muscato d'Asti for dolce, and then limoncello. Then, post it anonymously here. OK?

[TaSK]
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:33 PM   #1973
Wallowa
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Thanks SCQTT..That IS Good News..

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
My dealer had a meeting with that new head BMW guy a few weeks ago. He was told that the problem is fixed with the 247. I trust my dealer and my dealer trusts him, so I am going to have faith that the 247 is the magical fix.

I guess those of us that are left a little uncertain will have to check back here from time to time to see if there are any problems with the 247 as it gets installed on more and more units and gets more and more miles.

Keep your fingers crossed!
That is good news!...not pressing the point..but will BMW retro #247s in all bike models that potentially have defective antenna? Or do we have to wait for a EWS stranding and then get one installed by BMW? Also wonder if BMW will put #247 antenna in EWS stranded bikes for gratis...anyway I really hope this puts the EWS issue to bed.

Ps...flat tires are an expected and normally prepared for event..ignition failures are not normal and many owners don't have a clue about the EWS issue or the fix ...while they may carry a flat kit ...unless you read this forum few will carry a spare antenna..
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:40 PM   #1974
SCQTT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
That is good news!...not pressing the point..but will BMW retro #247s in all bike models that potentially have defective antenna? Or do we have to wait for a EWS stranding and then get one installed by BMW? Also wonder if BMW will put #247 antenna in EWS stranded bikes for gratis...anyway I really hope this puts the EWS issue to bed.

No idea with your questions. My 07 GSA sits in the garage because I'm too busy to get it to the dealer until later this month. I had an EWS @ 3,300 miles & I'm not going to chance riding it (it will start now that it is sitting in my garage)

I have no idea what they will do, but my guess is they will only replace the ones that have had a problem.
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:46 PM   #1975
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Desperate owners may accept the '247 antenna as the fix. But the coool clear water is the EWS manual override that Siemens built into the EWS/ECU at the factory.


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Old 06-03-2008, 04:57 PM   #1976
Wallowa
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No, No, No..Don't Be Obtuse!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
Desperate owners may accept the '247 antenna as the fix. But the coool clear water is the EWS manual override that Siemens built into the EWS/ECU at the factory.

Earth calling Poolside...this is babble unless you can back it up. Where is the verification of this fantasy?
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Old 06-03-2008, 04:57 PM   #1977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk
Poolside - take your friends out for dinner and let the Ripasso for primo be followed by an Amarone for secondo, Muscato d'Asti for dolce, and then limoncello. Then, post it anonymously here. OK?
I loves me some limoncello.

An honorarium is more effective with the folks at Siemens. Let them wet their beak a little.


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Old 06-03-2008, 04:59 PM   #1978
SCQTT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
Desperate owners may accept the '247 antenna as the fix. But the coool clear water is the EWS manual override that Siemens built into the EWS/ECU at the factory.


Oh yeah?

Well I know the true meaning to life, but I'm going to tell EVERY-FING-BODY but you


The bigger question to ask is why is it that every forum has got several of these "I've got a secret & you have to beg me to get an answer attention whores"?

I come here to share info and maybe rip on a few people that are knobs (pure entertainment purposes mind you) I also get ripped on by people that think I'm a knob. Isn't that all part of the fun?

Sheeeeeeite that's a weak rant.
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:01 PM   #1979
slo100
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Here is another interesting one with a bit more detail. Again, from BMW autos.

************************************************** ******
When the key is inserted in the lock cylinder and switched on, the transmit/receive module sends a 125KHz AM signal to the ring antenna. The AM signal induces voltage in the key coil (basic inductance) and powers up the transponder key.

The key then sends the key ID code to the transmit/receive module by sending back another 125KHz AM signal. The transmit/receive module converts the AM signal to a digital signal and sends it to the EWS II control module.

The EWS II module verifies the key ID code and checks to see if the key is enabled.

When the EWS II module accepts the key as being valid, it sends a password to the transmit/receive module which converts the data from digital to AM. The password is then sent to the transponder key via the ring antenna.

If the transponder accepts the password as being correct, it releases the changing code to the transmit/receive module which converts the data to a digital signal and sends it to the EWS II module.

If the changing code is recognized by the EWS II module as being correct, the status of the BC (on board computer), transmission range switch, an TD signal are examined. If all of the inputs check out, the starter relay is energized and the starter motor operates. At the same time the EWS II module sends the ISN (individual serial number) to the DME.

The EWS II module also sends a new changing code to the transponder through the transmitter/receiver and ring antenna.

If the ISN code stored in the EWS II module matches the DME's code, the drive away protection is cancelled and the motor gets squirty squirt and sparky spark.

This all takes place in under 750ms.
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:01 PM   #1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
Oh yeah?

Well I know the true meaning to life, but I'm going to tell EVERY-FING-BODY but you

Heh heh



The bigger question to ask is why is it that every forum has got several of these "I've got a secret & you have to beg me to get an answer attention whores"?

I come here to share info and maybe rip on a few people that are knobs (pure entertainment purposes mind you) I also get ripped on by people that think I'm a knob. Isn't that all part of the fun?
No one's telling you beg. That must be an involuntary response of the thirsty. You are being asked to think.


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