ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

View Results:
0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-03-2008, 04:04 PM   #1981
SCQTT
Zwei Kolben
 
SCQTT's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Mike's Sky Rancho
Oddometer: 5,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside


No one's telling you beg. You are being asked to think.

Dang, you sound like my dad.
__________________
This is SPARTA!
SCQTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 04:12 PM   #1982
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,823

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
Dang, you sound like my dad.
Well, it looks like he turned out some quality work.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 04:40 PM   #1983
slo100
Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Oddometer: 32
Here is an interesting read that goes into history and more technical detail.

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/BMW_EWS.pdf

If the EWS is operating at low frequency RFID bandwidths I can't help but think that there is a relationship to the proliferation of other items using RFID with the EWS failures. In the last three years there has been a steep increase in the use of RFID chips being placed in everyday items from potato chip bags to electronics to passports. Add to that other devices that operate or could cause interference with that frequency such as speedpass, security systems, cellphones, PDAs, ID badges, etc.

The 247 antenna must have been an improved design built in such a way that external signals are filtered. This is all very interesting to me.

At the end of the day, a bypass seem to be in order.

I found a few bypass units on ebay for cars so maybe one day we'll have one.

Bret
slo100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 04:53 PM   #1984
NBeener
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 1,521
New poll:

How many of you that experienced EWS failures have RFID chips implanted somewhere under your skin??

Come on. Fess up.

No details required!
NBeener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 05:02 PM   #1985
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,823




__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 06:13 PM   #1986
ALTO
Growing Adventurer
 
ALTO's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: 1000 Islands, Canada
Oddometer: 5
EWS! voodoo

Hello all!
This is my first post in this forum, althoughI have been following the post for about a year now. Good job, guys! I very much enjoy your informative, and frequently entertaining, posts.

Now to the point: I am the owner of a 2007 R1200GSA (made in Feb. '07) and I have had my EWS! message first appear at 972 km (app. 600 mi). It seems like a childhood illness, doesn't it?

Fortunately, the message went away after 20 mins and all was fine. It came back later to haunt me again in various occassions, but the bike has been good to me as I always managed to overcome the problem after a few minutes.

I observed that the problem NEVER occured when I first shut of the bike using the kill switch (and then turned the key to off position). When I turnen the engine one using the reverse process all was fine 100% of the times. However, when I shut of the bike using the key directly, the EWS! message whould flash whenever I attempted to turn it back on again, especially when the interval between OFF/ON was only a few minutes. This pattern was also consistent. I talked to the deler and he is going to snap in a new one in my upcoming first service (I currently have 1300 km on the odometer). It all seems voodoo to me...

So, this is my experience so far, which may be of some help. to some. I am sorry for not being able to provide anything but phenological observations, backed up by no rational explanation. I do not know how common this pattern may be. Also, I have not cheched the # of the antenna ring, so I do not know what batch it is (it will be replaced in 2 days -I may then give you feedback).

This contradicts previous posts advising against using the kill switch...so, go figure

Cheers!
ALTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 07:23 PM   #1987
onesaintsfan
BigJohnHart
 
onesaintsfan's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: McComb MS, where men are men and sheep are nervous
Oddometer: 1,305
Eek 08 Gsa-adv ?

HaS any EWS failed on 2008 GSA-ADV that we know of ?
__________________
John Hart McComb MS
2003 Ducati 999s
2008 BMW R1200GSA Mary Jane
2005 Chaparral 210ssi " Native Sun II "
onesaintsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 07:25 PM   #1988
YetiGS
No Talent Ass Clown
 
YetiGS's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 7,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
New poll:

How many of you that experienced EWS failures have RFID chips implanted somewhere under your skin??

Come on. Fess up.

No details required!
I could tell you. But then I'd have to kill you.





Seriously, how could an RFID chip in close proximity have anything to do with this? Wouldn't it have to be in close proximity EVERY time the fault occurred?

I continue to believe that it's a mechanical issue, likely related to cold/heat cycles causing the plastic to expand and contract, breaking something electronic (like a wire) inside the ring. BMW simply made it more robust and now it's good to go.
__________________
-Scott-
Semper Fi
'04 BMW R1150GSA, '04 KTM 625 SXC
"You had better bring an extra magazine. Yeti's amped up on weird shit are hard to bring down." Lonestar2112
YetiGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 07:26 PM   #1989
BMRHD
Gnarly Adventurer
 
BMRHD's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Country of Oregon
Oddometer: 179
Yeppir

Yes mine failed on my 08 GSA. Totally failed and had to be towed.
BMRHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 07:30 PM   #1990
YetiGS
No Talent Ass Clown
 
YetiGS's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 7,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesaintsfan
HaS any EWS failed on 2008 GSA-ADV that we know of ?
Yes, see post 1861 for an example. The early '08 bikes did not have the 247 ring.
__________________
-Scott-
Semper Fi
'04 BMW R1150GSA, '04 KTM 625 SXC
"You had better bring an extra magazine. Yeti's amped up on weird shit are hard to bring down." Lonestar2112
YetiGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2008, 08:53 PM   #1991
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,204
Do The New '08s Have #247?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS
Yes, see post 1861 for an example. The early '08 bikes did not have the 247 ring.
Has anyone confirmed that current '08 bikes all come with #247?
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2008, 12:59 AM   #1992
Anorak
Woolf Barnato
 
Anorak's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: OAK
Oddometer: 32,855
Facts.

Immobilizer code transmission:
When a key is inserted into the ignition switch and switched on, the BMS-K is energized and provides power and ground to the EWS Evaluation Electronics Module. It simultaneously energizes the ring antenna which generates an inductance in the vicinity of the key (up to 2 cm).

The inductance energizes the transponder, which allows communication between the transponder and the evaluation electronics module to occur. The transponder outputs a key identity code along with a rolling code in the form of an AM (amplitude modulated) radio signal message. The signal is processed and sent to the BMS-K as an input signal.

Immobilizer code data structure:
The codes used during the handshake are generated from an Immobilizer Rolling Code table assigned to the VIN at the time of manufacturing. The BMS-K and corresponding ignition keys are encoded with this unique data making them an electronically mated pair for one particular motorcycle. The code table provides the codes for each key and a source for BMS-K to check the generated code for each key. Of the three keys supplied with a new motorcycle, each one is uniquely identified (key #, i.e.: 1, 2, or 3). Each key additionally then has a unique immobilizer code.

During the key on sequence, the BMS K first identifies the key sending the code data and then confirms the transmitted immobilizer code for that key. There is the possibility of a maximum of ten keys per system. However, the key must be ordered specifically by the VIN and activated with the GT1.

found written on a golden tablet in the desert
__________________
'Gonna get me a six pack...push people off the highway!'

"they live off the carrion of our mutual distrust and bribe us with symbols that equate hatred with manhood."

"I mean at the end of the day, I was addicted to Starting Fluid for Christ's sake!"

"Yeah, that guy sure is terrible at touching moms"
Anorak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2008, 03:47 AM   #1993
slo100
Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Oddometer: 32
I didn't say that. What I said was that it is possible that interference from any number of sources (security systems, cell phones, speed passes, etc.) could cause interference at the low frequency bandwidth the EWS system uses and interrupt the communication between the key and the system. An RFID engineer could better explain this but as I understand it, low frequency AM radio signals may carry over longer distances and be prone to interference. With all the RFID, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Radar Detector, GPS, and whatever else there is out there sending out signals across the frequency spectrum it stands to reason there *may* be a correlation.

If you are correct and the antennas are physically breaking, how do you account for the large number of instances where after a period of time the bikes would start again? This happened to me three times.

If you are correct and the antennas are physically breaking because of expanding and contracting plastic (I just can't get on board with this, but I digress) none of the bikes would have started on subsequent attempts.

I read a thread on a UK GS forum where a high number of failures occurred at filling stations with speedpass-type key fob accutated pumps. Once the bikes were moved away from the pumps they started. This got me thinking about all the things that could possibly interfere with the EWS transmissions and disable the bikes under certain conditions.

Bret




Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS
I could tell you. But then I'd have to kill you.





Seriously, how could an RFID chip in close proximity have anything to do with this? Wouldn't it have to be in close proximity EVERY time the fault occurred?

I continue to believe that it's a mechanical issue, likely related to cold/heat cycles causing the plastic to expand and contract, breaking something electronic (like a wire) inside the ring. BMW simply made it more robust and now it's good to go.
slo100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2008, 04:47 AM   #1994
jpalamar
Beastly Adventurer
 
jpalamar's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL (Northeast FL, USA)
Oddometer: 3,080
Iron Butt, Antenna Ring, ADVRIDER Influence...

Got a call last week from an acquaintance in another part of the state that's doing an Iron Butt this coming weekend. We chatted a bit and he's in the gray area of whether his bike has the new ring which is an '08 Adv with a build date of April. Doesn't seem like the dealer can tell him specifically what ring it is without removing the ring.

So, last night he calls and decided that for 82 bucks, peace of mind worth it. I talked him thru the change procedure on the phone. For those that have done it the hardest part IMO is releasing the tab lock on the connector and pulling out the harness.

So now the question becomes: Is this ADVRIDER threadfest a true public service to riders or a prophet of gloom and doom inciting FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt)?

My opinion is a strong vote for public service and we should be thankful for threads like this. Of course others will disagree, rightfully so.
__________________
2007 R1200GS Adv DMC Hack
2014 R1200WCGS

jpalamar screwed with this post 06-04-2008 at 05:13 AM
jpalamar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2008, 05:08 AM   #1995
GB
Mod Squad
 
GB's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto, ON
Oddometer: 55,550
If your buddy removes the small plastic cover at the front of the EWS antenna exposing the wiring harness, he should be able to determine the part number, it's visible from the front.
__________________
ADV decals, patches & flag? Here
GB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014