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Old 06-04-2008, 06:12 AM   #1996
jpalamar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
If your buddy removes the small plastic cover at the front of the EWS antenna exposing the wiring harness, he should be able to determine the part number, it's visible from the front.
Now I'm feeling like an idiot and may have to rush home to check your data Rick. I don't have to remove the cover, just look on the spare I have. Have you bought your spare yet and is the part no. on the spare the visible part you are talking about??? Thanks for making me look dumb...just joking of course.

BTW, I (personally, not necessarily recommended) would still carry the spare, as I do.
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:19 AM   #1997
gsmoto31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
Has anyone confirmed that current '08 bikes all come with #247?
According to BMW (don't laugh), all bikes with mid-March and later build dates have the new 247 ring antennas. My 08 GSA had an earlier build date and the 136 ring antenna. Hence, it failed last weekend.
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:20 AM   #1998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
The chip is not a computer but a signal source that is pre-coded..of course I am not a computer person, but don't believe that a chip qualifies as a computer..I think of it like the old fashion tuned crystals in crystal radios.

Tagesk..The question I had of "why this done by BMW" was the setup of multi-codes that BMW pre-assigns to a specific VIN. Why would they set up mulitple codes for one bike if only one can be used at any one time? ..chip in key/ECU set to one of those codes.. perhaps is you lose a key and you are afraid a bike thief has that key, you would want to change out the entire code...
Absolutely right, it is not. It is a simple chip with ONE code permanently burned into it. When the computer goes looking for the code to match it sends a signal to the antenna ring with transmits the signal which is received by the antenna ring. The chip is activated (for lack of a better word) by the energy from the antenna ring and reflects back the implanted code completing the request for verification by the computer.

ONE computer, one antenna ring, one chip in the key with a tiny receiver/transmitter antenna built into it.

This is the exact same type of technology used everywhere, and which I have designed training on for tens of thousands. Of course, to make it understandable to a layman (I am not an engineer myself), I have oversimplified it, but it is basically accurate.

Jim
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:23 AM   #1999
gsmoto31
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Changing ring antennas

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamar
For those that have done it the hardest part IMO is releasing the tab lock on the connector and pulling out the harness.
After going through the procedure myself, I agree completely. A small flat head screwdriver would have been very helpful to easily release the tab.
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:36 AM   #2000
GB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamar
Now I'm feeling like an idiot and may have to rush home to check your data Rick. I don't have to remove the cover, just look on the spare I have. Have you bought your spare yet and is the part no. on the spare the visible part you are talking about??? Thanks for making me look dumb...just joking of course.

BTW, I (personally, not necessarily recommended) would still carry the spare, as I do.
Yes, the part number is visible from the front. I'm going out west this summer, so I gave in to the paranoia and bought one, but it's not the 247 part, it's the 207. I'm going to test it soon to be sure it's not DOA. But my bike's an 05 and has over 30K on the clock, so I think I'm statistically out of the woods.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:52 AM   #2001
tyrannosaurus_mex
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This is my exact experience! I had pulled up to a convenience store, one where the attendant register station was very close to the front door and right in front of where I was parked. I did move the bike away and after some other tinkering, disconnecting the battery and as I explained in another post, turning the ignition system on while the kill switch was engaged, the bike started. It started several times after that as well. However, I went ahead and had the ring replaced as a precautionary measure.

I think many of us have had different experiences with these and maybe we're grouping them into one thread. I guess it's possible that some kind of interference has played into some of our experiences and the ring physically going bad may have happened to others. Hell even the water issue someone mentioned way back is a possibility. There may be several explanations...which may be what has caused us to go around in circles on this!

Notice I use "may be" a lot in this post. Who really KNOWS?!?!

Well maybe JVB knows and he is just enjoying watching us fall all over this!!! Sick and twisted man that he is!


Quote:
Originally Posted by slo100
I didn't say that. What I said was that it is possible that interference from any number of sources (security systems, cell phones, speed passes, etc.) could cause interference at the low frequency bandwidth the EWS system uses and interrupt the communication between the key and the system. An RFID engineer could better explain this but as I understand it, low frequency AM radio signals may carry over longer distances and be prone to interference. With all the RFID, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Radar Detector, GPS, and whatever else there is out there sending out signals across the frequency spectrum it stands to reason there *may* be a correlation.

If you are correct and the antennas are physically breaking, how do you account for the large number of instances where after a period of time the bikes would start again? This happened to me three times.

If you are correct and the antennas are physically breaking because of expanding and contracting plastic (I just can't get on board with this, but I digress) none of the bikes would have started on subsequent attempts.

I read a thread on a UK GS forum where a high number of failures occurred at filling stations with speedpass-type key fob accutated pumps. Once the bikes were moved away from the pumps they started. This got me thinking about all the things that could possibly interfere with the EWS transmissions and disable the bikes under certain conditions.

Bret
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:55 AM   #2002
jpalamar
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Book Publishing Rights?

Hey,
Do I need site permission to publish a "How Not To DIY" book on servicing BMW motorcycles, using this threadfest?
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:08 AM   #2003
tyrannosaurus_mex
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One Ring To Rule Them All, One Ring To Find Them, One Ring To Bring Them All And In The Darkness Bind Them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Absolutely right, it is not. It is a simple chip with ONE code permanently burned into it. When the computer goes looking for the code to match it sends a signal to the antenna ring with transmits the signal which is received by the antenna ring. The chip is activated (for lack of a better word) by the energy from the antenna ring and reflects back the implanted code completing the request for verification by the computer.

ONE computer, one antenna ring, one chip in the key with a tiny receiver/transmitter antenna built into it.

This is the exact same type of technology used everywhere, and which I have designed training on for tens of thousands. Of course, to make it understandable to a layman (I am not an engineer myself), I have oversimplified it, but it is basically accurate.

Jim
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:35 AM   #2004
PRW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
Has anyone confirmed that current '08 bikes all come with #247?
My ticking time bomb - oh sorry, I mean my 08 12GS, has a 136-01
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:47 AM   #2005
Exurban
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Has anyone replaced an antenna ring? As a precautionary measure I went ahead and had the bolts drilled out and replaced. According to the fiche looks like they hold up the ring, steering lock mechanism and ignition switch. I have an '08 with 136-01, 900 miles and leaving in 24 hours on a 13,000 mile jaunt to Alaska with a spare 247. just wondering.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:25 AM   #2006
SCQTT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exurban
Has anyone replaced an antenna ring? As a precautionary measure I went ahead and had the bolts drilled out and replaced. According to the fiche looks like they hold up the ring, steering lock mechanism and ignition switch. I have an '08 with 136-01, 900 miles and leaving in 24 hours on a 13,000 mile jaunt to Alaska with a spare 247. just wondering.

Sounds like that was a smart move on your part. You might want to practice uplugging and plugging in the new one, I hear that can be a bitch.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:51 AM   #2007
mtnfan
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Hi John,
the part# on my 08GSA build in April is 6135 7705247-01.I assume this is the new upgraded #.
So I should be ok for my IRON BUTT ride on Sat.
Thanks
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Old 06-04-2008, 01:06 PM   #2008
YetiGS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo100
If you are correct and the antennas are physically breaking, how do you account for the large number of instances where after a period of time the bikes would start again? This happened to me three times.

If you are correct and the antennas are physically breaking because of expanding and contracting plastic (I just can't get on board with this, but I digress) none of the bikes would have started on subsequent attempts.
I didn't say I was correct, I just slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

The theory on the bikes that re-start later is that expansion of the ring due to heat causes the wire to break/separate. When the ring cools (for whatever reason) the wire is reacquainted with itself. It seems to me this could account for the intermittant starting.

My problem with the RFID theory is that there are too many folks who have had this happen to them out in the middle of nowhere and who do not have any RFID chips anywhere near the key/on their person.

I don't know though. I'm just trying to make a SWAG based upon the information I've read.
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Old 06-04-2008, 02:25 PM   #2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS
I don't know though. I'm just trying to make a SWAG based upon the information I've read.
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Old 06-04-2008, 03:50 PM   #2010
slo100
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Well, we may never know but I like to do the reading and make my un-educated guess, too! In any event, hopefully we can come to closure one way or another with a solution!!!

I just got a call that my dealer is getting a batch of 247 units next week and one has my name on it!

Bret

Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS
I didn't say I was correct, I just slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

The theory on the bikes that re-start later is that expansion of the ring due to heat causes the wire to break/separate. When the ring cools (for whatever reason) the wire is reacquainted with itself. It seems to me this could account for the intermittant starting.

My problem with the RFID theory is that there are too many folks who have had this happen to them out in the middle of nowhere and who do not have any RFID chips anywhere near the key/on their person.

I don't know though. I'm just trying to make a SWAG based upon the information I've read.
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