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Old 06-23-2008, 08:44 PM   #2401
SCQTT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo100
Poor moisture sealing in some antennas rendered them inoperative thereby paralyzing a large number of 07 and 08 models. The story I got was the moisture impacted the ability of the antenna to pickup and transmit the key's signal to the brain and tripped the EWS.

Apparently the issue has been resolved with a new part # antenna.

My bike has never been wet.........never, no rain no, water hose, no dew. 100% in a garage its whole life. I know, I know........sad.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:07 PM   #2402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen
I am reminded of this quote from the AA Big Book (4th edition) page 568.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
Herbert Spencer


JJ
Spare me the liberal pomposity. I show no contempt. I am simply seeking the truth, hence the motive behind my questions. I have no axe to grind.

If moisture is the culprit does it work again when allowed to dry? What exactly changed with the new 247 part?
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:35 PM   #2403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davegaz
Spare me the liberal pomposity. I show no contempt. I am simply seeking the truth, hence the motive behind my questions. I have no axe to grind.
It's cool dude. If you think "Contempt prior to investigation" doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't.


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Old 06-23-2008, 09:36 PM   #2404
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Damn Well Stated...

[quote=davegaz]Spare me the liberal pomposity. I show no contempt. I am simply seeking the truth, hence the motive behind my questions. I have no axe to grind.

If moisture is the culprit does it work again when allowed to dry? What exactly changed with the new 247 part?[/quote]

Dave..the answer is that nobody on this forum has that information or if they do they are remaining mute. Nobody knows if BMW knows the cause and effect leading to the EWS strandings. Nada...zip.

And JJ..I did read that goofy post from PoolBoy...you do remember this part don't you? "Read between the lines above, "... after the quasi bar room lawyer attempt of spouting regulations that did not answer squat.... "Reading between the lines" is what makes this style of insinuation and oblique references in lieu of definitive information a joke.

If you read on page 569 of that same tome it will say to turn over your doubts to a "Higher Power"...perhaps for you PoolBoy is that Power but he sure as hell is not for me. If it talks like a bullshiter and quotes like a bullshiter chances are it is a bullshiter...want to disprove this? Give this forum the reference for a BMW disabling method for the EWS systems on our motorcycles.


[type in facts here]




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Old 06-23-2008, 09:42 PM   #2405
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I guess I'm responsible for you not having the information then.

Heck, if that's true, have you written your letter to me asking for the information? Or are you just complaining to the wrong party on a forum?


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Old 06-23-2008, 10:39 PM   #2406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davegaz
Spare me the liberal pomposity. I show no contempt. I am simply seeking the truth, hence the motive behind my questions. I have no axe to grind.

If moisture is the culprit does it work again when allowed to dry? What exactly changed with the new 247 part?
If I meant my quote to be directed at you I would have included your post in mine.

This example could be considered as proof of that which you refute.

Or not.

JJ
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:38 AM   #2407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
snip

Dave..the answer is that nobody on this forum has that information or if they do they are remaining mute. Nobody knows if BMW knows the cause and effect leading to the EWS strandings. Nada...zip.

And JJ..I did read that goofy post from PoolBoy...you do remember this part don't you? "Read between the lines above, "... after the quasi bar room lawyer attempt of spouting regulations that did not answer squat.... "Reading between the lines" is what makes this style of insinuation and oblique references in lieu of definitive information a joke.

If you read on page 569 of that same tome it will say to turn over your doubts to a "Higher Power"...perhaps for you PoolBoy is that Power but he sure as hell is not for me. If it talks like a bullshiter and quotes like a bullshiter chances are it is a bullshiter...want to disprove this? Give this forum the reference for a BMW disabling method for the EWS systems on our motorcycles.


[type in facts here]


No big surprise, did not think you could.
Well then you've convinced me.

Yep, you're totally screwed. I don't include myself or poolman because we both own 1150's. As such we don't have a dog in this fight.

And just like multiple instances in the past BMW will probably do nothing to 'fix' this outside of using all 12XX owners as their test beds and since all of this takes time you can just twist in the wind. And remember that the extent of the repair will be to reduce the # of failures to an acceptable level. NOT to allow a work around.

How many times has this type of scenario already happened? And of those how many have been resolved? And in one case they completely re-designed the final drive…

Yep, you're right there is no hope in this approach and since even the possibility of trying a completely different approach is completely futile, why bother…

Why even try…

There just can't be any hope, so give up now before you get your hopes dashed yet again.

And you know what? Here we are trying to help and as I mentioned above we don't even own 12XX's.

So what solution do you have?

Just curious…

JJ
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• The farther you enter into the Truth the deeper your conviction for truth must be.
• There is understanding of the world precisely to the degree that there is understanding of the Self.

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Collected Works of the WingMakers Volume 1 pg. 590

johnjen screwed with this post 06-24-2008 at 12:44 AM
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:28 AM   #2408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen
Well then you've convinced me.

Yep, you're totally screwed. I don't include myself or poolman because we both own 1150's. As such we don't have a dog in this fight.

And just like multiple instances in the past BMW will probably do nothing to 'fix' this outside of using all 12XX owners as their test beds and since all of this takes time you can just twist in the wind. And remember that the extent of the repair will be to reduce the # of failures to an acceptable level. NOT to allow a work around.

How many times has this type of scenario already happened? And of those how many have been resolved? And in one case they completely re-designed the final drive…

Yep, you're right there is no hope in this approach and since even the possibility of trying a completely different approach is completely futile, why bother…

Why even try…

There just can't be any hope, so give up now before you get your hopes dashed yet again.

And you know what? Here we are trying to help and as I mentioned above we don't even own 12XX's.

So what solution do you have?

Just curious…

JJ
The only solution is to buy Harleys and ride. I have my older part number(pre-247) on my 2008 Adv and everytime I turn the key on there is that brief moment where I hold my breath and wonder if the gods from Germany look down upon me with grace and bestow upon me the ability to start my $20K+ steed. If they choose to then I ride and if not then I will go to the closest internet drop and post-up for all to see. Poolside will ask if I have written a letter yet, others will blame it on der Fuhrer, and I will call my trailer boy and have him bring out a Harley on which to ride home whilst my German knave is once again loaded on the trailer. Some of the finest moments on a motorcycle have been riding my Harley's after a BMW failure. It is one side of me winning an argument saying "I told you so" to the other side with a big grin on half of my face. It is a metaphysical, dual personality transformation as I fire up that Milwaukee twin and cast off my synthetic garments whilst John Mellencamp sings a diddy in the background. I almost feel like Lieutenant Dan in "Forrest Gump" when he is on the shrimp boat and the storm rolls in and he straps himself to the mast and shakes his fist skyward exclaiming "Is that all you've got?" Bring on the EWS. I have already done the Final Drive at 106 miles. I am sure the transmission seals will only make it another 5k miles or so and then there are always splines to worry about. My 2005 GS had a few issues until it got 10K miles on it and then it took me the next 24K miles needing nothing except maintenance. It took me to the Arctic, Mexico, and daily traffic hence the reason I am back at the trough. If I live till next year my 2008 ADV will be taking me to Alaska once again...EWS or not I imagine
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:14 AM   #2409
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I feel like such a dufuss, I wish I had never read this stupid thread. Just got back from a four-day backcountry adventure on my '07 Adventure in BC, 200 miles from the closest BMW dealer (200 miles from anything in BC is a long from anything) and often times 50 miles from the closest dinky backwater town. Dirt, water crossings, rock strewn roads, dust and more dust. Turned my bike off often, and fueled it up at various gas stations along the way.

Becuase of this stupid thread I feared my whole trip ending in a flat bed tow-mater truck, well it didn't happen, the sky didn't fall, and neither did the bike, just rode and rode the damn thing and had a blast.

In fact none of the other BMW GSs had a failure either, we just rode and rode.

If it happens someday, well, I guess I've been warned, until then I'm just going to ride ride ride and put all this fear your bike shit where it belongs - here on the interweb of fear and overblown disinformation.

Fork it, get over it or sell the damn bike and buy something with points and a carburetor.

This bike is just too damn much fun to fret over something I have no control of...


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Go ahead call me a cool-aid drinker, I have four BMWs with a combined 80K smiles and the one FD failure (R1150GS) probably saved my marriage. Or, at least ensured I went on a solo trip without her...

Cherry I like cherry the best.

Just ride it or sell it, there is a Honda dealer close by...
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:41 AM   #2410
slo100
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There are a lot of philosophers here.

I was told moisture was the causal factor of the faulty antennas by the owner of my dealership. He said that information was shared with him at a BMW dealer's conference he attended in May. He also expressed hope that a service bulletin would be issued soon. This is precisely what I was told just after I submitted a complaint about his dealership because they refused to replace my antenna after I had seen a three intermittent EWS errors. I went round and round with the service advisor and mechanic when I picked up my bike and was left with an unsatisfactory experience but I digress, that is another story.

Unless he was lying, misleading me, or himself not clear about the issue...the answer is poorly sealed antennas.





[quote=Wallowa]
Quote:
Originally Posted by davegaz
Spare me the liberal pomposity. I show no contempt. I am simply seeking the truth, hence the motive behind my questions. I have no axe to grind.

If moisture is the culprit does it work again when allowed to dry? What exactly changed with the new 247 part?[/quote]

Dave..the answer is that nobody on this forum has that information or if they do they are remaining mute. Nobody knows if BMW knows the cause and effect leading to the EWS strandings. Nada...zip.

And JJ..I did read that goofy post from PoolBoy...you do remember this part don't you? "Read between the lines above, "... after the quasi bar room lawyer attempt of spouting regulations that did not answer squat.... "Reading between the lines" is what makes this style of insinuation and oblique references in lieu of definitive information a joke.

If you read on page 569 of that same tome it will say to turn over your doubts to a "Higher Power"...perhaps for you PoolBoy is that Power but he sure as hell is not for me. If it talks like a bullshiter and quotes like a bullshiter chances are it is a bullshiter...want to disprove this? Give this forum the reference for a BMW disabling method for the EWS systems on our motorcycles.


[type in facts here]




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Old 06-24-2008, 08:02 AM   #2411
PRW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo100
Poor moisture sealing in some antennas rendered them inoperative thereby paralyzing a large number of 07 and 08 models. The story I got was the moisture impacted the ability of the antenna to pickup and transmit the key's signal to the brain and tripped the EWS.

Apparently the issue has been resolved with a new part # antenna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slo100
I was told moisture was the causal factor of the faulty antennas by the owner of my dealership. He said that information was shared with him at a BMW dealer's conference he attended in May. He also expressed hope that a service bulletin would be issued soon.
Well, it's certainly possible and I certainly don't want to be accused guilty of violating the "contempt prior to investigation principle" , but my -136 failure last week occurred in Las Vegas, where it was 112-degrees F and bone dry. The only water the bike had seen prior to that failure, was ONE quick rinse-off, 8 days before my trip began, 2,400 miles earlier. After 6,000 miles on my new '08, I have, for some strange stroke of luck, combined with Garmin technology, managed to avoid any rain thus far (XM weather on my Garmin 478 is very handy).

So, moisture = possible, yes. Poor design and/or environmental/stress testing and/or quality control = ABSOLUTELY.

Hopefully the -247 is the magic bullet and I have also bought a spare, but I'm not holding my breath yet. In any case, I do think writing letters to BMW corporate may be effective and certainly can not hurt.

P.S. Oh - and I neglected to mention that my buddy's '08 12GS (also with a -136), 7 VINs apart from mine, failed less than a day before mine did. His has NEVER seen either precipitation or a wash and had less than 1K miles on it. His failure occurred in Chicago, where the environmental conditions are quite disparate from where mine occurred.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:36 AM   #2412
mb90535im
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I can't believe they even put these '08's on the road with this known problem.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:59 PM   #2413
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Well you adventure-type fellas have certainly subdued your fear.

The immobilizer manual override from Siemens and BMW will compliment that nicely.

For sure the EWS manual override is the only substitute when out on the road, or off it.


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Old 06-24-2008, 01:11 PM   #2414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRW
Well, it's certainly possible... but my -136 failure last week occurred in Las Vegas, where it was 112-degrees F and bone dry.

So, moisture = possible, yes. Poor design and/or environmental/stress testing and/or quality control = ABSOLUTELY.

Hopefully the -247 is the magic bullet and I have also bought a spare, but I'm not holding my breath yet. In any case, I do think writing letters to BMW corporate may be effective and certainly can not hurt.

P.S. Oh... my buddy's '08 12GS... failed less than a day before mine did. His has NEVER seen either precipitation or a wash and had less than 1K miles on it. His failure occurred in Chicago, where the environmental conditions are quite disparate from where mine occurred.
History shows the human mind is uncomfortable when it doesn't know why something happened. Even when told why something happened it may still be uncomfortable because the 'what happened' may not be believable to that person. Believable stories are fashioned in their stead.

Moisture and RF interference and a few other reasons are somehow the main causes for wireless failures. Regardless what the actual cause may be. These reasons work because they are acceptable causes for failure to the layperson.

The failure though, is Siemens and BMW not disclosing the EWS manual override.


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Old 06-24-2008, 02:21 PM   #2415
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Well, my '07 R1200GS adventure EWS raised its ugly head today with 4800 miles. I was out in the middle of no where getting a tag for our local club. Luckily after calling the service department he recommended that I wiggle the key and if it started to get it home and call BMW road side assistance. They are now on the way.

Has anyone had the EWS failure after a new one has been installed or is the new part a permanent fix? Hate to be 2000 miles from home and not be able to start the bike.
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