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Old 07-05-2007, 06:28 PM   #241
big adv
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heres a thought you could take the coil off the ign., dig the transponder out of the key, call tt to make a 25 piece specialty mount that is shock absorbing, put the coil and transponder on it, and for good measure, wire in a peltier cell to keep it cool, and then mount it deep in the boules of your bike. or you could just ride it!
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:32 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
Here's some operational EWS information. It's important.

Many EWS systems, including BMW, have an additional security feature built into the EWS software inside the ECU.

If an incorrect ignition key is inserted into the lock and turned, a lock-out countdown timer starts. The lock-out prevents the correct key from working for some amount of time. The lock-out time is programmable in the ECU software by the factory diagnostic equipment. In some vehicles the lock-out time can be as long as 21 hours.

And a potential kicker, sometimes the countdown clock only runs with the correct key in the ignition, and the ignition turned on.

More often, the lock-out time is only programmed to a couple of minutes. And it usually requires the correct key in the ignition and the ignition turned on.

I have yet to get any confirmation out of BMW's technical resources regarding this portion of the EWS system, most folks aren't even aware this is part of the protocol on other vehicles systems. However it is the only exlpanation for the intermittent issues I had with my buddies bike. It would go into immobilization for at least an hour and it had the correct key/chipped at all times. It didn't happen frequently but the 4 times it did prevent starting the bike it did so for a minimum of an hour after the last cylcing of the ignition. The bike would sit or be transported and then amazingly start right up making it very difficult to trouble shoot. I have heard others try to associate nextel and 2 way radio interference with the EWS in reference to intermittent failures, but there has been no conclusive evidence of such.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:56 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Atlanta
I have yet to get any confirmation out of BMW's technical resources regarding this portion of the EWS system, most folks aren't even aware this is part of the protocol on other vehicles systems.

However it is the only exlpanation for the intermittent issues I had with my buddies bike.

It would go into immobilization for at least an hour and it had the correct key/chipped at all times.

The bike would sit or be transported and then amazingly start right up making it very difficult to trouble shoot.
Prolly some antennas were amazingly replaced unnecessarily. Amazing.

Check all of the GT1 screens, or RTFM cover-to-cover (unless it's electronic of course ).

Aftermarket tools exist to reprogram the EWS lockout time. And program more keys into the ECU. And reprogram keys.


I do not think confirmation from BMW is necessary.

The EWS lockout time is part of an optional waiver application that manufacturers can make to the DOT. With the right features, a manufacturer can get a 'security waiver' from the DOT. With the security waiver the mfg does not need to put ID markings on the fender and door panel sheet metal and such. BMW just got their latest DOT waiver, for the E3 model, in 2007.


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Old 07-05-2007, 07:06 PM   #244
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So Jim, I get the need for the proper plug pictures, but how do you know the proper resistance of the RFID antenna?

Jim

PS I am involved with RFID for passports and other documentation.
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Old 07-05-2007, 07:19 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
So Jim, I get the need for the proper plug pictures, but how do you know the proper resistance of the RFID antenna?
Mongo know everything. Mongo read dusty application note. I no understand AC coupled at first, but Mongo stick with it and figure it out.

How about those pictures man.


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Old 07-05-2007, 07:30 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside


Prolly some antennas were amazingly replaced unnecessarily. Amazing.

Check all of the GT1 screens, or RTFM cover-to-cover (unless it's electronic of course ).

Aftermarket tools exist to reprogram the EWS lockout time. And program more keys into the ECU. And reprogram keys.


I do not think confirmation from BMW is necessary.

The EWS lockout time is part of an optional waiver application that manufacturers can make to the DOT. With the right features, a manufacturer can get a 'security waiver' from the DOT. With the security waiver the mfg does not need to put ID markings on the fender and door panel sheet metal and such. BMW just got their latest DOT waiver, for the E3 model, in 2007.

Without a doubt we do not want to just assume it's the antennae in the event of an EWS fault/no start situation which that point has not really been brought up here, however it is the most likely candidate in the majority of instances. There is the issue of connectivity and software which seems to be more stable then the darn antennae in the system, but none the less we went to great lengths to properly test all other circuits on my buddies bike before resorting to plugging a new antennae and hope it doesn't do it again. BMW didn't want eveyone to jump the gun and start replacing antennae's at the first sign of a problem, however the handful of times we've followed this process it ended up being as simple as replacing the antennae regardless of the fact the BMSK and GT1 said the antennae tested OK. Well it hasn't done it again and it's been enough miles and time to feel all warm inside again.
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Old 07-05-2007, 07:33 PM   #247
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I'm not making assumptions, I'm just being polite. Antennas and other specifications weren't brought up here because the vehicle owners are understandably not familiar with the EWS standard.

It makes sense that the antenna could check out ok with the ECU and diagnostic tester. And it makes sense that replaced antennas and billable hours be the last resort. What do your bulletins say?


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Old 07-05-2007, 08:54 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
I'm not making assumptions, I'm just being polite. Antennas and other specifications weren't brought up here because the vehicle owners are understandably not familiar with the EWS standard.

It makes sense that the antenna could check out ok with the ECU and diagnostic tester. And it makes sense that replaced antennas and billable hours be the last resort. What do your bulletins say?


To rely on the BMSK and GT1 diagnostic tool
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:30 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Atlanta
To rely on the BMSK and GT1 diagnostic tool
Heh heh, that's rich


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Old 07-06-2007, 08:33 AM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
...One of the tracking vectors had them placed inside salmon, which would end inside bears...
Which could conceivably have enabled us to answer the age-old question, "Does a bear sh*t in the woods?"

Back on topic now, am I correct in understanding the tamper-proof antenna bolts can be drilled out without much disassembly of the front end of the bike?
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:36 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Hatcher
Which could conceivably have enabled us to answer the age-old question, "Does a bear sh*t in the woods?"

Back on topic now, am I correct in understanding the tamper-proof antenna bolts can be drilled out without much disassembly of the front end of the bike?
Upper/top triple tree needs to be removed. The nut on the pivot point needs to be torqued properly upon re-install. Other then that it's not terribly involved. We like filling the new allen head bolts with silicone that replaced the security screws. Makes it a little less inviting for tampering.
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:14 AM   #252
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Wicked Just For Giggles...

Hey, could one of you more organized folks list the "non-problems" that BMW refuses to acknowledge that have occurred in the past three years on BMW bikes?

Then list the probable solutions to these "non-problems"?

Honestly why does BMW turn a blind eye to problems the occur in or that are designed into the bikes? I rant that it is arrogance, or profit margin...but it really seems more systemic...and a glib "it is Teutonic attitude" is, for me, an inadequate explanation...has it always been this way with BMW?

Follow up: How can we communicate with BMW concerning our frustrations and need for an information exchange?

Bobby...you have been the one BMW dealer that has given candid and accurate information on issues concerning our bikes...kudos and thanks!

Oddly, the paucity of any information coming from BMW has generated a close knit network of BMW owners/riders who address problems and how to feed and care for our bikes...even though the timely dissemination of information still is difficult..tough learning curve!

Phil:::
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Old 07-06-2007, 07:55 PM   #253
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Antenna Module - Road Wisdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearwaterBMW
i believe he's wrong
afterall...
you have to have a ring antenna that recognizes only YOUR keys
i believe it has to be activated....
if that isn't true.... he's the only one on earth I know who has THAT information
Due to an ring antenna module failure on a recent overseas tour that I was guiding, I can assure you of five things:

(1). If you get the dreaded EWS error message during the R12GS's self-check, your bike is as dead as it could possibly be.

(2). The Ring Antenna Module seems to either be on (a). back-order, or (b). special order-only, very few dealers carry it as a stock item.

(3). It is a BITCH to replace, contrary to a previous post on the matter. To replace the module, you have to remove tha handlebars AND the top "triple clamp" on the bike. The closest BMW dealer to us when one or our riders got the dreaded EWS waring was in Ankara, Turkey. It took them all day to replace the module, and, as was also previously noted, it is held in place with tamper-proof screws, which means even if you had a spare with you in the field, you're "screwed" unless you have a drill and bits with you. Good idea to have these replaced with more amenable fasteners now!

(4). You absolutely, positively DO NOT need the diagnostic system when the module is replaced. It is merely an antenna, the key code is stored in the bike's engine management system.

(5). We did try installing the spare/replacement module then "holding it close". Maybe we were stupid, but after four hours of messing around on a remote, hot, and black-fly infested mountain trail in Turkey, we couldn't get it to work. We had to recover the bike.

As it turns out, BMW makes a an Antenna Module Harness Extender (aka "Special Tool", with special price, of course). Using this harness, you do not need to replace a failed module, you can unplug the connector from the failed module, plug in the extension harness, plug a spare/replacement antenna at the other end of the harness, insert/hold your spare plastic key in the "remoted" spare/replacement antenna, then use your metal key in the regular ignition switch to start the bike. When the self-check cycles, it pulses the spare antenna, and the plastic key returns the corrent code.

In fact, I have ordered the extension harness, and am going to "permanently" install it, with a remoted antenna module, which will have the spare plastic key embeded in it. I'll probably stick it under the seat. With this "fix", replacement will be easy, and I can always plug the bike's connector back into the stock/OEM-installed module in case of a failure.

Out of eight R12GS on this tour, this was the only "biker killer" failure we had. The extension harness and a spare antenna module will set one back around USD$260.00, but it's the only preventative fix that I'm aware of for a very stupid failure mode on the new hexheads.
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:16 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepa
Using this harness, you do not need to replace a failed module

- unplug the connector from the failed module
- plug in the extension harness
- plug a spare/replacement antenna at the other end of the harness
- insert/hold your spare plastic key in the "remoted" spare/replacement antenna
- use your metal key in the regular ignition switch to start the bike
- When the self-check cycles, it pulses the spare antenna
- and the plastic key returns the correct code.

In fact, I have ordered the extension harness, and am going to "permanently" install it, with a remoted antenna module, which will have the spare plastic key embeded in it. I'll probably stick it under the seat. With this "fix", replacement will be easy, and I can always plug the bike's connector back into the stock/OEM-installed module in case of a failure.
The auto security aftermarket makes such an item. You can buy one for any make vehicle that has an EWS/Immobilizer ignition key. The add-on device is designed for 'remote car starting'. But the passive antenna and small enclosure can be used exactly the way you described in your post.

It's a small enclosure with a passive antenna inside. A wire from the enclosure connects to the original antenna wiring. The head of a key is placed inside the box permanently and placed out of sight on the bike. Under the seat like you suggest.


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Old 07-06-2007, 08:30 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepa
As it turns out, BMW makes a an Antenna Module Harness Extender
In fact, I have ordered the extension harness, and am going to "permanently" install it, with a remoted antenna module, which will have the spare plastic key embeded in it.
Thanks for a most informative post.

Would you happen to have the part number for the harness extender? And would you post some pics if the harness and additional ring antenna?

Thanks
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