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Old 08-14-2007, 09:42 PM   #346
Wallowa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
what design flaw? they've used this in their cars for a long time too. A few antennas have gone bad and ruined a few rides won't result in a recall or a design change. I'm betting the next generation of bikes will have no key, you just keep the "key" (card) within 1 meter of the bike and the bike will start, technology used in cars now and apparently, on the new Concours.
Or to para-phase: You have got to be shitin' me! A few? Inconvienced and ruined rides? Absolutely this is a problem that should not exist, period.

And for a car stuck on the interstate it is perhaps an inconvience..but for a motorcycle touted as an around-the-world touring machine it is totally unacceptable...naw, your comments are tongue-in-cheek...

Ain't no big deal...stuck in BFE...just dial up BMW road service or AAA...oops, no cell service...no, this is not a minor issue...it well could be an issue of survival...many of us ride alone and many miles from food, water and shelter...I can't walk out of everywhere I ride and I have way above average survival training.

BMW should fix this flaw in design...or though I hate it...they should be sued for knowingly producing and selling a defective product...one that could result in injury or death to the rider.

This is not the sky is falling chickin' little stuff...there is a real danger here.
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:12 PM   #347
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Litigation seems to be the american answer to most things, that's why BMW stopped selling Helmets in the US. If you are scared of the technology go get an old airhead, Oh wait got to carry a spare rectifier board, If it's mechanical, then statistically it will break at some point. If you are that worried carry a sat phone. but then that becomes a single point failure, better carry two, plus a locator beacon.
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Old 08-14-2007, 10:14 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
O
BMW should fix this flaw in design...or though I hate it...they should be sued for knowingly producing and selling a defective product...one that could result in injury or death to the rider.
There is nothing defective about the design of the immobilizer. By all reports the bike does NOT stop mid ride when it breaks. It just won't start the next time you hit the starter. Assuming you're not stupid enough to stop your bike and turn off the ignition in a place that is so dangerous you must be able to start the bike and move within seconds or die it is NOT a safety hazard.

Parts break. Always have. Probably always will. Sometimes a broken part will put you in danger (although not in the case of a broken immobilizer). If you can not accept that perhaps you'd better stay in bed (and hope the bed doesn't break). Certainly you shouldn't be riding the dangerous device that is a motorcycle.

// marc
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Old 08-15-2007, 05:51 AM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marchyman
Parts break. Always have. Probably always will. Sometimes a broken part will put you in danger (although not in the case of a broken immobilizer). If you can not accept that perhaps you'd better stay in bed (and hope the bed doesn't break). Certainly you shouldn't be riding the dangerous device that is a motorcycle.

// marc
Well said

I think what some of us resent is having the immobilizer in the first place.. but then again, if the bike is stolen we'd be whining about the lack of any built in security on a high end bike..

Chances are if the antenna hasn't failed in the first few thousand miles, it most likely won't.
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:05 AM   #350
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Dead Horse..Topic That Is..

Quote:
Originally Posted by marchyman
There is nothing defective about the design of the immobilizer. By all reports the bike does NOT stop mid ride when it breaks. It just won't start the next time you hit the starter. Assuming you're not stupid enough to stop your bike and turn off the ignition in a place that is so dangerous you must be able to start the bike and move within seconds or die it is NOT a safety hazard.

Parts break. Always have. Probably always will. Sometimes a broken part will put you in danger (although not in the case of a broken immobilizer). If you can not accept that perhaps you'd better stay in bed (and hope the bed doesn't break). Certainly you shouldn't be riding the dangerous device that is a motorcycle.

// marc

Great logic...I guess you don't spend much time on out-back dirt roads or trails...just let the bike run all night...great solution to a "statistically non-existent problem"..especially for someone stupid enough to leave the pavement..moving within seconds is not the issue, not moving for hours is.

Whatever folks...drink more koolaide...BMW is doing us a favor having this anit-theft key/ignition that leaves riders stranded for bikes that aren't stolen...the king has no cloths..

I am out of here...
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:14 AM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriKielyGSman
I am all for it ......keys are a hassle. Everything should work the same....door on the house ....walking through the check out at the grocery store etc.....one card .....and/or...enter a 4 digit password ..and away you go..no need to pull out the card.

I am still waiting for the day when you just push your cart though the check out without unloading it and scanning every item.

.......
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:21 AM   #352
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I spoke to the service manager at the local shop about this issue on Saturday. They sell a lot of bikes and he says they have had no failures on the GS and probably three on other models. However, he said if he was traveling he would carry a spare.
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:58 AM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf
I spoke to the service manager at the local shop about this issue on Saturday. They sell a lot of bikes and he says they have had no failures on the GS and probably three on other models. However, he said if he was traveling he would carry a spare.
Now that's funny and Sad!
He says there is no problem,but yet at the same time expresses no faith in the product!


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Old 08-15-2007, 11:20 AM   #354
Mike in Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf
I spoke to the service manager at the local shop about this issue on Saturday. They sell a lot of bikes and he says they have had no failures on the GS and probably three on other models. However, he said if he was traveling he would carry a spare.

I had a service manager tell me they had never seen a FD failure, it was internet legend etc. I then reminded him they had replaced the FD on a good friends 1150RT 8 months earlier. He just turned around and walked off.
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Old 09-01-2007, 09:01 PM   #355
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'nother couple a questions....

Forgive me. I got about 10 pages into this thread and had to stop reading. I've got some serious eye issues that affect my ability to read for long periods of time (I should just be out on the bike!).

Has anybody gotten to the notion of why this EWS antenna thing seems to fail on NEWER bikes ONLY? Makes very little sense to me. Do we understand the mode of failure -- what actually goes wrong? You'd think that time, vibration, dust, grime, etc., would only INCREASE the likelihood of failure over time.

I'm not particularly excited about another $155 of insurance, and not just slightly LESS excited about a remote-location showstopper.

Has anybody heard of a replacement antenna failing? I'm trying to figure out if the production piece had a defect that was THEN fixed for replacement parts. If so, maybe I can talk my dealer into a swap (at BMW's expense) on the next scheduled....

Thanks much!
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Old 09-01-2007, 09:06 PM   #356
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Go to the bottom of this page and select the RICKY skin (next to Yo Donate Wisdom), the Ricky skin has larger font.

The EWS ring antenna fails without warning and so far, it's been on newer bikes.. no external factors.
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Old 09-01-2007, 09:12 PM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
Go to the bottom of this page and select the RICKY skin (next to Yo Donate Wisdom), the Ricky skin has larger font.

The EWS ring antenna fails without warning and so far, it's been on newer bikes.. no external factors.
Many thanks, and ... many thanks!

Bigger fonts and high-displacement oilheads. Ahhhh.

Any idea whether they've done (and been open about) any sort of post-mortems on the failed units?? I'd rather fix or replace one that's likely to fail ... now ... and WITH one that's NOT likely to fail ... than to get stuck and have to call upon the generosity of The Pool.
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Old 09-01-2007, 09:41 PM   #358
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How many miles on your bike?

We don't know if there's been any internal changes to the antenna ring or if the supplier of these rings to BMW has been told to revise them, or it's just the luck of the draw, some fail shortly after they are put into service and most don't.
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Old 09-01-2007, 09:44 PM   #359
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Just about 2,700.

I guess I have a broader concern: what % of GS riders are represented on this forum?

We'd have to extrapolate (even with the helpful partcipation of the dealer(s) who post here) just to estimate how often this thing really craps out, and at what mileages ... presuming that BMW won't 'fess up, and I presume they won't.

I did QC in a business for a while. People used to say: what are the odds of the REPLACEMENT widget being bad, too. The funny thing was: exactly the same as the odds that the FIRST widget was bad.

I'd hate to be out $155+, then think I'm good, and then....

I know it's a low % thing, but I'm always partial to fixing the root cause :)
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Old 09-02-2007, 07:58 AM   #360
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The root cause is usually an antenna ring that has gone bad. Keep in mind that this ring is used on all new BMW bikes, the F800xx, all R and K bikes. The failure rate is unknown, but I'd guess it's less than 1%.

In your case with 2700 miles, I'd stay you're still within the probability of an antenna ring failure. If I were to go riding in remote areas, I'd spend $130 and get a spare one, if my bike had low miles. I would also drill out the 1 way screws to facilitate the plug and play aspect of plugging in the replacement ring, which does not have to be mounted, just placed around the key hole, leaving the defective and disconnected one in place.
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