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Old 09-07-2007, 07:44 AM   #451
jpalamar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
I'm still utterly confused by this dynamic:
If you were described as an impediment above, please enlighten me. I'd be grateful.
Without going into all of the rhetoric about failure rates, etc. etc. I wonder if anyone knows the following answer?

Will this work, HAS ANYONE ACTUALLY TRIED or is it a colossal waste of time? I don't want to be the test case for this as with my luck/skill, my bike will be incapacitated!
1. I have a spare antenna ring
2. It appears as if (GS 12 Adv) the 'cover' to the wiring harness of the ring is nothing but 2-10 Torx screws, and with a 'finger' wrench they can easily be removed.
3. Once that cover is removed can the harness be access, unplugged from the ring and plugged into the new ring? Albeit, the new ring will be dangling near the forks, presumably.
4. Is the new ring in close enough proximity to start the bike or is this all an exercise in futility as doing this the key and the ring are too far apart for it to work?

Anyone know this or like many things like this, it's a crapshoot?
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:46 AM   #452
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jpalamar:

I THINK Bobby answers those questions in this post:

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....4&postcount=13

Please correct me if that's not what you were after....
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:51 AM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
jpalamar:

I THINK Bobby answers those questions in this post:

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....4&postcount=13

Please correct me if that's not what you were after....
Exactly what I was looking for, but, without being the 'Doubting Thomas' of the group, was it acutally tried and does it always (usually) work? If that be the case, 155 bucks, (discounted 120 bucks) not a bad workaroud, and one I could live with!
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:55 AM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
I'm still utterly confused by this dynamic:
  • The antenna ring failure affects some small % of owners.
  • Those that it does affect experience a dead bike.
  • We don't seem to have any granular information on exactly what happens when this failure occurs.
  • Some people are actively resisting the idea of anybody here gaining more information ... to the point of (good-natured, I'm assuming) insults and ribbing.
I'm utterly confused.

To Bobby, and others who are in this mode: if YOU don't know, or if YOU don't care ... fine ... but what would those of you who are actually trying to dissuade others from getting more information (or implying/saying that they should stop worrying about it) possibly hope to accomplish by doing so?

I'd like to know why these things are failing, and if it's preventable up front.

Others, it seems, would like to know, too -- doubtless for slightly different reasons than mine.

What's served by diminishing and invalidating their concerns?

What's served in assuming that this is an obsession on their part, rather than an interest?

What's served in assuming that this is the ONLY potential failure point that they're considering?

If you were described as an impediment above, please enlighten me. I'd be grateful.

Read this thread to it's entirety and then you will have seen just about everything there is to see, there's no more info hiding mysteriously and to dig more is like beating a dead horse, even if you're new to the party. It's a preventable issue if you wish to spend the extra coin and have any roadside mechanical ability to make a temporary fix to get you home. BMW is not going to sign on to any forums and give some kind of public acknowledgement or reasoning, so you're left with a few dealers who are active in the forums and will put up with the hype and abuse from time to time on these issues and provide some input. Answers to all of your questions and insinuations are here in this thread thanks to the mods combining all of the various immobilizer threads, read the whole thing and then bash, OK????

As for is it preventable? Yes, never ever ride the bike. However if you choose to ride the bike and I hope you do, you have a less then 2% chance of this failing in my and other dealers experiences. There has been no link to a common denominator on the 2% that have failed, although it does appear that the failures are on newer bikes rather then the older 05 and 06's, perhaps there was a change in vendor, but its all guess work because until it becomes a much more prevalent issue, there will be no public service announcement from BMW. Of the 3 known failures here at our shop in the past 3 years and 400 units of CANBUS bikes, one of those failures happened to my buddy's bike while we were riding the cherahala, gave him my bike and spent the rest of the day waiting for a tow home, shit happens it's fixed and I'm not going to carry a spare antennae in my pocket to ward off the boogie monsters short of a high adventure long distance vacation type trip, then you bet your ass I'll have one.

Worry less
Ride more
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:02 AM   #455
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Guess I'll just go one ... more ... time ... and then done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Atlanta
Read this thread to it's entirety and then you will have seen just about everything there is to see, there's no more info hiding mysteriously and to dig more is like beating a dead horse, even if you're new to the party. It's a preventable issue if you wish to spend the extra coin and have any roadside mechanical ability to make a temporary fix to get you home. BMW is not going to sign on to any forums and give some kind of public acknowledgement or reasoning, so you're left with a few dealers who are active in the forums and will put up with the hype and abuse from time to time on these issues and provide some input. Answers to all of your questions and insinuations are here in this thread thanks to the mods combining all of the various immobilizer threads, read the whole thing and then bash, OK????
I've read the whole thread. Maybe it will help if I take a shot at translating what you wrote: you don't know what's actually causing the failures.

Okay. Thanks, Bobby. I gotcha'.

Quote:
As for is it preventable? Yes, never ever ride the bike.
Again, that helps a great deal. Thanks.

Quote:
However if you choose to ride the bike and I hope you do, you have a less then 2% chance of this failing in my and other dealers experiences. There has been no link to a common denominator on the 2% that have failed, although it does appear that the failures are on newer bikes rather then the older 05 and 06's, perhaps there was a change in vendor, but its all guess work because until it becomes a much more prevalent issue, there will be no public service announcement from BMW
I'll try to translate that, too: again, you don't know what's actually causing the failures.

Gotcha. Thanks.

Quote:
Worry less
Ride more
As for me? I'm still just going to ignore that and hope that somebody ELSE can derive more info on this subject. If they DO, and it's simply of NO interest to you, then please feel free to ignore it.

Thanks much..
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:03 AM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamar
Exactly what I was looking for, but, without being the 'Doubting Thomas' of the group, was it acutally tried and does it always (usually) work? If that be the case, 155 bucks, (discounted 120 bucks) not a bad workaroud, and one I could live with!

Definitely works on a GS, RT, HP2, R12S, F800 havent tried any of the K bikes though.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:07 AM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
I've read the whole thread. Maybe it will help if I take a shot at translating what you wrote: you don't know what's actually causing the failures.

Okay. Thanks, Bobby. I gotcha'.


Again, that helps a great deal. Thanks.


I'll try to translate that, too: again, you don't know what's actually causing the failures.

Gotcha. Thanks.


As for me? I'm still just going to ignore that and hope that somebody ELSE can derive more info on this subject. If they DO, and it's simply of NO interest to you, then please feel free to ignore it.

Thanks much..
Dude relax, it's a very very simple part with only a couple of potential causes other then manufacturing defect(which has been discussed here by Poolside and others) Vibration, heat, some think moisture but I say no, it's sealed others think there is RF interferance potential. No one has done a study other then BMW AG in their development process and they aren't going to be spreading the love on any of their findings if they have any short of it becoming and epidemic which it's far from reaching. This isn't some new witch craft, it's very simplistic in its design and construction. The technology has been used on cars for quite sometime and it's had failures there too.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:10 AM   #458
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Originally Posted by BMW Atlanta
Dude relax,
Dude. I'm really quite relaxed, but -- again -- thank you.

I just don't see the point of chiming in with "I got nothin. Dun' worry so much about it."

I really don't.

Quote:
it's a very very simple part with only a couple of potential causes other then manufacturing defect(which has been discussed here by Poolside and others) Vibration, heat, some think moisture but I say no, it's sealed others think there is RF interferance potential. No one has done a study other then BMW AG in their development process and they aren't going to be spreading the love on any of their findings if they have any short of it becoming and epidemic which it's far from reaching. This isn't some new witch craft, it's very simplistic in its design and construction. The technology has been used on cars for quite sometime and it's had failures there too.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:13 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by BMW Atlanta
Definitely works on a GS, RT, HP2, R12S, F800 havent tried any of the K bikes though.
Thank you very much. A reasonable workaround and 120-150 bucks cheap for peace of mind. BTW, getting to the part in question on the GT is I'm sure a DAY in the shop. It's really inaccessible as you already know.

Thanks!
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:14 AM   #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ylexot
I'm sure BMW knows that there have been problems with the antenna, but they may not know what the cause of the antenna failures is. Do you guys routinely send failed parts back to BMW for inspection/analysis? I could see BMW chalking up a couple as bad luck and not looking into the issue, but there's probably a failure rate threshold where they investigate the cause and either redesign for future models or even do a recall (big $$$$). So then the questions would be what is the threshold and has the antenna issue reached the threshold?

Yes we do send parts back when requested by BMW, we hold onto all warranty parts for 3 months and then the warranty rep scraps what they do not send back for analysis. When the new FD's came out, they were almost all sent back for anaylisis, not sure how hard they are checking into the antennae failures as it has been a very small percentage of failure and just recently seems to be occurring with any regularity. I think folks do not understand the immobilizer and there is way more myth then fact on the issue, so folks experience a failure or hear it's a potential and scurry onto the net to research it only feeding the hysteria of it. Not sure what the threshold is, but BMW is very proactive in quietly doing quality control behind the big curtain.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:15 AM   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Atlanta
others think there is RF interferance potential.
That would be an interesting cause...too close to a cell tower

Of course, something like that is possible depending on frequencies/power output.

Just going on the anecdotal evidence that they all seem to fail within the first couple thousand miles (that is the case, right?), I'd lean towards manufacturing or installation flaws/tolerances.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:15 AM   #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamar
Exactly what I was looking for, but, without being the 'Doubting Thomas' of the group, was it acutally tried and does it always (usually) work? If that be the case, 155 bucks, (discounted 120 bucks) not a bad workaroud, and one I could live with!
Yes, and yes. Not on this thread, but on another it was done successfully!

The key was to predrill out the original security bolts and use regular bolts, IIRC.

Jim
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:16 AM   #463
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Originally Posted by NBeener
Dude. I'm really quite relaxed, but -- again -- thank you.

I just don't see the point of chiming in with "I got nothin. Dun' worry so much about it."

I really don't.
I see these bikes everyday, who are you expecting to answer? I doubt no shop has seen more then 10 failures themselves, so how can they deduct a cause when they are not engineers by trade? Sorry if there is not some profound answer, but I think I have more to offer here then most in the experience category.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:20 AM   #464
NBeener
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Atlanta
I see these bikes everyday, who are you expecting to answer? I doubt no shop has seen more then 10 failures themselves, so how can they deduct a cause when they are not engineers by trade? Sorry if there is not some profound answer, but I think I have more to offer here then most in the experience category.
Wow, Bobby. I'm not sure which is more bizarre: that you keep going or that I keep answering you.

Either way: it's simple: YOU don't have more info. That's okay. It's really okay.

I, OTOH, just e-mailed BMW. Maybe they do.

Maybe somebody else will dissect a failed ring. Maybe somebody else has a brother-in-law whose a EE that works on antennas like this and can give us some additional info.

So ... really, really: I'm pretty relaxed, while at the same time, curious.

What's happening to YOUR blood pressure trying to convince the couple of people who want a little more info that they should drop it?

... and what will YOU gain? I'm genuinely curious.....
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:23 AM   #465
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Originally Posted by NBeener
Wow, Bobby. I'm not sure which is more bizarre: that you keep going or that I keep answering you.

Either way: it's simple: YOU don't have more info. That's okay. It's really okay.

I, OTOH, just e-mailed BMW. Maybe they do.

Maybe somebody else will dissect a failed ring. Maybe somebody else has a brother-in-law whose a EE that works on antennas like this and can give us some additional info.

So ... really, really: I'm pretty relaxed, while at the same time, curious.

What's happening to YOUR blood pressure trying to convince the couple of people who want a little more info that they should drop it?

... and what will YOU gain? I'm genuinely curious.....
So then you're not genuinely concerned about the immobilizer antennae but worried about my blood pressure, you're so kind

We once had an EE try to wire his own stereo on an RT,...............we ended up replacing the whole wiring harness when he was done attempting. So you may want to put some hard qualifications of who exactly you'll believe.
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