ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

View Results:
0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-21-2008, 07:31 AM   #1186
ylexot
Super Genius
 
ylexot's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: St Inigoes, MD
Oddometer: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
At least in the US it is a federal law that all motor vehicles have an antitheft device. This is BMWs response.
Thank you nanny state!
ylexot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 07:37 AM   #1187
jpalamar
Beastly Adventurer
 
jpalamar's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL (Northeast FL, USA)
Oddometer: 3,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk
I have spent a morning reading every post in this thread. Here are the results:
  • 1126 posts so far
  • 46 failures reported. Or, if you like: 96% of the posts do not report of a failure. This is not to say that the sigal/noise ratio is 4%, but....
  • 18 of the 46 who report an failed ring has odometer of less than 20 (39%)
  • 7 of the 46 has odometer of 1 (15%). The post to this thread was their only contribution to advrider.com. Thank you.
  • 3 of the 46 (6%) reports failures that happends to "friends"
  • 43 of the 46 have less than 10.000 miles (93%)
If would stop raining I could do something useful.

[TaSK]

(if you are really, really interested, I have a spreadsheet with the info)
Yes, am interested, but confirms my suspicions that there's a lot of NOISE re: this subject. But, until it happens to you it is indeed just data. Owning 3 (soon to be 4) CAN-bus models with an immobilizer ring as of now the only long distance (wish I could) bike I would consider is the Adventure. For but one reason, I know I can get to the antenna ring as the security screws removed/replaced when the ring failed at around 1500 miles if I remember, AND, I can actually fit my fat hands in to do the replacement with my SPARE.
__________________
2007 R1200GS Adv DMC Hack
2014 R1200WCGS
jpalamar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 09:33 AM   #1188
jdpower
Studly Adventurer
 
jdpower's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC USA
Oddometer: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
At least in the US it is a federal law that all motor vehicles have an antitheft device. This is BMWs response.

That said, BMW is not the only on with this system, it is on Ducati and Hondas as well, and will likely be on lots of others soon.

In cars it has been available, or standard since the early 90's.

Jim
I've got an ST1300 (04) without an antenna ring thingie and don't know of a system like this on any later models of the ST or goldwings. Do you know which Honda model this antenna ring thing is on? I have read of some same issues with the new Concours 14 kipass system stranding some people (and not at all happy with it either). I hope you are wrong about an antenna ring being on many other bikes soon since it has already played a part in narrowing my future Sport Touring choices unless or until it is resolved for BMW and Kawasaki.

JDP
jdpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 10:01 AM   #1189
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,285
Thanks..Explanation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk
I have spent a morning reading every post in this thread. Here are the results:
  • 1126 posts so far
  • 46 failures reported. Or, if you like: 96% of the posts do not report of a failure. This is not to say that the sigal/noise ratio is 4%, but....
  • 18 of the 46 who report an failed ring has odometer of less than 20 (39%)
  • 7 of the 46 has odometer of 1 (15%). The post to this thread was their only contribution to advrider.com. Thank you.
  • 3 of the 46 (6%) reports failures that happends to "friends"
  • 43 of the 46 have less than 10.000 miles (93%)
If would stop raining I could do something useful.
[TaSK]


(if you are really, really interested, I have a spreadsheet with the info)
What does the above "odometer of less than 20" mean? I missed it.

While only 4% reported failures..the other 96% posts may be repeats and non-BMW folks...not that I would expect the % to be above 10% but who really knows...

I would indeed be interested in mileage at time of failure, multi-failures on same bike and year/model of bike...still looking for a pattern!
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!" After 2014 BOM my bike is forthwith the "GS McGee"!
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 10:04 AM   #1190
ylexot
Super Genius
 
ylexot's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: St Inigoes, MD
Oddometer: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
What does the above "odometer of less than 20" mean? I missed it.
Took me a while to figure it out too. He's talking about the member's number of posts on the forum. Look under a person's user name. It has an "odometer" reading.

...actually, it's an "oddometer" reading.
ylexot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 11:04 AM   #1191
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,285
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ylexot
Took me a while to figure it out too. He's talking about the member's number of posts on the forum. Look under a person's user name. It has an "odometer" reading.

...actually, it's an "oddometer" reading.
Thanks! My old brain did not process that..I see it now but don't know the significance..

I would really like to see a break down of mileage at time of failure, year/model and a tally of two failures on same bike..

Or, being really bold...what is the absolutely latest part number for the absolutely latest antenna?

Ok, Ok, going WAY out on a limb...what have any of you BMW dealers [owners will never hear from BMW] heard from BMW about the EWS problem?
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!" After 2014 BOM my bike is forthwith the "GS McGee"!
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 11:09 AM   #1192
jpalamar
Beastly Adventurer
 
jpalamar's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL (Northeast FL, USA)
Oddometer: 3,080
If transmitted by wire disregrd this post...

But, is the signal from the antenna ring transmitted via wire or radio frequeny (RF) emission? If RF, anyone know the frequency (RF Frequency meter?).

IF TRANSMITTED BY WIRE DISREGARD THIS POST.
__________________
2007 R1200GS Adv DMC Hack
2014 R1200WCGS
jpalamar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 11:18 AM   #1193
motoreiter
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Moscow, Russia
Oddometer: 1,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
While only 4% reported failures..the other 96% posts may be repeats and non-BMW folks...not that I would expect the % to be above 10% but who really knows...
Tagesk, thanks for the valuable data.

While I'm no statistician, this 4% number seems completely irrelevant--I would want to compare the 46 failures in this thread to the number of bikes on the road, with a couple of other assumptions, something like this:

A= percentage of EWS failures in this thread that occurred in the US

B= number of R1200GS sold in US

C= percentage of riders of US GS12s that would report a failure in this thread
__________________________
US Failure rate = (46*A) / (B*C)
__________________________

If I plug in some wild-ass guesses for the inputs, I get this:

(46 * 90%) / (40,000 * 80%) = 0.13%

I think we could actually come up with fairly accurate figures for A and B (the above numbers are just GUESSES), the only really difficult number to determine would be C.
motoreiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 11:18 AM   #1194
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 50,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdpower
I've got an ST1300 (04) without an antenna ring thingie and don't know of a system like this on any later models of the ST or goldwings. Do you know which Honda model this antenna ring thing is on? I have read of some same issues with the new Concours 14 kipass system stranding some people (and not at all happy with it either). I hope you are wrong about an antenna ring being on many other bikes soon since it has already played a part in narrowing my future Sport Touring choices unless or until it is resolved for BMW and Kawasaki.

JDP
The antitheft device is not mandated as a key device, it can be any number of antitheft devices. I do not know what the 07-8 ST 1300 uses for it. For that matter, I am not sure when this law took effect, or if it is set for future effect.

Jim
JimVonBaden is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 11:19 AM   #1195
Ken H.
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Oddometer: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamar
But, is the signal from the antenna ring transmitted via wire or radio frequeny (RF) emission? If RF, anyone know the frequency (RF Frequency meter?).

IF TRANSMITTED BY WIRE DISREGARD THIS POST.
It is transmitted to the BMS-K module by wire. The EWS ring has to coils, one to energize the key (by magnetic field) the other to send the key signal to the module.

This is the same technology used by proximity building access cards for years BTW. And 100s of cages with so called 'smart keys.'
Ken H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 11:22 AM   #1196
jpalamar
Beastly Adventurer
 
jpalamar's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL (Northeast FL, USA)
Oddometer: 3,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H.
It is transmitted to the BMS-K module by wire. The EWS ring has to coils, one to energize the key (by magnetic field) the other to send the key signal to the module.

This is the same technology used by proximity building access cards for years BTW. And 100s of cages with so called 'smart keys.'
Thanks Ken. I suspected it wasn't RF but then curiosity got the best of me as I have been wrong.
__________________
2007 R1200GS Adv DMC Hack
2014 R1200WCGS
jpalamar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 11:33 AM   #1197
xlcr
Stop being a dick, dick.
 
xlcr's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 4,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ylexot
Thank you nanny state!
So BMW boasts of their high-tech anti-theft system. But when the customers start complaining about the reliability of said system, just blame George Bush?
xlcr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 12:18 PM   #1198
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,285
Can't Do...

Quote:
Originally Posted by motoreiter
Tagesk, thanks for the valuable data.

While I'm no statistician, this 4% number seems completely irrelevant--I would want to compare the 46 failures in this thread to the number of bikes on the road, with a couple of other assumptions, something like this:

A= percentage of EWS failures in this thread that occurred in the US

B= number of R1200GS sold in US

C= percentage of riders of US GS12s that would report a failure in this thread
__________________________
US Failure rate = (46*A) / (B*C)
__________________________

If I plug in some wild-ass guesses for the inputs, I get this:

(46 * 90%) / (40,000 * 80%) = 0.13%

I think we could actually come up with fairly accurate figures for A and B (the above numbers are just GUESSES), the only really difficult number to determine would be C.
Nobody has these figures...expect BMW...and they are not saying one word!

As for the "4% doesn't matter but by the way it is 0.13%"...Hmmmm. Plus only 46 "failures" vs 40,000 "non-failures or total owners"?...what is posted and what isn't posted will never be comparable; or as my buddy sez "you can't know what you don't know"...only as WAGs...

Again my question: What has BMW said to the BMW dealerships about the EWS issue? Any dealers out there willing to say?
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!" After 2014 BOM my bike is forthwith the "GS McGee"!
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 12:52 PM   #1199
YetiGS
No Talent Ass Clown
 
YetiGS's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 7,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
Nobody has these figures...expect BMW...and they are not saying one word!

As for the "4% doesn't matter but by the way it is 0.13%"...Hmmmm. Plus only 46 "failures" vs 40,000 "non-failures or total owners"?...what is posted and what isn't posted will never be comparable; or as my buddy sez "you can't know what you don't know"...only as WAGs...

Again my question: What has BMW said to the BMW dealerships about the EWS issue? Any dealers out there willing to say?
If you go back a few pages (not going to do it for ya) Bobby from BMW of Atlanta informed us that BMWNA hasn't said anything about it.

Still waiting?
__________________
-Scott-
Semper Fi
'04 BMW R1150GSA, '04 KTM 625 SXC
"You had better bring an extra magazine. Yeti's amped up on weird shit are hard to bring down." Lonestar2112
YetiGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 12:53 PM   #1200
spagthorpe
Beastly Adventurer
 
spagthorpe's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 14,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
At least in the US it is a federal law that all motor vehicles have an antitheft device. This is BMWs response.

Wouldn't a key be considered an anti-theft device?

My Husqvarna TE is sold as a DOT, 50-state legal motorcycle and doesn't even have an ignition key. It does have a steering column lock, but they we are back to just using a key as an anti-theft device.

My 2006 Toyota truck has no such fancy device other than a simple non-RF based key either.

There is nothing that requires this RFID (or whatever BS they are using) sensor.
spagthorpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014