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Old 04-21-2008, 12:00 PM   #1201
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcr
So BMW boasts of their high-tech anti-theft system. But when the customers start complaining about the reliability of said system, just blame George Bush?


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Old 04-21-2008, 12:09 PM   #1202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcr
So BMW boasts of their high-tech anti-theft system. But when the customers start complaining about the reliability of said system, just blame George Bush?
1) I must have missed where BMW boasted of their high-tech anti-theft system.
2) I didn't mention George Bush. Did he have something to do with the mandate?

I believe in market forces. If BMW wants to make an anti-theft system, they have been allowed to since day one. They can then either reap the rewards of providing something people want or take their lumps if nobody cares or if it doesn't work. If however, the government says, "thou shalt" and BMW follows orders, shouldn't the government bear some portion of the responsibility?
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Old 04-21-2008, 12:17 PM   #1203
motoreiter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
As for the "4% doesn't matter but by the way it is 0.13%"...Hmmmm. Plus only 46 "failures" vs 40,000 "non-failures or total owners"?...what is posted and what isn't posted will never be comparable; or as my buddy sez "you can't know what you don't know"...only as WAGs...
First, the 4% number is just completely irrelevant--it is the number of posts in this thread that include reports of specific EWS failures. The only thing it indicates is that only 4% of the posts in this thread include hard data (this post not included, obviously!). The main thing is to prevent people from getting the idea that there is a 4% failure rate.

Second, I didn't say the number was 0.13%, but I think if you could make halfway accurate estimates for the variables (rather than guess as I did) you could come up with a failure rate that might not be off by an order of magnitude. For instance, I would think that US sales figures for the GS would be available somewhere, in some trade publication or something. In the last few pages on this thread I've seen 11% and 4% thrown around, but those numbers seem very very high (and as described above, the 4% number is just irrelevant to the issue of failure rates).

Third, while we'll never have perfect data, I think it would be interesting to make some estimates and come up with a range of failure possible failure rates. Call it an educated guess or whatever, but I think it beats PURE speculation.

Fourth, you're right that the biggest question is how many people would post about this issue? My guess is that most people who had recently spent $20k on a bike, and the bike wouldn't start and had "EWS"flashing on the screen, would probably do some internet research. Google "BMW R1200GS EWS" and this thread is the second result. Who knows for sure, but I'd be surprised if at least half the people in the US with these failures don't post here.
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Old 04-21-2008, 01:22 PM   #1204
xlcr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ylexot
If however, the government says, "thou shalt" and BMW follows orders, shouldn't the government bear some portion of the responsibility?
Please post links to the federal laws that mandate this system.
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Old 04-21-2008, 01:30 PM   #1205
tagesk
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Cogniglio in white wine

Quote:
Originally Posted by motoreiter
First, the 4% number is just completely irrelevant--it is the number of posts in this thread that include reports of specific EWS failures. The only thing it indicates is that only 4% of the posts in this thread include hard data (this post not included, obviously!). The main thing is to prevent people from getting the idea that there is a 4% failure rate.
Sorry for the confusion.
I have never, ever meant to indicate that the ring antenna has 4% failure rate. Didn't say so, didn't mean to say so, and if it is true it would be a super-human coinsidence.

It is, however, of great value for me as a reader to know that a 1.100 post thread does not at all indicate 1.100 failures. When I started I expected to find hundreds of failures reported. That it is "only" 46 is interesting. Also that quite a few of those are not from inmates here, but someone who registrerd with the sole purpose of claiming a failure.
My profession is computer science, and I enjoy to have documented (yet another) case of what we can call Internet Magnifier (IM).

The IM has two properties: If you are interested in X, however small and marginal X is, with the IM you can find enough fellow travellers to enrich your life. Second, if you have a problem X, however small, IM will make it into a 1.100 post thread (to make up an non-existing example!)

Notice, with great care, that I didn't say ring antenna failure is less than a disaster if it hits you, I didn't say it is unimportant, and I didn't day I find it apalling that BMW hasn't solved it yet. I just say that it might be as big as a 1.100 post thread might indicate on face value. This thread is simply not full of reports of failures.

Oh well.

I am sorry if you worked yourself up and destroyed an otherwise fine efternoon, I am sorry if my summary of the posts provoked you in any way. And I am sorry if you want this thread to stand as a proof of horribly bad engineering that has left millions of riders stranded. I don't think there is proof of that here.

While all of you were writing I have cooked a 'coniglio' (rabbit?) in white wine (Vernaccia di San Gimignano) with some 'sedano' (?) and carrot. To this I am serving a very light and fruity Chianti. Sorry again if the summary provoked you, but now I am off to enjoy dinner with Capa della Famiglia.

I'll summarize again in another 1.000 posts

[TaSK]

(you can, if you want, read this post as a statement about my interest in the EWS failure as a phenonomen Per Se rather as a technical issue)
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Old 04-21-2008, 01:38 PM   #1206
motoreiter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk
Sorry for the confusion.
I have never, ever meant to indicate that the ring antenna has 4% failure rate. Didn't say so, didn't mean to say so, and if it is true it would be a super-human coinsidence.
You didn't say so, I agree; just trying to see how we can use your useful info. The EWS problems don't seem very common, but even so they are too common, if you ask me.

Have a great dinner!
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Old 04-21-2008, 01:41 PM   #1207
NBeener
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"sedano" = celery, in English.

Buon appetito!
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Old 04-21-2008, 02:00 PM   #1208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcr
So BMW boasts of their high-tech anti-theft system. But when the customers start complaining about the reliability of said system, just blame George Bush?

That's ninny state - europ is the nanny state
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:14 PM   #1209
tagesk
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Thumb One thing leads to another....

The caniglio was excellent, and now one good thing might lead to another....but I must take two minutes to add one more thing:

My 4% signal/noise ratio is highy unfair!
It fails to point out that a lot (and I really mean a lot!) of useful information can be found in this thread. I have copied a fair amount into the GSpot FAQ (which, obviously, is proof-carrying code). But I was surprised to only find 46 failures (of which, again, 7 weren't from "inmates").

So in addition to being sorry for provoked my fellow travellers unnecessary, I am sorry if you have contributed with your technical skill to shed light on this problem, only to find me calling it noise.

Sigh. next year (when we reach 2.000 posts in this thread) I'll be more careful about how I present the summary.

Below are the data I found. You are welcome to read the (more than) 1.100 posts to verify the numbers yourself. Some didn't post their km (miles) as it happened, and a few were inconsistent. Only two reported more than one failure. And I am sure someone will dig out the post where it is claimed that 17 failures has occured in Singapore, and demand it to be added to the reported 46; you are welcome :-)

Now I'm off to pursue other pleasures!

[TaSK]


Username miles Oddometer Comment
roo56 267 1
gsdonovan 320 145
tailbone 2500 46
redbull addict 7100 663
adamr 1400 32
adrian_8 210 "a buddy"
bobfv1 22000 18.000
mtwillyman 359
petrol igniter 1000 21
BriKielGSman 11000 404 "Happened to Larry"
NYC_GS 2500 203
cemeyer5162 1
torisadvrider 1400
nbeener 2700 950
blueridger 160 148
johnbaker 1620
elgringo 5287 56
caycek5 80
hmr71 4900 318
mikshaf 5200 8
sennasixty8 136 "happened 3 times!"
hankgs 297
shedrat 2200 1
pup66 4425 1
blue_sweeper 21
jersey_guy 5500 1
gsmoto31 4000 17
Jimbo_gs 2000 1
bikewider 6100 35
ind_gs 600 11
nandewar 3
the bwana 15 6
pidgeonfarmboy 666 10
warden 200 74 "happened 2 times"
ricochet 102
honus 2 "after fall"
gonz 500 693
kristen77042 8 " a friend"
tkp_cgy 4900 73
blueute 165 1
javas 171 17
tyrannosaurus_mex 2500 19
klrobins 16096 67
fr8dog 966 1
whorepedo 223
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Old 04-21-2008, 03:40 PM   #1210
dom02
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Mine went on Saturday 4/19. 3505 on the odometer, 100 miles from home, 3 hour wait for a $440 tow. That's what I call technology. I'd have a 990 KTM if it wasn't such a bitch to maintain.
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Old 04-21-2008, 04:18 PM   #1211
NBeener
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagesk
nbeener 2700 950


I've never had the EWS problem, and -- if bored -- will try to figure out what I posted that made you think I had.

[EDIT: I found it. I wrote

Quote:
Sorry it happened. Guess I'm glad I didn't know about THIS one BEFORE I left for last week's 2,000 miler ... with 700 as the starting mileage.
But ... nah ... I haven't had that failure. I'm just in the camp of those looking to solve the puzzle :-)]

NBeener screwed with this post 04-21-2008 at 04:24 PM
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Old 04-21-2008, 04:26 PM   #1212
YetiGS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener


I've never had the EWS problem, and -- if bored -- will try to figure out what I posted that made you think I had.

[EDIT: I found it. I wrote


But ... nah ... I haven't had that failure. I'm just in the camp of those looking to solve the puzzle :-)]
Everyone just assumes you have problems. Not sure why.








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Old 04-21-2008, 07:09 PM   #1213
SocalRob
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I just noticed that the very first post in this thread was March 18, 2007.

GS1200's were being purchased in Sept. of 2005.

I understand that the EWS error is often seen at very low mileages.

Where were all the failures for 18 months???

I raise these points becaus, taken together, they seem to indicate to me that either BMW had better antennae rings in the early bikes, or, more likely, IMO, the failure rate is really very, very low, and it took until tens of thousands of bikes were on the road until the problem of 40 some failures reported here raised its ugly head.

Dammit, will I or won't I fork out good money for a spare ring??????????
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:47 PM   #1214
Wallowa
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Here We Go Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by SocalRob
I just noticed that the very first post in this thread was March 18, 2007.

GS1200's were being purchased in Sept. of 2005.

I understand that the EWS error is often seen at very low mileages.

Where were all the failures for 18 months???

I raise these points becaus, taken together, they seem to indicate to me that either BMW had better antennae rings in the early bikes, or, more likely, IMO, the failure rate is really very, very low, and it took until tens of thousands of bikes were on the road until the problem of 40 some failures reported here raised its ugly head.

Dammit, will I or won't I fork out good money for a spare ring??????????
Gee, only 40 failures? Where did that definitive number come from? Repeat after me.."there is no problem, it is a very, very small problem, all things mechanical fail"....blah, blah, blah..

Back to: Why the hell are bikes getting stranded with "EWS"? And, Why the hell doesn't BMW fix it!
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:51 PM   #1215
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My MegaMoto failed yesterday while on a ride. It started long enough for me to get home (after about 200 tries) then did the same thing at home. Later it started. WTF???
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