ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

View Results:
0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-21-2008, 07:52 PM   #1216
spagthorpe
Beastly Adventurer
 
spagthorpe's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: San Diego
Oddometer: 14,352
Since Ducati does seem to have something similar on their bikes, I wonder how many owners are getting stranded. This is fuzzy from memory, but it seemed like on my gf's Monster, you had a special red key that could be used to put the computer into a special mode so that it would be re-programmed to take the regular ignition key. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I thought that was the deal.
spagthorpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 08:41 PM   #1217
NBeener
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 1,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by SocalRob
I just noticed that the very first post in this thread was March 18, 2007.

GS1200's were being purchased in Sept. of 2005.

I understand that the EWS error is often seen at very low mileages.

Where were all the failures for 18 months???

I raise these points becaus, taken together, they seem to indicate to me that either BMW had better antennae rings in the early bikes, or, more likely, IMO, the failure rate is really very, very low, and it took until tens of thousands of bikes were on the road until the problem of 40 some failures reported here raised its ugly head.

Dammit, will I or won't I fork out good money for a spare ring??????????
You raise good points, but ... let me throw another wrench into the works

Tag's study and your comments could suggest another issue: not everybody is willing to be the first to raise the subject of a problem that they had, or even knew that it was anything to be concerned about.

I wonder how many people, particularly in the early stages, or those whose "oddometer" (at the time) read 1, simply Googled "r1200gs AND EWS warning" (or similar. You get the idea).

In the early days (before this thread, or before it gained inertia), Google may have returned very little or no actual information.

This issue may have existed -- in similar or dissimilar numbers -- BEFORE this thread existed. The thread, however, achieved prominence in Google searches, allowing it to gather a bit of momentum, and -- perhaps -- leading people to sign up and air their grievance about DBS (Dead Beemer Syndrome).

Given time, and subsequent postings by each of these people, we'd lose track of whether or not EWS was their first ... unless it was and is their only (some stayed in the community. Others ... well ... fuck the others )

Does that make sense?

As always, we all put up good theories ... but ... none of us knows a damned thing

So ... anecdotally ... we have this (correct me if I'm wrong):
  • some people have had the failure twice -- once on the OEM ring and once on the replacement ring, but ...
  • AFAIK ... NOBODY has had the problem NOT be solved by a replacement or invoking their spare.
Is that right?

If so, then the cheap insurance* IS STILL found in buying and carrying the spare (and learning how to install it in the field) ... in whatever BMW's latest part number is.

Does that sound right to everybody?

I have ab-so-lute-ly no illusions that BMWNA is going to assign an engineer to come on AdvRider and sort this through, using us as sounding boards for their bug-fix process, BUT ... it would be good if -- realizing that we are NOT (largely!) the enemy, and that we ARE (largely) all hoping for the same end -- they would involve "us," somehow, in the process.

I think if they let Poolside loose with THEIR toys, and all the keys to the kingdom, he'd beat this thing in about an hour



----

*Actually, MY way IS cheaper: hold out in hopes that YetiGS will buy one, and then head to WARPED with him
NBeener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 08:44 PM   #1218
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 47,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
...I think if they let Poolside loose with THEIR toys, and all the keys to the kingdom, he'd beat this thing in about an hour




Jim

PS Remember what you ride, a BMW (Bitch Moan Whine). If they own a BMW they will not hold back!
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 09:15 PM   #1219
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,659

Run out of hand lotion Leo? You seem upset.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 09:19 PM   #1220
xlcr
Stop being a dick, dick.
 
xlcr's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 4,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden


Jim

PS Remember what you ride, a BMW (Bitch Moan Whine). If they own a BMW they will not hold back!
Isn't that why the newsleter is titled "BMW MOAN"?

Here's something possibly relevent: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.08/carkey_pr.html


Pinch My Ride


Ignition keys equipped with signal-emitting chips were supposed to put car thieves out of business. No such luck – but try telling that to your insurance company.
By Brad Stone
xlcr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 09:43 PM   #1221
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,659

Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcr
Here's something possibly relevent: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.08/carkey_pr.html
Pinch My Ride
Ignition keys equipped with signal-emitting chips were supposed to put car thieves out of business. No such luck – but try telling that to your insurance company.
By Brad Stone
Excerpt:
"Ivan Blackman, the manager of the Vehicle Information and Identification Program for the NICB [National Insurance Crime Bureau], says that insiders are gradually getting over their dogmatic belief in the invincibility of transponder systems. “Companies are slowly realizing that the cars can be stolen,” Blackman says."
I went to see Montes at his custom motor-cycle shop about a half hour south of San Francisco and asked him how someone could have stolen my car. He just laughed. “If I want to take your Civic, I’ll do it in 10 seconds,” he said. Then he confirmed Hyser’s story. The mythical Honda override exists: It’s a series of presses and pulls of the emergency brake. Each car, it seems, has a unique override code, which correlates to the VIN.

“You want to get yours?” Montes asked.

Sure, I said.

He called an acquaintance who worked at a Honda dealership. I listened, awestruck, as Montes fed the guy a barely credible story about a cousin who had dropped his keys down a sewer. The dealership employee was at home but evidently could access the Honda database online. I gave Honky’s VIN to Montes, who passed it along to his friend. We soon had the prescribed sequence of pulls, which I scribbled down in my notebook.

I walked outside and approached [my car]. The door lock would have been easy – a thief would have used a jiggle key, and a stranded motorist would have had a locksmith cut a fresh one. I just wrapped the grip of my key in tinfoil to jam the transponder. The key still fit, but it no longer started the car.

Then I grabbed the emergency brake handle between the front seats and performed the specific series of pumps, interspersed with rotations of the ignition between the On and Start positions. After my second attempt, [my car's] hybrid engine awoke with its customary whisper.

I had just jacked my own car.


Nice link xlcr.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2008, 11:22 PM   #1222
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,659

Here are some federal regulation references for Immobilizer type devices:

Repost from 400 posts ago: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=736


Part 541: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...2.3.17&idno=49
Part 543: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...2.3.19&idno=49


Code of Federal Regulations (CFR)
Title 49: Transportation
PART 541—FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE THEFT PREVENTION STANDARD
PART 543—EXEMPTION FROM VEHICLE THEFT PREVENTION STANDARD

§ 543.6 Petition: Specific content requirements.

(a)(3)(ii) Attract attention to the efforts of an unauthorized person to enter or move a vehicle by means other than a key,

(a)(3)(iii) Prevent defeating or circumventing the device by an unauthorized person attempting to enter a vehicle by means other than a key,

(a)(3)(iv) Prevent the operation of a vehicle which an unauthorized person has entered using means other than a key, and . . .

- - - - - -

Read between the lines above, and look for the words "authorized person". The immobilizer system can be 'switched off' by an authorized person. The vehicle owner is an authorized person, as is a dealer tech.

The factory race bikes ran EWS to maintain the premise that the immobilizer cannot be switched off.

The premise doesn't require anyone at the race team or dealer level to know about it. The techs readily believe most any myth and superstition that they are told. And highly defend their beliefs.



A 2007 Federal Register announcement of a recent petition for exemption from BMW:
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2007/06-9959.htm


The Petition for Exemption that a company must file, pursuant to CFR 19 Part 543, is a public record.


__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation

Poolside screwed with this post 04-22-2008 at 12:08 PM
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 05:38 AM   #1223
motoreiter
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Moscow, Russia
Oddometer: 1,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
So ... anecdotally ... we have this (correct me if I'm wrong):
  • some people have had the failure twice -- once on the OEM ring and once on the replacement ring, but ...
  • AFAIK ... NOBODY has had the problem NOT be solved by a replacement or invoking their spare.
Is that right?
Hasn't the problem in a few instances been a bad key, rather than a bad ring? At least some people have had success if they switch keys, although maybe it was just the ring acting up. Frankly not sure how a key could "go bad" unless it got mangled somehow.
motoreiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 09:01 AM   #1224
xlcr
Stop being a dick, dick.
 
xlcr's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 4,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
The Petition for Exemption that a company must file, pursuant to CFR 19 Part 543, is a public record.

If they meet 541, they don't need the exemption. It was the manufacturer's decision to seek the exemption.

How does the BMW " Attract attention to the efforts of an unauthorized person to enter or move a vehicle by means other than a key"? This was clearly meant to mean flashing lights and blaring horns or sirens, not a choreographed dancing alphabet spelling out "SCREW YOU" on the dash. Does the exemption require just "one of the above"?


Here's the link from the federal site for BMW's X3 petition. Your link was too long for my browser.
xlcr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 11:12 AM   #1225
tpresten
RideUmAll
 
tpresten's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Cumming, GA
Oddometer: 170
I think you guys are all just trying to scare people away from buying the best riding motorcycle in the world for long distance and adventure travel. I bought my 2008 a few weeks ago and have already done 300+ miles with only one Final Drive being needed so far. EWS is not even a safety issue unless your motorcycle will not start in the dark in a bad section of town. Focus on the bigger picture- Splines, Final Drives, and centerstand bolts shearing off. Drink the Kool-Aid and ride my friends.

This is my 3rd GS by the way. First one was a 2003 R1150GSA that I put 36,000 miles on and only needed a head gasket, front brake caliper, a few tail lights, and some fuel fittings that spewed gas all over my transmission and turned it yellow. Second one was a 2005 R1200GS and I drove it 34,600 miles and all it needed was a Final Drive, transmission seals, slave cylinder, and centerstand pivot bolts. I drove it to Alaska, Mexico, and everything in between and the EWS never reared its ugly message.

I will be driving this 2008 ADV to Prudhoe in 2009, God willing, and if I keep reading this thread between now and then I will carry the spare antenna. I like the idea of buying a community one that can be next-day-aired to anyone stranded.
tpresten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2008, 12:24 PM   #1226
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,659

Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcr
If they meet 541, they don't need the exemption. It was the manufacturer's decision to seek the exemption.
That's true, I thought that was obvious.

How does the BMW " Attract attention to the efforts of an unauthorized person to enter or move a vehicle by means other than a key"? This was clearly meant to mean flashing lights and blaring horns or sirens... Does the exemption require just "one of the above"?
The way I read the full text of section 543 all three (ii, iii, iv) are required.

Here's the link from the federal site for BMW's X3 petition. Your link was too long for my browser.
Thanks for the new link, the old link is broken.

__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2008, 03:34 AM   #1227
klrobins
Gnarly Adventurer
 
klrobins's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Stoney Creek, ON
Oddometer: 136
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by klrobins
its official. I now believe my bike was built on a Friday afternoon. Last year it was the fuel sending module which left me stranded in new Hampshire. Now on this beautiful afternoon (which I took off specifically for a ride) I only got as far as the gas station. Called my dealer and he said "just take it home and monitor it. That was at noon. Its 2 and I still can't start it. Talking to the dealership and they won't even look at it for two weeks. I'm not a happy camper.
Got an email yesterday that my bike is fixed!!!

Apparently they replaced the antenna ring, no big surprise there. The dealership said they stock two or three of these parts on site because of the "frequency" at which they see this failure... thats their words not mine.

Anyway, hopefully that is the last I'll see of that problem.

K
__________________
Kristi from Canada
klrobins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2008, 04:37 AM   #1228
jpalamar
Beastly Adventurer
 
jpalamar's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL (Northeast FL, USA)
Oddometer: 3,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by klrobins
The dealership said they stock two or three of these parts on site because of the "frequency" at which they see this failure... thats their words not mine.
I purchased my ring about a year ago/March 2007 in anticipation of a 4000 mile trip on my K12GT, concerned that should I have had the failure, well, at least I wouldn't have to 'wait for parts'. BTW, trip came and went, no failure. At that time the dealer WAS NOT stocking these rings as failures were only 2-3 (their words). Since then, I had the failure on my '07 ADV with about 1500 miles (the failure was in late January 2008 I believe, after a few minutes bike started). I took the bike in for service and the ring was replaced along with removing the security screws, for a quick and easy in the field fix, should one occur.

The main point of this reply is that BMW Daytona does indeed NOW STOCK THESE RINGS! And, it appears from the posts that most dealerships are stocking these parts, which while not any definitive statistical data point, it does imply that failures are much more than a rare occasion.

BTW, I would feel comfortable doing another 4000 mile+ trip with a BMW, any model. At least from my [jaded/limited] perspective the bike(s) is/are unequivocally the finest available.
__________________
2007 R1200GS Adv DMC Hack
2014 R1200WCGS
2014 R90T
jpalamar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2008, 05:07 AM   #1229
Duane1969
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Little Rock, AR USA
Oddometer: 144
I am taking a trip the end of next month (May) to Nova Scotia and Just to be on the safe side, I ordered and just rec. my extra / spare ring for insurance.

I looked in the FAQ section and saw a picture of one temp. installed (zip tied) next to the failed one on the bike. Evidently, a temp. fix out on the trail to get home. But I was wondering, is there an illustration of a "how to" on the replacement of this part.

From looking at it, there appears to be 2 small screw that remove a protective cover over the ring and then it looks like you unplug it and it just pops out with a screwdriver or something. Is this correct??? I would just want to be prepared to do the swap if need be.

My bike is an 08' GSA.

Thanks,

Duane
Duane1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2008, 06:51 AM   #1230
buduski
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
Oddometer: 129
It seems to me that with so many dealerships now reportedly stocking replacement antennas, I can't really see the need to buy one unless you plan on being out in the extreme sticks! I have about 4500 miles on my 07 GSA with no problems so far. Maybe I'm living in a fantasy world, but I just don't worry about it.
buduski is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014