ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

View Results:
0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-29-2008, 07:21 AM   #1291
NBeener
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 1,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by IND GS
Ok, I dont know what the record is but I've been hit with the EWS THREE times !! lucky for me it happened at home before a weekend ride. Since I have done the work before, I could swap in the new EWS ring under 1/2 hour. So now I have 3 worthless EWS rings including the original once that came with the bike. (Can you believe I have 4 spares !! bought 2 from Singapore and 2 from Chicago BMW in the US). So far the failed ones were the parts out of Singapore and now am using the one from the US.

My mechanic is trying to work around the EWS. Hopefully he will come up with a solution soon or I will probably need to stock up again on antenna's. I love this bike to death but this is gettting to be a bit too much. I have a 07 GS with about 1K miles on it.
I've readily admitted to NOT knowing shit from Shinola, and that my curiosity on this issue is just that: curiosity, BUT ...

put THIS story together with the stuff posted by Poolside, and I start thinking ... "Pssssssst. Maybe it's NOT the ring???"

Poolside: I meant to ask you whether /you/ drew any 'conclusions' from that last post of yours ... about how the codes are generated and recognized. To me, that looks like another couple of major possible failure points.

It may simply be coincidence that the bikes start after the rings are replaced.

Maybe.

NBeener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 07:26 AM   #1292
jpalamar
Beastly Adventurer
 
jpalamar's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL (Northeast FL, USA)
Oddometer: 3,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
I've readily admitted to NOT knowing shit from Shinola, and that my curiosity on this issue is just that: curiosity, BUT ...

put THIS story together with the stuff posted by Poolside, and I start thinking ... "Pssssssst. Maybe it's NOT the ring???"

Poolside: I meant to ask you whether /you/ drew any 'conclusions' from that last post of yours ... about how the codes are generated and recognized. To me, that looks like another couple of major possible failure points.

It may simply be coincidence that the bikes start after the rings are replaced.

Maybe.

I have maintained, of course in an unofficial capacity that it might be something else, but the illogical logic is that BMW engineers are: 1. Not stupid 2. Not incompetent 3. They wish to solve this problem. Take that to the final conclusion and one can somewhat deduce...no one knows what's causing it OR it would have been fixed by now!
__________________
2007 R1200GS Adv DMC Hack
2014 R1200WCGS
2014 R90T
jpalamar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 07:45 AM   #1293
motoreiter
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Moscow, Russia
Oddometer: 1,137
Heh, I just took a rare trip to the UKGSer forum, and noticed that of 25 unstickied threads on the first page, 5 of them dealt with EWS issues. Maybe they should create their own megathread?
motoreiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 07:59 AM   #1294
NBeener
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 1,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamar
I have maintained, of course in an unofficial capacity that it might be something else, but the illogical logic is that BMW engineers are: 1. Not stupid 2. Not incompetent 3. They wish to solve this problem. Take that to the final conclusion and one can somewhat deduce...no one knows what's causing it OR it would have been fixed by now!
Can't argue with that, but ... it makes one wonder: IF they had determined that it was the ring, then one might HOPE they analyzed the failed rings and found [wait for it] an actual problem that supported that theory.

If they didn't ... but, rather were poking around in the dark ... maybe they're not as smart as we think ... OR ... their desire NOT to elevate the profile of this thing is hampering their efforts at resolving it.

Some random code generator that's tied to the same algorithms as the key (like many companies issue to employees for off-site log-in to their servers) seems a lot more likely (to me) to glitch every 100,000th (or whatever) time than the passive antenna ring.

I'm not saying this should be simple, but I'm starting to think that their unwillingness to tackle this thing in a stark, honest manner may be hindering their ability to fix it in a timely fashion.

F'rinstance: what if they took the BIKE back from half a dozen people with EWS failures and flew a couple engineers out to evaluate the applicable systems from stem to stern, using all their code readers, logic analyzers, and other widgets to try to find the faults.

[Do we have ANY information that they've actually done this ... even from owners within, say, 100 miles of their US offices?]

I may just ping BMWNA ... for shits and giggles ... to see if they have anything new to add....
NBeener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 08:11 AM   #1295
jpalamar
Beastly Adventurer
 
jpalamar's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL (Northeast FL, USA)
Oddometer: 3,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
Can't argue with that, but ... it makes one wonder: IF they had determined that it was the ring, then one might HOPE they analyzed the failed rings and found [wait for it] an actual problem that supported that theory.

If they didn't ... but, rather were poking around in the dark ... maybe they're not as smart as we think ... OR ... their desire NOT to elevate the profile of this thing is hampering their efforts at resolving it.

Some random code generator that's tied to the same algorithms as the key (like many companies issue to employees for off-site log-in to their servers) seems a lot more likely (to me) to glitch every 100,000th (or whatever) time than the passive antenna ring.

I'm not saying this should be simple, but I'm starting to think that their unwillingness to tackle this thing in a stark, honest manner may be hindering their ability to fix it in a timely fashion.

F'rinstance: what if they took the BIKE back from half a dozen people with EWS failures and flew a couple engineers out to evaluate the applicable systems from stem to stern, using all their code readers, logic analyzers, and other widgets to try to find the faults.

[Do we have ANY information that they've actually done this ... even from owners within, say, 100 miles of their US offices?]

I may just ping BMWNA ... for shits and giggles ... to see if they have anything new to add....
But then again (I mentioned this somewhere in the thread), it's such a pissant issue relative to total numbers of bikes sold that replacing it a lot easier.

Around WW I (Great War) time we were losing large numbers of people to amoebic dysentery. American medicine was stymied trying to find the cure. People were dying of dehydration as a result of severe diarrhea. Medicos were withholding water to abate the diarrhea. The medical solution was to forget the cause (contaminated water with one-celled amoebas) but treat the sympton which was dehydration. Hydrate the sick, and guess what, they all got well.

Not a one for one but I think perhaps the problem is so miniscule relative to total bikes sold/affected, that BMW may just be treating the symption; that is, slap in a new ring!
__________________
2007 R1200GS Adv DMC Hack
2014 R1200WCGS
2014 R90T
jpalamar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 09:29 AM   #1296
xlcr
Stop being a dick, dick.
 
xlcr's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 4,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by IND GS
. . . Can you believe I have 4 spares !! . . .
You can never have too many spares around . . .

xlcr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 09:54 AM   #1297
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,082
Good Luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
I may just ping BMWNA ... for shits and giggles ... to see if they have anything new to add....
Please let us know if you actually get through to BMWNA and don't get the stock answer to ALL inquires: "Contact your local BMW Dealer"..

My local dealer a couple of weeks ago said that the 'EWS' issue was just a weird fluke on a couple of bikes and had been fixed by BMW...I don't expect rocket scientists but I do expect competent BMW sales and service folks..

I agree with those that stated the impetus to fix this problem is not $$$$ urgent enough for BMW to focus their attention on it...and I honestly don't have faith in their overly inflated and hyped engineering prowess. How can you really trust a company that will not tell you about a problem...no if they will not "look me in the eye" they don't earn my trust.

The one owner has three 'EWS' failures? Hmmm..since new antenna at least temporarily fixed it the antenna seems to be part of the issue...but just my take, something else is confusing or frying the antenna and dropping into the 'EWS'..

Sorry for all the Blah, Blah, Blah....I fully know it is just 'pissing into the wind'.
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 09:58 AM   #1298
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 48,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
...

Sorry for all the Blah, Blah, Blah....I fully know it is just 'pissing into the wind'.
Yeah, but it makes you feel all warm, at least until the breeze cools you off!

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 10:01 AM   #1299
motoreiter
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Moscow, Russia
Oddometer: 1,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by NBeener
Some random code generator that's tied to the same algorithms as the key (like many companies issue to employees for off-site log-in to their servers) seems a lot more likely (to me) to glitch every 100,000th (or whatever) time than the passive antenna ring.
But then why does replacing the antenna ring seem to fix it (at least temporarily) 100% of the time?? While it seems that while some people have been able to simply wait out the problem (ie, the bike started after several hours w/o replacing ring, etc.)--which would seem to indicate that the antenna ring might not be the issue--this has not worked for many others.

Over on UKGSer, some have speculated that the problem is caused by moisture, or by some kind of electronic emissions at gas stations...but everyone seems to be just guessing.
motoreiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 10:12 AM   #1300
NBeener
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Oddometer: 1,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoreiter
But then why does replacing the antenna ring seem to fix it (at least temporarily) 100% of the time??


The short answer is: maybe IT didn't. Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation.

Maybe that's the only thing that changed ... as far as we know at this point. But maybe it's not.

Even under the scenario that there's an overly tight wire/cable tie ... (I really do NOT know the procedure for swapping out rings) ... one cut of one wire (to replace the ring) /could/ temporarily relieve enough strain to close a temporarily open circuit.

"Could."

As you say, though, some waited it out ... successfully. Heat causes expansion which CAN cause 'opens' in a circuit. Cooling, then, could cause the contraction, closing the circuit.

If it were so simple, and the ring were the problem, it'd be difficult to figure out why there are several (apparent) versions of the ring issued since this all started.

It's just an epoxied ball of wire, no?
NBeener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 10:25 AM   #1301
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,082
Damn That IS Funny!

Quote:
Originally Posted by motoreiter
But then why does replacing the antenna ring seem to fix it (at least temporarily) 100% of the time?? While it seems that while some people have been able to simply wait out the problem (ie, the bike started after several hours w/o replacing ring, etc.)--which would seem to indicate that the antenna ring might not be the issue--this has not worked for many others.

Over on UKGSer, some have speculated that the problem is caused by moisture, or by some kind of electronic emissions at gas stations...but everyone seems to be just guessing.
No problem just wear a tin foil pyramid hat when gassing up and vex those pesky electronic emissions! Unless they are emitted by 'Black Helicopters'!
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 10:33 AM   #1302
klrobins
Gnarly Adventurer
 
klrobins's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Stoney Creek, ON
Oddometer: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by dometop
Kristi, were the last three digits (136) followed by -01. I have seen the 136 number listed both ways on this forum.
Nope... the part number was 61-35-7-696-463 thats it.
__________________
Kristi from Canada
klrobins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 10:41 AM   #1303
Just_Sean
herewegoagain
 
Just_Sean's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: NOT Brooklyn
Oddometer: 14,504
Man, I just read like, 5 or 6 posts in this thread - it's almost as bad as Dr ABS' brake failure thread
Just_Sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 11:02 AM   #1304
SocalRob
Beastly Adventurer
 
SocalRob's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Los Angeles @ base of Angeles Crest Hwy
Oddometer: 12,513
OK, reading the last 10 or so posts has been entertaining.

Maybe there is a possibility that this is a software induced hardware problem. The key is not recognized for whatever reason, and the security software glitches & freezes out the current ring. I like that theory about the numbers generator glitching every once in a while. When it does glitch maybe it causes further security software glitches.

It would be interesting to see if unplugging the existing ring from the harness, maybe futzing with trying to start the bike with no ring, then plugging the existing (apparently defective ring) back in, and see if the bike starts. Has anybody taken a "defective" ring and tried it in another bike?

I guess what I'm thinking is maybe the very act of unplugging and plugging back in the ring is somehow performing a reset?

I like this thread as the EWS problem, while a pain in the ass, IMO, is not as bad as the FD, which you can't really carry a spare for. I mean we are all bitching about having to carry what may be as cheap as an $85 part like its the end of the world on a $20K bike.

I have yet to read about a EWS problem on a Ducati board. Those crazy Italians and their unreliable electronics
__________________
Rob

'07 White (the coolest color) GSA rider
'13 Husky Strada & '14 KTM 690 Enduro
SocalRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 11:10 AM   #1305
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,082
Ah But! No "Prince of Darkness"!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SocalRob
OK, reading the last 10 or so posts has been entertaining.

Maybe there is a possibility that this is a software induced hardware problem. The key is not recognized for whatever reason, and the security software glitches & freezes out the current ring. I like that theory about the numbers generator glitching every once in a while. When it does glitch maybe it causes further security software glitches.

It would be interesting to see if unplugging the existing ring from the harness, maybe futzing with trying to start the bike with no ring, then plugging the existing (apparently defective ring) back in, and see if the bike starts. Has anybody taken a "defective" ring and tried it in another bike?

I guess what I'm thinking is maybe the very act of unplugging and plugging back in the ring is somehow performing a reset?

I like this thread as the EWS problem, while a pain in the ass, IMO, is not as bad as the FD, which you can't really carry a spare for. I mean we are all bitching about having to carry what may be as cheap as an $85 part like its the end of the world on a $20K bike.

I have yet to read about a EWS problem on a Ducati board. Those crazy Italians and their unreliable electronics
Yes but the Italians do not have 'Lucasi' electronics! Or, was the 'Lucarad'?
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014