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Old 04-29-2008, 12:09 PM   #1306
DaveT
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Ring antenna part availablility as of today:
====================
Discontinued & no longer in stock @ BMW USA:

61357717136
61357696463
65217671272

======================
Discontinued & quantity one remaining in stock @ BMW USA:

61357714207
=======================
Current latest ring antenna:

78 currently in stock @ BMW USA:

61357705247 !!!

MSRP = $82.52


=====================

Written explanation from BMW about the nature of the several part numbers in the chain, about any qualitative differences among them, about the next (perhaps imminent) new part number to be created, about any one of the part numbers being defective or better or worse than any other, etc etc:

None at all.

See note below.

=======================

(Note: With BMW and other OEM part systems, there is such a thing as a "forward-only" supercession, where "The new part can be used in place of the old part, but the old part cannot be used in place of the new part". Among the five antenna numbers created to date, depending on individual bike VIN, there are a few such supercessions. So, it is not absolutely true that any one of the five numbers can be used on any bike. BMW has not in print instructed dealers to discontinue use of any of the four "older" numbers; dealers are welcome (whilst keeping any F-O supercessions in mind) to sell and install them until depleted. Rendering a globally-relevant, detailed and meaningful explanation of the limitations of such supercessions in this case is not feasible. Rather, one can ask which part number or numbers can and should currently be used on any one VIN.

============================
Dealer solution:

Consult dealer-only 'ETK' catalog for proper part number per individual VIN; sell what is on the shelf unless contraindicated by forward-only supercession, or order appropriately from BMW and sell whatever they ship.
==========================

Consult your local dealer per your VIN for current proper antenna.
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DaveT screwed with this post 04-29-2008 at 12:34 PM
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:10 PM   #1307
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT
Ring antenna part availablility as of today:
====================
Discontinued & no longer in stock @ BMW USA:

61357717136
61357696463
65217671272

======================
Discontinued & one remaining in stock @ BMW USA:

61357714207
=======================
Current latest ring antenna:

78 currently in stock @ BMW USA:

61357705247 !!!

MSRP = $???????
Thanks Dave, but you forgot the amount.

Jim
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:18 PM   #1308
Wallowa
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Ditto Thanks Dave..

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Thanks Dave, but you forgot the amount.

Jim
Jim...what did I miss..he has the amount $82.52..

Dave...Have you asked BMW what has changed in these antenna? And why they are going through these changes?
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Old 04-29-2008, 02:30 PM   #1309
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Some EWS info from BMW


From a 1200GS Technical Training manual.

Immobilizer code data structure.
The codes used during the handshake are generated from an Immobilizer Rolling Code table assigned to the VIN at the time of manufacturing. The BMS-K and corresponding ignition keys are encoded with this unique data making them an electronically mated pair for one particular motorcycle. The code table provides the codes for each key and a source for BMS-K to check the generated code for each key. Of the three [transponder] keys supplied with a new motorcycle, each one is uniquely identified (key #, ie: 1, 2, or 3). Each key additionally then has a unique immobilizer code.

During the key on sequence, the BMS-K first identifies the key sending the code data and then confirms the transmitted immobilizer code for that key. There is the possibility of a maximum of ten keys per system possible. However they must be ordered specifically by the VIN, and activated with the GT1.


Comes with three keys. How many people received their three keys?

Someone posted a while back about Honda immobilizers, and I think Harley Davidson and Ducati too, can be switched off with some code combination of switch presses, of the turn signals or brake lever for instance. Each bike having a different code. The manual 'switch off immobilizer' code based on the vehicle VIN is a fit, and also complies with the DOT immobilizer regulations of passive arming.

- - - - - -


Hey, speaking of EWS antennas, go out and try to start your bike with the antenna unplugged.

John (Jpalamar) was kind enough to send me a 1200 ECU and transponder key.

From looking at the circuitry in the ECU board, the pair of communication leads to the EWS antenna seem like they might be a CANbus interface. Separate though, from the CANbus network on the rest of the bike.

If the comm leads to the EWS antenna are CANbus, then if the EWS is unplugged, the pair of leads may need a 120ohm terminating resistor.

Maybe the bike will start without the EWS antenna. But it might need a terminating resistor on the data leads.

It's a thought anyway I mean, there are security screws on the EWS, and I think those are separate from the security screws on the ignition switch. Maybe the ECU will let the bike start without the EWS antenna circuitry. No EWS antenna (but with a terminating resistor in it's stead) is different than a defective EWS.

So maybe unplugging the EWS and adding a termination resistor will do the trick.


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Old 04-29-2008, 02:34 PM   #1310
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Just dropped my bike (aka. $20 large paper weight) @ the dealer, for EWS fault. He sez's it is the first one he has seen....Hmmm? Will see what comes of this mess.
Do we play the parts numbers boxed or straight in the lotto....

-No way to delay that trouble comin' everyday!-
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Old 04-29-2008, 08:29 PM   #1311
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
Jim...what did I miss..he has the amount $82.52..

Dave...Have you asked BMW what has changed in these antenna? And why they are going through these changes?
Check it out, he edited it after my post, presumably to add additional information.

Jim
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:49 PM   #1312
xlcr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Check it out, he edited it after my post, presumably to add additional information.

Jim
He beat the deadline and his price addition didn't get tagged as an edit. (Not surprising since you jumped on it as soon as it was submitted.) He later came back and added the text after the price. That was tagged as an edit @ 12:34PDT.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:00 PM   #1313
YetiGS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
From a 1200GS Technical Training manual.


Immobilizer code data structure.

The codes used during the handshake are generated from an Immobilizer Rolling Code table assigned to the VIN at the time of manufacturing. The BMS-K and corresponding ignition keys are encoded with this unique data making them an electronically mated pair for one particular motorcycle. The code table provides the codes for each key and a source for BMS-K to check the generated code for each key. Of the three [transponder] keys supplied with a new motorcycle, each one is uniquely identified (key #, ie: 1, 2, or 3). Each key additionally then has a unique immobilizer code.

During the key on sequence, the BMS-K first identifies the key sending the code data and then confirms the transmitted immobilizer code for that key. There is the possibility of a maximum of ten keys per system possible. However they must be ordered specifically by the VIN, and activated with the GT1.
Comes with three keys. How many people received their three keys?

Someone posted a while back about Honda immobilizers, and I think Harley Davidson and Ducati too, can be switched off with some code combination of switch presses, of the turn signals or brake lever for instance. Each bike having a different code. The manual 'switch off immobilizer' code based on the vehicle VIN is a fit, and also complies with the DOT immobilizer regulations of passive arming.

- - - - - -


Hey, speaking of EWS antennas, go out and try to start your bike with the antenna unplugged.

John (Jpalamar) was kind enough to send me a 1200 ECU and transponder key.

From looking at the circuitry in the ECU board, the pair of communication leads to the EWS antenna seem like they might be a CANbus interface. Separate though, from the CANbus network on the rest of the bike.

If the comm leads to the EWS antenna are CANbus, then if the EWS is unplugged, the pair of leads may need a 120ohm terminating resistor.

Maybe the bike will start without the EWS antenna. But it might need a terminating resistor on the data leads.

It's a thought anyway I mean, there are security screws on the EWS, and I think those are separate from the security screws on the ignition switch. Maybe the ECU will let the bike start without the EWS antenna circuitry. No EWS antenna (but with a terminating resistor in it's stead) is different than a defective EWS.

So maybe unplugging the EWS and adding a termination resistor will do the trick.

Where's that popcorn eatin' smilie when I need him . . .??

Even though I have a ring sitting in my tool tray, I'd love to bypass the whole damn thing.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:32 PM   #1314
DaveT
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Dave...

Have you asked BMW what has changed in these antenna, a
nd have you asked why they are going through these changes??

No, to date I have not. Besides idle curiosity, or perhaps worry about my own EWS-equipped bike, I have no compelling need to know. BMW USA HQ happens to staff a phone-equipped English-speaking dealer-only technical desk. We try to limit our contacts with them to compelling needs, and consider it bad form to ask the tech desk to pursue such questions when compelling need is absent. Please see my earlier post where I explain in brief the simple reality of what happens when I need a ring antenna for a particular bike: I access a current dealer-only catalog, determine a current part number and pull the trigger. When new information deserving of illumination becomes known to me, I will try to pass it on. BMW has come out with five generations of ring antenna; in the next few years there may be as many more. At some point one would expect a dealer operating under real-world time scarcity to fall back on the basic process described above: simply look it up and sell it.
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DaveT screwed with this post 04-29-2008 at 10:45 PM
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Old 04-30-2008, 04:41 AM   #1315
jpalamar
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Question I'm So Confused. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT
Dave...

At some point one would expect a dealer operating under real-world time scarcity to fall back on the basic process described above: simply look it up and sell it.
Owning three (3) current model CAN-bus bikes, only the GS Adv ('07) has experienced a failure. The other two, NO.

Last fall, in anticipation of a long trip I purchase a spare ring. I have the ring and it's one of the discontinued models listed i.e. ending in 463.

You post(s) implied VIN specificity, but it's the same ring for all of my bikes. Also, does it make sense for me to talk to my dealer's parts manager and exchange out for the latest? Or, is my assertion that they are all failing, so what's the sense?
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Old 04-30-2008, 09:42 AM   #1316
Wallowa
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Bluhduh Thanks For Candor..But Damn Dave!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT
Dave...

Have you asked BMW what has changed in these antenna, and have you asked why they are going through these changes??

No, to date I have not. Besides idle curiosity, or perhaps worry about my own EWS-equipped bike, I have no compelling need to know. BMW USA HQ happens to staff a phone-equipped English-speaking dealer-only technical desk. We try to limit our contacts with them to compelling needs, and consider it bad form to ask the tech desk to pursue such questions when compelling need is absent. Please see my earlier post where I explain in brief the simple reality of what happens when I need a ring antenna for a particular bike: I access a current dealer-only catalog, determine a current part number and pull the trigger. When new information deserving of illumination becomes known to me, I will try to pass it on. BMW has come out with five generations of ring antenna; in the next few years there may be as many more. At some point one would expect a dealer operating under real-world time scarcity to fall back on the basic process described above: simply look it up and sell it.
Dave,

I do thank you for a candid response and to my knowledge your are the only BMW dealer that has spoken up...but damn Dave!

No compelling reason for you or any dealer to pick up the phone and bother BMW with a question! Gawd forbid!

Give me a break here....just selling an antenna to a customer after running the VIN and never, never asking why the hell they are failing and why there are seemingly endless "new" versions?

Compelling reason Dave: Service and responsibility to the customers that bought the bikes. Forget the "bad form" and deliver substance.

Are BMW dealers afraid of BMW pulling their dealerships if they question problems with the bike? Dealers seem to just pass the buck by saying; "BMW has not informed us" and BMW says "See your dealer"...Pure Catch-22.

No compelling reason to make an inquire...what a crock!
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:28 AM   #1317
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
Dave,

I do thank you for a candid response and to my knowledge your are the only BMW dealer that has spoken up...but damn Dave!

No compelling reason for you or any dealer to pick up the phone and bother BMW with a question! Gawd forbid!

Give me a break here....just selling an antenna to a customer after running the VIN and never, never asking why the hell they are failing and why there are seemingly endless "new" versions?

Compelling reason Dave: Service and responsibility to the customers that bought the bikes. Forget the "bad form" and deliver substance.

Are BMW dealers afraid of BMW pulling their dealerships if they question problems with the bike? Dealers seem to just pass the buck by saying; "BMW has not informed us" and BMW says "See your dealer"...Pure Catch-22.

No compelling reason to make an inquire...what a crock!
Just goes to show that many dealers really don't care unless it affects their bottom line.

Jim
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:25 AM   #1318
AntonLargiader
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Wow, guys. Shoot the messenger. IMO Dave contributes some pretty good info here.

I wouldn't consider fueling this threadfest to be a compelling reason for a dealership to ask their BMWNA contact to run around looking for answers to fairly vague questions. If Irv Seaver's keeping their customers happy, great. Why not talk to your own dealer and convince him that he has a reason to ask?
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:44 AM   #1319
xlcr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Just goes to show that many dealers really don't care unless it affects their bottom line.

Jim
You don't go badgering your primary supplier on the phone, do you?

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Old 04-30-2008, 11:57 AM   #1320
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcr
You don't go badgering your primary supplier on the phone, do you?

Not sure I get your point? If the dealers were customer advocates, they would not worry about asking pointed questions to reassure their customers.

BMW should not have an issue with a dealer asking these questions, and certainly they should not try to discourage good customer relations.

Point is, many dealers simply do not care about the customers, except what they can get out of them.

That said, I know a couple dealers who would go to bat for the customer, and who would stand up and ask the hard questions of BMW, and have.

Jim
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