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Old 04-30-2008, 01:28 PM   #1321
xlcr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
That said, I know a couple dealers who would go to bat for the customer, and who would stand up and ask the hard questions of BMW, and have.

So go nag them about the situation and then get back to us.

Just be sure to warn them that you'll be using their and their employer's names.
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:32 PM   #1322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlcr
So go nag them about the situation and then get back to us.

Just be sure to warn them that you'll be using their and their employer's names.



Jim

JimVonBaden screwed with this post 04-30-2008 at 08:38 PM
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Old 04-30-2008, 03:36 PM   #1323
Wallowa
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Bluhduh Whoa! Back the Truck Up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonLargiader
Wow, guys. Shoot the messenger. IMO Dave contributes some pretty good info here.

I wouldn't consider fueling this threadfest to be a compelling reason for a dealership to ask their BMWNA contact to run around looking for answers to fairly vague questions. If Irv Seaver's keeping their customers happy, great. Why not talk to your own dealer and convince him that he has a reason to ask?
First, I know Jim can handle himself..but I am the one who asked why dealers don't ask BMW for answers to problems that arise on our bikes...Dave may contribute valuable insights but this is not one of them. Or perhaps it really is one. He delivered his message and the substance of it seems like a kiss-off of his responsibility as a BMW dealer to his customers. He is not carrying anyone elses water, it was Dave's message. Dave at best is a willing accomplice by remaining silent and not contacting BMW but BMW is the silent power behind the curtain.

Again that no "compelling reason" to ask BMW about a defect in our bikes?

As Dave said beyond "Besides idle curiosity, or perhaps worry about my own EWS-equipped bike,..." he had no compelling reason to call BMW or ask the questions. Does this seemingly endless thread seem like inquries that are motivated by 'idle curiosity' and are made for 'no compelling reason'?

A bike immobilized by a faulty ignition system is a defective ignition/anti-theft system and a very compelling issue. No splitting hairs about the meaning of "is" or what constitutes a defect; this is a defective product.

I am not asking for an answer from BMW to a "vague question"; but rather very direct and succinct questions:

#1 What is causing the "EWS" immobilization of our bikes?

#2 How can we owners prevent this immobilization?

#3 Why the different iterations [different part numbers] of antenna used to replace antenna on bikes immobilized with the "EWS"?

#4 What changes have been made in the successive stream of replacement antenna?

Why the hell are the dealers afraid of BMW? Why not ask the questions of BMW? As a dealer I would be embarassed to say I didn't want to "bother" BMW with such mundane, trivial questions as why are my customers getting stranded and how can I prevent it.

Lastly, being dismissive of problems arising on our bikes destroys the credibility of the dealers and BMW. Getting the stonewall or non-response silence is not the fulfilling the contract we made with BMW and the dealer when we paid for our bikes; you know the one where they pledge excellence in customer support and service. We paid for a product and product support we are not getting; simpling ordering up another antenna after we get stuck somewhere with a dead bike is damage control not correcting a defect nor acting in the best interests of your customers.
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Old 04-30-2008, 03:53 PM   #1324
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From a 1200GS Technical Training manual.

Immobilizer code data structure.
The codes used during the handshake are generated from an Immobilizer Rolling Code table assigned to the VIN at the time of manufacturing. The BMS-K and corresponding ignition keys are encoded with this unique data making them an electronically mated pair for one particular motorcycle. The code table provides the codes for each key and a source for BMS-K to check the generated code for each key. Of the three [transponder] keys supplied with a new motorcycle, each one is uniquely identified (key #, ie: 1, 2, or 3). Each key additionally then has a unique immobilizer code.

During the key on sequence, the BMS-K first identifies the key sending the code data and then confirms the transmitted immobilizer code for that key. There is the possibility of a maximum of ten keys per system possible. However they must be ordered specifically by the VIN, and activated with the GT1.


Comes with three keys. How many people received their three keys?

Someone posted this a while back: Honda immobilizers, and I think Harley Davidson and Ducati too, can be manually switched off with some code combination of switch presses, of the turn signals or brake lever for instance. Each bike having a different code based on the VIN.

Switching off the immobilizer manually with a code based on the vehicle VIN also complies with the DOT immobilizer regulations of passive arming.

The factory race bikes run the EWS antenna part for PR, and part to avoid having to take the time to perform the manual switch off when the motor stalls during a race.


- - - - - -


Hay BMW, you know your Siemens ECU with immobilizer can be switched off manually. There is a process to do that in the ECU software, and you are not letting owners know about it.

You will have that process changed in a future ECU software upgrade. Then you will tell us you just added the 'new feature'.

I see you, you ain't hiding. I've always seen you.



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Old 04-30-2008, 04:15 PM   #1325
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2 Ring Failures the Same Day: Trailer time at Honda

Stopped by the Honda dealership to pick up a can of their spray cleaner/wax on the less than 700 mile (just completed 600 mile check) 2008 R1200RT about 2 months old. Yup, got the dreaded EWS.

But, being prepared, I took out my spare antenna ring, #10 torx driver, removed the housing and unplugged the harness, plugging it into the spare. I've got it licked, at least I can ride home. Neatly tied it off as far from the original ring to minimize interference from original.

[

And, here's the bike (jinxed by Honda?) for all to see. But, luckily, no one knew what I was doing, and could care less.



Go to start the bike: EWS failure with the spare ring that ends in 463. Woe is me. Call up a friend, load it on the trailer, away I go! Sadly, I have a long trip planned for late May/early June...what bike to take. So far, the '07 GT has no ring failure but it also has low mileage (1800). Maybe gonna go back to the LT for LD riding! Folks, this is now serious shit!!! when the spare also fails!!!
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Old 04-30-2008, 04:50 PM   #1326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamar
Stopped by the Honda dealership to pick up a can of their spray cleaner/wax on the less than 700 mile (just completed 600 mile check) 2008 R1200RT about 2 months old. Yup, got the dreaded EWS.

But, being prepared, I took out my spare antenna ring, #10 torx driver, removed the housing and unplugged the harness, plugging it into the spare. I've got it licked, at least I can ride home. Neatly tied it off as far from the original ring to minimize interference from original.

[

And, here's the bike (jinxed by Honda?) for all to see. But, luckily, no one knew what I was doing, and could care less.



Go to start the bike: EWS failure with the spare ring that ends in 463. Woe is me. Call up a friend, load it on the trailer, away I go! Sadly, I have a long trip planned for late May/early June...what bike to take. So far, the '07 GT has no ring failure but it also has low mileage (1800). Maybe gonna go back to the LT for LD riding! Folks, this is now serious shit!!! when the spare also fails!!!
I've got to suspect that the second ring did not fail, that there is another problem. Not statistically likely the second ring failed. Have you tried other options like switching keys, disconnecting the battery, anything else?
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:12 PM   #1327
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John,

REALLY fekking sorry, Man.

This is the (phonetically) guy I spoke to at BMWNA:

Marik Balwas
201-263-8233

Feel like calling him about now??

I agree with SoCal Rob, and this is what I've been saying all along: we don't really have any reason to be certain that this failure IS an antenna ring failure. Now we have yet another reason to think maybe it isn't.

Sorry again. Sucks big time
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:13 PM   #1328
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John,
go out to your GS and unplug the stock EWS and plug in the spare antenna on it and see if it works or not.. and report back.. it it doesn't work, it should be covered under the parts warranty and they should just swap it for you.

Your problem is you have too many new bikes with low mileages!!
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:20 PM   #1329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Boy
John,
go out to your GS and unplug the stock EWS and plug in the spare antenna on it and see if it works or not.. and report back.. it it doesn't work, it should be covered under the parts warranty and they should just swap it for you.

Your problem is you have too many new bikes with low mileages!!
I also thought that statistically this just could not happen. I immediately put the bike on the 'Tender' to ensure battery topped off. It was. When I was broken down, did all of the change 3 keys trick. Nope that didn't do it. Since this all took over an hour, the prescribed, 'wait 1/2 hour and it will likely start.'. Nope

And yes Rick, I just swapped out the 2nd defective ring on the ADV and it failed on the Adventure also. Remember, this is a 463 discontinued ring. There's no doubt now it is the ring.
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:23 PM   #1330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamar
And yes Rick, I just swapped out the 2nd defective ring on the ADV and it failed on the Adventure also. Remember, this is a 463 discontinued ring. There's no doubt now it is the ring.
See if the bike will start without the antenna, John. It might need a termination resistor in place of the antenna circuitry, but it's worth a shot.


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Old 04-30-2008, 05:24 PM   #1331
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Wicked

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamar
I also thought that statistically this just could not happen. I immediately put the bike on the 'Tender' to ensure battery topped off. It was. When I was broken down, did all of the change 3 keys trick. Nope that didn't do it. Since this all took over an hour, the prescribed, 'wait 1/2 hour and it will likely start.'. Nope

And yes Rick, I just swapped out the 2nd defective ring on the ADV and it failed on the Adventure also. Remember, this is a 463 discontinued ring. There's no doubt now it is the ring.
BMW Daytona has sent another ring, I will have it tomorrow. Of course, no charge. I've been planning a 2week go out West ride with a bud and now just don't know which bike (with low mileage Rick) to take. Maybe have to get back on the LT that I had for a few years.
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:25 PM   #1332
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Perhaps Too Far Away

John,

As my old memory serves me the technique that might work is to plug in the spare "new" antenna, invert it over the old antenna-key way and then put your key in and try it..

I also understand that once you start it the antenna is NA...and can be unplugged and stowed..

Give it a shot...good luck!
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:27 PM   #1333
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Maybe you can let me borrow one of your bikes this summer.. I'll fly down, pick it up, ride to Wyoming for the MOA rally and ride back, after I do a tour of Colorado and Arizona... I should have slapped on another 10,000 km.. for you..

Sheesh, I'd better test my spare ring even though my bike has close to 20K miles..
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Old 04-30-2008, 05:29 PM   #1334
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Someone send me a DOA antenna. Now please.


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Old 04-30-2008, 05:30 PM   #1335
jpalamar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa
John,

As my old memory serves me the technique that might work is to plug in the spare "new" antenna, invert it over the old antenna-key way and then put your key in and try it..

I also understand that once you start it the antenna is NA...and can be unplugged and stowed..

Give it a shot...good luck!
Jim/Poolside, will try tomorrow to start without ring connected. Phil, the dealer wanted me to try what you suggested. Bike all cinched down in a covered trailer and can't get to it and don't feel like rolling it off tonight. When I get the new ring and install it tomorrow I will try that.

Frankly, am a bit bummed out on the whole thing. It's easy to look at the issue from 10,000 feet, but when my bubble burst hooking up the spare and no joy, well, imagine being in BFE and all of this happened? Not good! Am disappointed in BMW.
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