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Old 04-05-2013, 04:45 PM   #7276
RFVC600R
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Location: SAND LAND
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well it turns out my ignition coil was good. I was testing it wrong the first time. My pick-up coil is reading 398 ohms I just had the crankcase cover off two or three days before the bike died and I already have to buy another gasket. joy! Is it hard to change the pulse generator??
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:04 PM   #7277
cam14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crobox View Post
I've been thinking about this comment since I read it about a week ago. I am just now grasping the fundamentals of carburetion and jetting, but the role of the exhaust is frankly still a bit of a mystery to me.

Like I said, I've been pondering the comment, and I'm confused. To my way of thinking, a stopped-up muffler would keep more air in the cylinder during the exhaust stroke, thereby increasing the total amount of air in the mixture and making the mix lean.
Conversely, it seems to me that a free-flowing pipe would move air out of the cylinder more efficiently, reducing the total amount of air, thereby making the mix rich.

But all this hypothesizing is actually opposite of what you are saying. I totally believe that I am wrong... I just don't really understand why....

Can anyone explain?

Cheers,
Christian

Think about it this way, with a more restricted exhaust flow (IE muffler restricting air flow out of the engine) then the spent gasses are not going to efficiently exit the combustion chamber, thus leaving some used up air in the combustion chamber when you are trying to have the fresh intake charge enter the combustion chamber. Therefore, if you have a restrictive exhaust system, then you have less fresh air entering the engine and need less fuel to have the correct air/fuel ratio.

On the inverse, having an less restrictive (more free flowing) exhaust system will allow more room for fresh air to enter the engine and will require more fuel to maintain the correct air/fuel ratio.

A restrictive exhaust system can also affect savaging but that is another topic.

Hope this explanation makes sense
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:17 PM   #7278
davek181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracus124 View Post
well it turns out my ignition coil was good. I was testing it wrong the first time. My pick-up coil is reading 398 ohms I just had the crankcase cover off two or three days before the bike died and I already have to buy another gasket. joy! Is it hard to change the pulse generator??
The pulse generator is easy to change. You might get away with the same gasket if you are lucky. I have reused mine before.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:08 AM   #7279
crobox
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I did a little work on the bike last night, and I figured I'd replace the coil with the new one I have sitting around since the rebuild.

However, I found that the resistance values for the existing coil, currently on the bike, were within the range specified in the Clymer manual, while the values for the new coil were lower than the lowest acceptable value. I decided to follow "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," and left the existing coil in place.

As a coil progressively gets older and eventually fails, do those resistance values go up? Or down?
In other words, is that new coil, with its low values, at the beginning of a long service life? Or a dud?

Cheers,
Christian
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Previous Bikes: Honda XL250R (2 of them), Honda XL600R, Kawasaki KLR600, BMW K1100LT, BMW R60/6, BMW K75, Husqvarna 430XC
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:20 AM   #7280
Carter Pewterschmidt
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Had to freshen a few things up this weekend.



Nice coat of epoxy primer ready for a liberal dousing of a certain favorite tone of mine....






GOLD!









And what just what gold are you seeing my fellow metal tone junkies ask?



A very nice Honda color applied to the 2001 Civic models called Inca Pearl. Once of my all time favorite golds. When I opened the paint can it looked so good in there that my friends had to stop me from drinking all of it.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:20 AM   #7281
davek181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crobox View Post
I did a little work on the bike last night, and I figured I'd replace the coil with the new one I have sitting around since the rebuild.

However, I found that the resistance values for the existing coil, currently on the bike, were within the range specified in the Clymer manual, while the values for the new coil were lower than the lowest acceptable value. I decided to follow "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," and left the existing coil in place.

As a coil progressively gets older and eventually fails, do those resistance values go up? Or down?
In other words, is that new coil, with its low values, at the beginning of a long service life? Or a dud?

Cheers,
Christian

The resistance through the primary side of the coil is the total resistance of the length of wire wound inside. It is a known value based on wire gauge and length.

Lower resistance would then denote a shorter wire inside all other things being equal. My guess is that there is a shorted connection inside the windings thus shortening the resistance path in the coil that reads lower.

Possibly they used a lower resistance wire or a few less wraps, I still wouldn't use it if that were the case since the rest of the system is designed around the original resistance value.

Dave
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:12 PM   #7282
ddks
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This thread or ... ?

Hey all,

I am new to the forum and trouble shooting a repair on an 1983 XL600R. I was hoping to get some help but a little confused on the where to post. Should I just post directly into the main The XL600R thread or create my own?



Thanks,
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:04 PM   #7283
lookfar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddks View Post
Hey all,

I am new to the forum and trouble shooting a repair on an 1983 XL600R. I was hoping to get some help but a little confused on the where to post. Should I just post directly into the main The XL600R thread or create my own?



Thanks,
Herein lies everything XL600...ask away

If you start your own thread, it may get lost

As for your question, you should be getting a lot more voltage that that, from memory around 40 volts when kicking it over.
There a 3 windings on the XL600 stator, one set for the engine (spark etc), one set for the headlight, and another set to charge the battery.
If you put your multimeter on the red/black wire, how much voltage are you getting? This wire goes to the CDI for your spark. If you are only getting 7 volts here, I think your stator is fingered...
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lookfar screwed with this post 04-07-2013 at 11:32 PM
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:00 AM   #7284
RFVC600R
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So what do you guys use for gasket goop? Is brown RVT any good? thats what I used...

I really hope I tested the pulse generator right..... I'm anxious to get on the bike again
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:11 AM   #7285
chellejohno
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Hey guys,

Just a quick thanks to all on this forum for all the help you've given. I've been reading this post (but never posted) for the last 12 months or so, and so it's ironic that the first time I've posted is when I no longer have my XL.

It's just been sold, but the guy didn't want all my NOS parts that I'd accumulated, so just letting you all know that I've just stuck some of the parts on Evilbay. As I sort it all out ill put more on there,but at the moment there's plastics, head etc all NOS.

Once again, thanks for the invaluable help over the last 12 months

Cheers Johno
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:07 AM   #7286
davek181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracus124 View Post
So what do you guys use for gasket goop? Is brown RVT any good? thats what I used...

I really hope I tested the pulse generator right..... I'm anxious to get on the bike again
The best gasket goop for a Honda is Hondabond, available at both Honda car and bike parts departments. If unavalable, Yamabond is the same, Suzukibond, etc. Made by three bond company in Japan. Grey in color, same stuff used when the bike was built.

You really don't need any gasket sealer on Honda gaskets for the most part. I use a touch of Hondabond at the case half joining point on the base gasket and a touch at the stator grommet, and a very light film on the top cover gasket that I always reuse. If you do use any be very stingy and you should see very little, if any squeezed out the joint. What you see squeezed out, you also have squeezed in. I have seen oil pickup screens plugged by excessive sealant squeezings.

In the trade, if you see any color RTV sticking out of the case joints you immediately jump to the subconscious conclusion that there might be something wrong under that cover. IE someone was there that didn't belong. (I know that is harsh thinking, but in forensic analysis you go with your gut)
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:06 AM   #7287
ddks
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1983 electrical problem

Hey all,

I recently decided to try and get my XL600R up and running again. There are a few minor mechanical problems but I am starting with an electrical issue. As a history flash this back was running perfectly untill it got parked for a few years (by me). Top end was rebuilt and everything was running smoothly.

One important side note is that somehow a 6V battery got into the bike, I have honestly no idea how/when this happened and how much the bike had been ridden with it. What would be the impact of this? Assume it would put strain on the stator?

So right now my main problem is no spark - sigh. Here is what I tried so far: replaced the CDI and Inginition coil and tested:

1 - I checked the spark plug and cap for open circuit, also substituted
2 - I checked continuity of all wires
3 - I Checked voltage of stator ( about 7 volts dc at crank speed)
4 - I checked continuity within connector block to CDI
5 - I Checked output of pulse generator which is generating low volts ac precisely as expected
6 - I Hooked up battery to main supply wires ( no indication on dash and no current draw which is odd but this shouldn't matter to ignition circuit! Many stators need battery volts to become 'alive' but this one evidently works without which is typical of earlier enduro's. Incidentally the battery fitted is
incorrect as it is a six volt one- it should be 12 volts- very surprised it didn't blow but something weird has happened to the wiring.
7 - I hooked up 12 volt battery direct to cdi ( in place of stator volts and ground) still no go.
8 - I drained oil and removed engine/crankcase cover and ancilliaries and swapped pulse generator.
9 - I tried to trigger both pulse generators with a magnet on the drill chuck which I used to spin motor. Lots of output from pulse generator but still no spark- extremely baffling.
10 - I reversed coil wires just as a last ditch effort.

Tried a few other things but this just isn't sparking. I was reading another thread on this forum and a few comments about the need for a battery or not to start the bike, a few mixed messages. So far I have been doing all of this really without a charged battery connected.

I was reading this thread which at the start shows a similar problem
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448785

So one of the suspects is the stator, when I measure the output using a drill to turn the engine over I get around 7V but this is with a drill at fairly low RPM's say 80 or so. What should this be at low RPM's? Also would a visual check on the stator help? Just swap it with a Ricky regardless?

LookFar responsed earlier that the stator should be delivering around 40 volts at crank.

Any help or advice on what to try next? My suggestion was to:
- put in a fully charged battery
- just replace the stator it with a Ricky?

Thanks all,
Dan
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:13 AM   #7288
ddks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookfar View Post
Herein lies everything XL600...ask away

If you start your own thread, it may get lost

As for your question, you should be getting a lot more voltage that that, from memory around 40 volts when kicking it over.
There a 3 windings on the XL600 stator, one set for the engine (spark etc), one set for the headlight, and another set to charge the battery.
If you put your multimeter on the red/black wire, how much voltage are you getting? This wire goes to the CDI for your spark. If you are only getting 7 volts here, I think your stator is fingered...
So I guess just swapping the stator is the quickest and easiest thing to do here and from the sounds could likely be the fix to the no-spark problem. One the tests I did do was hook up a fully charged battery to the CDI directly to eliminate the stator problem BUT I did this only against the old CDI not the newly replaced one. I am slowly suspecting both the CDI and Stator are toast (as you know the bike had been running for a while with only a 6V battery and I am not sure what damage this would cause).

Thanks
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:32 AM   #7289
brucifer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carter Pewterschmidt View Post
Had to freshen a few things up this weekend.



Nice coat of epoxy primer ready for a liberal dousing of a certain favorite tone of mine....






GOLD!









And what just what gold are you seeing my fellow metal tone junkies ask?



A very nice Honda color applied to the 2001 Civic models called Inca Pearl. Once of my all time favorite golds. When I opened the paint can it looked so good in there that my friends had to stop me from drinking all of it.
You're a sick man Carter. Not for drinking the paint but for keeping that hideous color. Just kiddin' bro. Looks good. It's definitely not my favorite paint scheme but I salute you for keeping the factory colors.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:34 AM   #7290
davek181
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Sounds like a stator to me. There are three separate circuits in the stator. one for lights (AC), one for charging, DC, one for ignition, also AC. The ignition lead will put out 50 volts or more cranking, AC. The other two should put out 14 volts or so running, it will be AC right out of the stator. The charging circuit gets converted to DC down the line a ways. Both low voltage circuits are regulated downstream too. You will see the headlight glimmer on kicking if the 12 volt AC stator circuit is intact. You might also see the neutral light glimmer if the DC system is intact.

The bike will run with no battery at all, it doesn't use the battery except as reserve power for the neutral light and taillight and turn signals.

I doubt a 6 volt battery did any damage to the bike, conversely I would think the bike would have cooked the battery.

Hooking up 12 volts to the CDI would get you nowhere, the CDI is expecting 50 + volts AC delivered from the stator so it wouldn't even respond to 12 volts, especially DC.

I doubt seriously it did any damage to the CDI hooking it up that way, you sounded a little concerned about that.
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