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Old 08-19-2009, 08:46 AM   #811
Waldo308
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Gasket set

Well, we tried to get the '83 XL600 out for a ride up the local mountain after a few short rides on the street.

Half way to the base of the mountain the shift lever started flopping in about a 120 degree arc. Had to truck it back to the house.

The lever is tight on the shaft and the shaft can be easily moved over 100 degrees with little resistance. It looks like we're going to have to tear the whole damned engine down, which we were hoping to avoid.

I've tried to find a complete engine gasket kit but have not seen that on Bike Bandit or Babbit's. Do you have to order several gasket kits? We also want to replace all of the seals while we have it apart.

Am I just not looking in the right place? Any recommendations from you guys who have already experienced this?

Thanks for your time.
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:23 AM   #812
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EDIT: Ignore this as I didn't accurately read the above post. Sorry

I am not positive, but I think you have to split the cases to replace the shifter shaft mechanism. If that is true, and the bike is otherwise not in need of repair, why not just weld the shifter to the shaft for a temporary fix. You can cut it off when time comes for rebuild. Maybe use a folding shifter so it does not break easy. Be sure to apply something wet to the case and surrounds so seal and case are not affected by torch heat.
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:37 AM   #813
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I think Service Honda lists gasket sets. They can also be found on eBay, but be sure to get one of the better sets that has metal shim gaskets for the head and head cover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic
I am not positive, but I think you have to split the cases to replace the shifter shaft mechanism. If that is true, and the bike is otherwise not in need of repair, why not just weld the shifter to the shaft for a temporary fix.
He said the shaft itself is moving 120, which means it broke inside the engine. And yes, the cases have to be split to replace it.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:14 PM   #814
Waldo308
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Complete Engine Gasket kit search

Skeptic:
When my son told me what was happening, that was my first thought too. You can imagine how disappointed I was to find that the shift lever wasn't the problem and that the shaft was moving freely. Thanks for the response.

HeadTrauma:
Thanks for the suggestion. Tried Service Honda and they don't list anything (that I can find) for the '83 XL's. Good call on the metal gaskets. We ran into this when we had to replace the valve cover gasket. Even then, we found that we had to use a smidgen of sealant to keep it from weeping in certain spots.

Unless someone else comes up with with an easier (and cheaper) way, It looks like we'll either have to piecemeal the seals and gaskets we need from a couple of different areas on Babbitt's/Bike Bandit or go to our local Honda dealer and really get the shaft.

Thanks for the input guys.
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Old 08-19-2009, 04:44 PM   #815
mcma111
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Shift Shaft

First thing to do is to pull the clutch cover and check the star piece on the end of the shift drum. Either the spring loaded roller wheel for the star has come loose or the star did. Chech these things first. If this is not it then it's time to dive a little deeper.

As far as gaskets go I buy just what is needed to do the job. For a complete tear down, Cylinder head and base gaskets, rocker,clutch cover, stator and center case gaskets. This is the best approach. The sets that honda sells have things that are some times not used and ya pay dearly for them.

Good luck and keep us informed.
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Old 08-19-2009, 05:58 PM   #816
Waldo308
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Shift roller and star....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111
First thing to do is to pull the clutch cover and check the star piece on the end of the shift drum. Either the spring loaded roller wheel for the star has come loose or the star did. Chech these things first. If this is not it then it's time to dive a little deeper.
.....
I've pulled the clutch cover off and looked at the roller wheel and star and they seem to be in position. I have not done anything yet to see if they are loose. I was hoping that this was the problem so I wouldn't have to split the cases.

The only thing that is curious is that it is not in quite the same orientation as shown in the photo in my Clymer's manual. The roller seems to be firmly in position in one of the detents of the star but the star is oriented upside down from what is shown in the illustration. Not sure if that means anything or not.

I have removed the clutch plates, bearing and the cylinder that presses against the bearing. Now I have to go buy a clutch holding tool so I can remove the nut so the clutch basket can be removed and I can get a closer view of things.

Thanks for the recommendation on the gaskets.
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Waldo308 screwed with this post 08-20-2009 at 06:27 PM
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:32 PM   #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldo308
I've pulled the clutch cover off and looked at the roller wheel and star and they seem to be in position. I have not done anything yet to see if they are loose. I was hoping that this was the problem so I wouldn't have to split the cases.

The only thing that is curious is that it is not in quite the same orientation as shown in the photo in my Clymer's manual. The roller seems to be firmly in position in one of the detents of the star but the star is oriented upside down from what is shown in the illustration. Not sure if that means anything or not.

I have removed the clutch plates, bearing and the cyliinder that presses against the bearing. Now I have to go buy a clutch holding tool so I can remove the nut so the clutch basket can be removed and I can get a closer view of things.

Thanks for the recommendation on the gaskets.
Have you tried stuffing a rag in between the gears to loosen up the nut.
Don't laugh, I did this when I pulled the clutch basket out of my '83 Suzuki GS1100E. It does actually work. You might get lucky.
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:35 PM   #818
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A rattle gun(impact wrench) will also remove the clutch hub nut without a holder.

Whatever you do, don't get a clutch holder that bolts onto the posts on the center hub. They tend to break those posts off and then you're SOL unless you have a machinist as a friend.
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:59 PM   #819
Waldo308
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Clutch basket removal.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by crag antler
Have you tried stuffing a rag in between the gears to loosen up the nut.
Don't laugh, I did this when I pulled the clutch basket out of my '83 Suzuki GS1100E. It does actually work. You might get lucky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadTrauma
A rattle gun(impact wrench) will also remove the clutch hub nut without a holder.

Whatever you do, don't get a clutch holder that bolts onto the posts on the center hub. They tend to break those posts off and then you're SOL unless you have a machinist as a friend.
Thank you gentlemen. That's why I'm here.....to ask for and receive sage advice from those who have already tread this path and discovered the traps therein.

Tomorrow (if I'm lucky enough to get home from work at a reasonable hour) I'll stuff a lint-free rag in the gears and get out my "rattlegun" (a new term for me.....I like it!) and give 'er a go. I'll let you know how it works out.

Thanks again gents!
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:27 PM   #820
mcma111
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Clutch Removal

Put all of the clutch plates and disc's back into the clutch hub and just hold onto the outer hub as you gun the center nut off. IT WORKS. Been doing it this way for YEARS....

Don't know why you want to pull the clutch though...
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:40 PM   #821
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My guesses:

1.) It makes more room to access the star wheel/detent for the shift drum.

2.) It will have to come off anyway if the cases are going to be split.

I really wouldn't mind if Honda had kept using the upper and lower case halves like their old bikes had. It may still be a pain to open the bottom end, but at least the top end didn't have to come off most of the time. Earlier this year I had to replace a kickstart shaft(common) in a low-mileage XL175. Although the Clymer manual said the whole thing had to come apart, I was able to pull the bottom case without disturbing the head or cylinder.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:37 AM   #822
Waldo308
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Clutch removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111
Don't know why you want to pull the clutch though...
HeadTrauma has it right. The wheel and detent are firmly in place so the damage is inside the case. Even if I didn't have to split the cases for that reason, the engine has to come apart anyway.

This bike sat collecting dust for about 12 years without being started. During the abbreviated ride to the local mountain it was becoming obvious that every single seal on the engine was weeping oil. By the time I got back with the truck (about 45 minutes), there were three separate oil puddles under the engine.

I'm afraid it's time. Since it has to come apart, we're going to check every single part and replace all of the seals, any bearings that show any significant wear and anything that is not in spec. Will probably also hone the barrel and put in new rings.

So, the clutch will be coming out.....that is, after I follow your advice to reinstall the plates to get the nut off.

Thanks again folks.
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:48 PM   #823
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Cool, another rebuild. If you haven't read Gregster's rebuild thread, it would be a great idea to do so, his photos and hands-on layman's description of everything is super-helpful. There should be a link to it in any of his posts, his is the forst of this thread. He inspired and enlightened me in my rebuild quest, which led to much, much tinkering over the last two years.

Now I've got a 1998 XR600 bottom end with 1983 kickstart stuff and clutch cover in it, bolted to a 1985 xr600 cylinder with a wiseco piston inside it and an OEM 1983 rebuilt head and an aftermarket heed gasket that is on it's third use and doing fine. And with all this, the bike is running it's best in two years. I've learned that they're just parts, you have to learn to make them work for you!

Oh yeah, go read Gregster's rebuild thread. Contact me if you have trouble splitting the cases, I know a few tricks he doesn't show.
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:11 PM   #824
Waldo308
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Rebuild

Thanks Zombie. It was reading your story that gave me the confidence to go ahead and go forward with starting the rebuild.

I have been reading through all of the XL600 threads having to do with the engine and will read Gregster's thread again. It's been about 4 months since I read it so I need to go through it again.

Thanks for the offer of help when I need it. No doubt I'll be posting at some critical point!

Regards,
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:13 PM   #825
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Thanks, I wish I could get those warm fuzzies over a rebuilt as when I first stumbled upon those first threads by greg and ere109, and my bike in the summer of 2007. Those were the days.
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