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Old 09-09-2013, 09:01 AM   #8911
ElMartillo
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Joined: Sep 2009
Location: When Idle, Southern California
Oddometer: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookfar View Post
How many volts are you getting from your stator when you are kicking it over? Looking for somewhere between 50-70volts
I will check voltage today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
ElMartillo,

I'd bet you seized the piston or dropped a valve seat.

Got oil??
Plenty of oil in the bike. Not making any strange mechanical noises, and when I cycle the motor with the kickstarter without touching the decompression lever it feels absolutely no different after than it did before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davek181 View Post
Make sure you cover the basics before you tear it down. Valve seats usually make a little noise first, then compression goes away. Do a compression and/or a leakdown test first.

I would pop off the carb bowls and see if something might be in the main jets. If the bike sat for a long time it may be now washing out the corners of the tank.

Look for loose electrical connections from the stator through the CDI and coil too. Clean and inspect grounds too.

Make sure a mouse didn't build a nest in the air cleaner.

Was the plug wet? Damaged? black?


Dave
I'll look into the simpler solutions first. As mentioned above, the bike made no strange mechanical noises prior to the incident. I will check compression, but it feels no different than it did prior.

The plug that I replaced was dry, encrusted with a heavy-ish layer of tan-colored deposit. The previous owner said he never changed it, and he bought the bike with 1200 miles on it, so there's a good chance it was the original!

I have been running this bike nearly every day since I got it, kept the oil level up, I've put 5000 miles on it in a few months. I mentioned that I still have yet to go through the carbs, because I got it running well and saw no need. It has a clean plastic tank and a new transparent fuel filter. Well, it recently sat for about 3 weeks, and prior to this I added some fuel stabilizer. Perhaps the fuel additive affected what may have been sitting in the carbs from before I got the bike. I'm going through the carbs today. I'm skeptical though as the incident was sudden, and both carbs would have needed to be affected nearly simultaneously.

I'm keeping an open mind, and I appreciate all the input!

Thanks!
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:25 AM   #8912
davek181
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If the main jet on the primary carb were to plug up, it would run crappy even if the secondary were not. Not so much the other way. I had the link between the carbs break once and it ran fine for the most part but gutless.

When my stator was dying it ran as though one of the carbs was plugged intermittently. That is what I thought was happening actually. Eventually it died altogether and forced the issue. New stator and it never acted that way again.

I did have a Ricky stator failure on my XL too. It was failed on the charging coil, so it ran fine, just the battery went dead while running. On my second Ricky now.

Check your voltage out of the ignition lead on the stator. It should put out 50 volts or more A/C even at cranking speeds. None of the other leads out of the stator will affect running of the engine.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:34 AM   #8913
ElMartillo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davek181 View Post
If the main jet on the primary carb were to plug up, it would run crappy even if the secondary were not. Not so much the other way. I had the link between the carbs break once and it ran fine for the most part but gutless.

When my stator was dying it ran as though one of the carbs was plugged intermittently. That is what I thought was happening actually. Eventually it died altogether and forced the issue. New stator and it never acted that way again.

I did have a Ricky stator failure on my XL too. It was failed on the charging coil, so it ran fine, just the battery went dead while running. On my second Ricky now.

Check your voltage out of the ignition lead on the stator. It should put out 50 volts or more A/C even at cranking speeds. None of the other leads out of the stator will affect running of the engine.
Thanks for the info. I just checked the stator output. With my digital multimeter, I placed one lead on the black/red wire coming out of the stator. I placed the other lead on the wire from the wiring harness that the stator wire plugs into. I set the multimeter to 200V AC. Over the course of several kicks it read as low as 53.0 to as high as 79.0. It seems to me the stator output is good.

On to the carbs.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:07 PM   #8914
ElMartillo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElMartillo View Post
On to the carbs.
Upon disassembly of the carbs, which are reasonably clean, the jet and mixing tube in the primary carb had completely unscrewed itself. This will have provided too much fuel, causing it to lose higher RPM range, poor running and flooding otherwise. Bike is idling a lot better now. No wonder all the electrical checked out fine! :)

I learned a lot with this issue, thanks for all the suggestions!
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:29 PM   #8915
RFVC600R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElMartillo View Post
Upon disassembly of the carbs, which are reasonably clean, the jet and mixing tube in the primary carb had completely unscrewed itself. This will have provided too much fuel, causing it to lose higher RPM range, poor running and flooding otherwise. Bike is idling a lot better now. No wonder all the electrical checked out fine! :)

I learned a lot with this issue, thanks for all the suggestions!
This happened at about 5,000 miles? Honda recommends carb maintenance at 5k miles. maybe it's cuz they fall apart by this time?
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:08 PM   #8916
ElMartillo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFVC600R View Post
This happened at about 5,000 miles? Honda recommends carb maintenance at 5k miles. maybe it's cuz they fall apart by this time?
Maybe, but the bike has 41,000 miles on it, I've only put the last 5000 miles on it myself.
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:52 AM   #8917
Dread_lion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFVC600R View Post
This happened at about 5,000 miles? Honda recommends carb maintenance at 5k miles. maybe it's cuz they fall apart by this time?
You are confusing our old honda's with modern stuff
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:41 AM   #8918
davek181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElMartillo View Post
Upon disassembly of the carbs, which are reasonably clean, the jet and mixing tube in the primary carb had completely unscrewed itself. This will have provided too much fuel, causing it to lose higher RPM range, poor running and flooding otherwise. Bike is idling a lot better now. No wonder all the electrical checked out fine! :)

I learned a lot with this issue, thanks for all the suggestions!
I am glad you found the problem. It also explains the suddenness of failure. I love it when things are so easy and obvious.

I have to disagree with the too much fuel supposition though, my feeling is that it would be just the opposite since the unscrewed elumsion tube would break the vacuum that is needed to suck fuel through the main jet. I think you poor running problems were due to running only on the secondary carb above idle. It would idle semi normally since that is a different jet and system. I would also think the plug would have been black, maybe even wet, if it were too much fuel.

Not that any of that matters now that it is fixed. Just me exercising my right to free thinking and my own opinions. apparently i do have too much time on my hands, or I am very good at shirking important duties.

Again, glad it is fixed, I suggest further testing at every possible opportunity just to be sure.

Dave
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:49 AM   #8919
Aaron from Texas
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Well, my FJ80 is royally buggered, for now. Coolant is still getting in to the oil, so I'm on the search for a good short block... I'm gonna move my sights to the XL, in hopes I don't black out and end up with a vehicular fire in my driveway.

So I know "Engine Dynamics" is the creme de la creme for RFVC engines, but has anyone had any experience with Al Baker's on this? I know they used to be known as the go-to for all these bikes... how about now-a-days?
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:40 AM   #8920
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I see your in Texas. Since you'll be shipping your engine parts to get worked on send them to Engine Dynamics.



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Old 09-11-2013, 07:54 AM   #8921
Aaron from Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
I see your in Texas. Since you'll be shipping your engine parts to get worked on send them to Engine Dynamics.
What sort of costs am I looking at? Was that done with new valves? Bigger valves? I see they repaired the center journal on the cam?
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:00 AM   #8922
mcma111
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Yes on the cam journal repair. Washed and bead blasted the head. Just cut the OE valves and seats. $225.00 for the valve job and $15.00 for valve stem seals.
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BMW's
58 R26
79 R100s
91 R100gs

87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:44 PM   #8923
lookfar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk the Jerk View Post
Well, my FJ80 is royally buggered, for now. Coolant is still getting in to the oil, so I'm on the search for a good short block... I'm gonna move my sights to the XL, in hopes I don't black out and end up with a vehicular fire in my driveway.

So I know "Engine Dynamics" is the creme de la creme for RFVC engines, but has anyone had any experience with Al Baker's on this? I know they used to be known as the go-to for all these bikes... how about now-a-days?
Do you have compression getting into the radiator? Take radiator cap off with the engine running and see if there are bubbles in the coolant, you could just have a buggered head gasket.

A good source for info is www.lcool.org/forum. You will have to register to look at anything and post, but it is free and a really good site for everything landcruiser.

Another is www.toyodiy.com for parts info and exploded diagrams.
This site is the centralized repository for answers to all your car-related questions, such as repair procedures of various levels of difficulty (from an oil change to transmission swaps), modifications (also known as "mods"), general information, part information and much more.

HTH
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:47 PM   #8924
Reposado1800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
Yes on the cam journal repair. Washed and bead blasted the head. Just cut the OE valves and seats. $225.00 for the valve job and $15.00 for valve stem seals.
I would seriously recommend doing the exhaust seats as it seems everybody is having them come loose.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:30 PM   #8925
mcma111
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If the head is sent to Engine Dynamics, Mike says he can see if the seat will present a problem. He has repaired lots of these heads going back a long, long way.

Perhaps this is why I have been his customer for 30 years. Where did the time go???
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BMW's
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79 R100s
91 R100gs

87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
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