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Old 08-30-2007, 09:42 PM   #31
bostonsr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoDiablo
yeah, yeah, speeding tickets… slow down already. What's the most lucrative type of illegal activity combined with the lowest probability of becoming incarcerated ? ? Nothing violent please… that's distasteful.

ahh… fuck it. I'll just keep the damn job.
traffic court judge??? lol

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Old 08-30-2007, 10:13 PM   #32
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I have gotten a few tickets that were unfair, a few that were fair and I have been let off the hook a few times too. Once I got pulled over because the LEO wanted to check out my bike, we talked about dual sport riding for 15 or 20 minutes.

I am not sure there are any hard and fast rules on what to expect when you see the lights behind you. They are just people; there are jerks, weirdos, good guys, guys having a bad night and guys having a good night.
Unfortunately the bad ones still have guns, badges and radios which act to ampilfy their bad traits. About all you can do is be polite and hope for the best.

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Old 08-30-2007, 10:25 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMoThumper
Absolutely. Ever wonder what that uncomfortable delay is when Johnny 5.0 is behind you and you know you've been busted? He has already called in a traffic stop, given the location, vehicle description and the tag # to dispatch. From that he gets the registration info (is it current and does it match the vehicle, is it stolen?), he can also run a warrant check and driving history on the registered owner (who is most likely driving). Now, usually, most LEOs will wait to request a driving history and criminal history check until the driver has been positively identified. This is the uncomfortable wait after he has walked back to his patrol unit. Some departments will do all of this thru dispatch, many these days have the ability to do all of that via wireless from a computer in the patrol unit. And the records go back as far as needed, across state lines and everything.
This explains why for years I got away only with warnings. The moment I got the first ticket (in lovely Ohio) all stops after that resulted in a ticket. Also I'm wondering if an unpaid ticket out of state (no court) will actually show as such. Given that I was stopped about two months ago here in town, my guess is that it probably doesn't.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sherpa2
This explains why for years I got away only with warnings. The moment I got the first ticket (in lovely Ohio) all stops after that resulted in a ticket. Also I'm wondering if an unpaid ticket out of state (no court) will actually show as such. Given that I was stopped about two months ago here in town, my guess is that it probably doesn't.
Possibly, depends if a bench warrant was issued. Here's how that works:
If you get pulled over and receive a ticket, you are technically under arrest. Not custodial arrest but technically under arrest nonetheless. When you sign the ticket/summons ("Press hard 3 copies") you are then released on your promise to appear (either in person or by admitting guilt and paying the fine via mail or internet). If and when you fail to appear the respective court has authority to issue a bench warrant for FTA or Failure to Appear. So, 3 years later you get pulled over, Sgt. Squarenuts runs your license and that warrant shows up. He confirms the warrant and maybe you go to jail. If it's out of state and there is no request for extradition you are good to go (as will be the case with most if not all misdemeanor offenses). In that case the good Sgt. should advise you of the outstanding warrant and politely encourage you to attend to it. If there is a request to extradite your sorry *ss then you get cuffed and stuffed, hauled to the pokey where two things can happen. The original court can decide that you are low risk and are able to bond out locally. Or, the judge that issued the warrant may want to see you in person. In which case you will be held until arrangements are made to transfer you to the issuing court. Either way you spend time in jail. And thus usually happens at the most inopportunistic time. And things can be worse. If you were driving/riding and the extradition is confirmed on scene then your ride may be towed (especially if you are alone). So, my advice is to call the issuing department and double check the ticket. Courts will often work out some sort of deal on the fine if you come forward on your own. These things have a tendency to pop up at the worst of times. In your case the officer may have only checked your record city wide, or county wide or state wide. Unless he ran you through NCIS (national crime data base) it most likely would not show up. And running someone through NCIS for a routine traffic stop is the exception and not the rule. However, as I stated, these tend to show up out of the blue and make a bad day worse. I once stopped a guy for hitch hiking, checked him out and he had a misdemeanor drug warrant out of Oregon (this was in Arkansas) and they wanted to extradite him. He went to jail. It was a Saturday. He had to wait until Monday to see the judge and as it turned out they Oregon court let him bond out locally. Still, it ruined his weekend and he got to spend a couple of nights in jail and then come up with bond money. But I got a check mark in the warrant column!!!
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Old 08-30-2007, 11:19 PM   #35
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Very interesting info, JoMo. As I often end up not opening my mail and later misplacing it thoroughly, I can't tell for sure what I got from that court. I guess it was only a notification of "guilty" since I didn't go to court nor did I send the affidavit defense as intended, and a request to pay the fine. The last thing I got was a standard letter from that state's DMV saying that my license is suspended until I pay the fine (but my license is not from that state, so I don't know what that means). They also said that the license can be reinstated after 5 years even without paying the court fee.

You're also saying that courts can work out some deal. Of course I'd rather pay than risk arrest, but I would rather they worked out a deal where I won't pay that insane amount (their system is absurd enough that I saw a judge reduce all tickets by the same percentage without any request from offenders).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMoThumper
Possibly, depends if a bench warrant was issued. Here's how that works:
If you get pulled over and receive a ticket, you are technically under arrest. Not custodial arrest but technically under arrest nonetheless. When you sign the ticket/summons ("Press hard 3 copies") you are then released on your promise to appear (either in person or by admitting guilt and paying the fine via mail or internet). If and when you fail to appear the respective court has authority to issue a bench warrant for FTA or Failure to Appear. So, 3 years later you get pulled over, Sgt. Squarenuts runs your license and that warrant shows up. He confirms the warrant and maybe you go to jail. If it's out of state and there is no request for extradition you are good to go (as will be the case with most if not all misdemeanor offenses). In that case the good Sgt. should advise you of the outstanding warrant and politely encourage you to attend to it. If there is a request to extradite your sorry *ss then you get cuffed and stuffed, hauled to the pokey where two things can happen. The original court can decide that you are low risk and are able to bond out locally. Or, the judge that issued the warrant may want to see you in person. In which case you will be held until arrangements are made to transfer you to the issuing court. Either way you spend time in jail. And thus usually happens at the most inopportunistic time. And things can be worse. If you were driving/riding and the extradition is confirmed on scene then your ride may be towed (especially if you are alone). So, my advice is to call the issuing department and double check the ticket. Courts will often work out some sort of deal on the fine if you come forward on your own. These things have a tendency to pop up at the worst of times. In your case the officer may have only checked your record city wide, or county wide or state wide. Unless he ran you through NCIS (national crime data base) it most likely would not show up. And running someone through NCIS for a routine traffic stop is the exception and not the rule. However, as I stated, these tend to show up out of the blue and make a bad day worse. I once stopped a guy for hitch hiking, checked him out and he had a misdemeanor drug warrant out of Oregon (this was in Arkansas) and they wanted to extradite him. He went to jail. It was a Saturday. He had to wait until Monday to see the judge and as it turned out they Oregon court let him bond out locally. Still, it ruined his weekend and he got to spend a couple of nights in jail and then come up with bond money. But I got a check mark in the warrant column!!!
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Old 08-31-2007, 01:33 AM   #36
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Jeez, you guys can be pretty lenient - ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) guidelines in the UK were (and possibly still are) 10% + 2mph (30 = 35, 70 = 79, etc), where we still have traffic police and not just cameras
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Old 08-31-2007, 05:00 AM   #37
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If you're from IL and in WI, about 2 mph over is all you can get away with. It all depends.
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Old 08-31-2007, 05:21 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uthor
If you're from IL and in WI, about 2 mph over is all you can get away with. It all depends.

I travelled through both those states...and had similiar experience as in NC or GA....

I was speeding (+10 or +15 over the limit, at least), behind an SUV. I see the LEO coming down the onramp, and yield one lane, but DID NOT slow down.

He comes beside me...we wave. He pulls over the SUV.

I've had more good luck on my RT, then cage. I've been stopped, and no ticket issued or had a 'rolling warning' issued 6 times...
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Old 08-31-2007, 06:02 AM   #39
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It kinda depends where you are in WI, I guess. Southern WI around I-94, especially in the Lake Geneva area is a haven for Chicagoians on the weekends and the locals don't seem to like it too much. Haven't riden my bike up that way, so that may be a difference. Even more so if you aren't riding a yuppie bike (chromed out Harley). I hear they don't bother people if they are driving beatup old pickups and such, but will go after the nice expensive cars/SUVs.
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Old 08-31-2007, 07:10 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMoThumper
As far as quotas go here is how it worked for us. Every month each officer had his/her total citations put onto a spreadsheet into different categories. For example: speeding, traffic control device (stop signs/lights), insurance/registration/inspection, faulty equipment, no seatbelt/unrestrained child, reckless driving and so forth. They did the same for criminal offenses, warrants and you get the idea. The average per officer was then calculated. If you were below that average your name and total was highlighted for that month. Below average 2 months in a row in the same category then the Sgt. spoke to you about it. 3 months in a row it was written and now officially on your permanent record. I never heard of anyone below below the line for more than 2 months. It's just too easy to increase your numbers for citations.
That makes no sense. Getting written up on a curve? You will always have someone below average, that is how averaging works. It would be one thing if you had to stay with X amount of the average. I could see that. They way you describe it, every month you are going to be picking another category to concentrate on so you don't have a below average month 3 months in a row. I guess as long as you keep rotating, you are fine.
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Old 08-31-2007, 07:17 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMoThumper
And running someone through NCIS for a routine traffic stop is the exception and not the rule.
Here the CADs are set up to automatically run the registered owner through NCIS, the state and local systems as well as DMV when you run the tag. So if you have multiple registered owners, it runs it all through everything.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:36 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGo Gadget
Here the CADs are set up to automatically run the registered owner through NCIS, the state and local systems as well as DMV when you run the tag. So if you have multiple registered owners, it runs it all through everything.
Remember, I haven't been on the street in 13 years now. On board computers were just coming out in some of the larger cities. We handled everything through dispatch and they had your basic 1st generation enhanced 911 CAD system. I switched from law enforcement to the fire service and EMS. When I left last year we were using notebook computers for documenting calls, wireless broadband connectivity, GPS, an onboard "black box" road safety system that recorded location, speed, direction, lean angle, braking and so forth. A lot has changed in the last 10 years. I would imagine the systems today would also automaticlly run a call history for a given location when dispatched to that address.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:43 AM   #43
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I don't like to write speeding tickets. The whole thing seems like a bullshit game dressed up under the guise of "safety". Factor in the "points", increased insurance rates, and it's a big scam. I mean, honestly, is 65 / 55 unsafe at 3:00 am with no other cars around?

That said, I do speed enforcement, along with a lot of other traffic enforcement - especially stop sign / red lights, turn signals, failure to yield, and following too closely. I also write a lot of motorcycles, but almost never for a moving vioaltion. I'm big on licensure and helmet enforcement. We have a big problem with temporay permit riders ditching the helmet, taking on passengers, and riding in violation of the terms of their permit. I don't tolerate that. It's easy to enforce, too, the info pops up with the plate, so I run a lot of bikes.

I typically make a decision about citing someone before I ever get out of my car to make the first contact.

If you're a dick, I cite you for the reason I stopped you and any other violations that I can see - seat belt, cracked glass, etc.

If you're not a dick, and maintain a respectful attitude, I try my damnest to find a non-points violation to write you for. The theory being that you probably deserve a moving violation ticket, but don't deserve the fucking from the insurance company for years after. I explain this quite succinctly to people: "You really deserve a speeding ticket, but I hate to put points on your license, so I'm writing you for no front plate. Same amount of money, but no points and your insurance won't go up...".

Most people seem appreciative of this. I know I would be if I got a ticket.

Of course, I draw the line somewhere. Speeds that are truly dangerous get a ticket for the actual speed, and the corresponding points.

As far as the speeds I stop for, I usually give 13 over in a municipality. That seems more than fair, and yet I still stop a bunch of people for speed.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:53 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGo Gadget
That makes no sense. Getting written up on a curve? You will always have someone below average, that is how averaging works. It would be one thing if you had to stay with X amount of the average. I could see that. They way you describe it, every month you are going to be picking another category to concentrate on so you don't have a below average month 3 months in a row. I guess as long as you keep rotating, you are fine.
My description may not have been entirely clear after reading it again. Basically, the average for each category was calculated using the numbers from all officers. Then you were found to either be above average or below. It actually helped us to police each other. Nobody wanted to go out and write 6 speeding tickets each shift, have 120 for the month and throw the average all to hell. Not a goof way to make friends. If some new guy got a little too eager one of the old timers would reel him in a little. And if it got to the point that someone needed a little help with a category we would work together to get him an easy arrest or warrant. And every beat had at least one sweet spot for catching speeders and what not.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:55 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeefZah
I don't like to write speeding tickets. The whole thing seems like a bullshit game dressed up under the guise of "safety". Factor in the "points", increased insurance rates, and it's a big scam. I mean, honestly, is 65 / 55 unsafe at 3:00 am with no other cars around?

That said, I do speed enforcement, along with a lot of other traffic enforcement - especially stop sign / red lights, turn signals, failure to yield, and following too closely. I also write a lot of motorcycles, but almost never for a moving vioaltion. I'm big on licensure and helmet enforcement. We have a big problem with temporay permit riders ditching the helmet, taking on passengers, and riding in violation of the terms of their permit. I don't tolerate that. It's easy to enforce, too, the info pops up with the plate, so I run a lot of bikes.

I typically make a decision about citing someone before I ever get out of my car to make the first contact.

If you're a dick, I cite you for the reason I stopped you and any other violations that I can see - seat belt, cracked glass, etc.

If you're not a dick, and maintain a respectful attitude, I try my damnest to find a non-points violation to write you for. The theory being that you probably deserve a moving violation ticket, but don't deserve the fucking from the insurance company for years after. I explain this quite succinctly to people: "You really deserve a speeding ticket, but I hate to put points on your license, so I'm writing you for no front plate. Same amount of money, but no points and your insurance won't go up...".

Most people seem appreciative of this. I know I would be if I got a ticket.

Of course, I draw the line somewhere. Speeds that are truly dangerous get a ticket for the actual speed, and the corresponding points.

As far as the speeds I stop for, I usually give 13 over in a municipality. That seems more than fair, and yet I still stop a bunch of people for speed.
It couldn't be any more fair than that. You're my Cop of the Day!
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"That one doesn't look like it would break down so much Daddy."
My 5 year old son every time he sees someone else's bike

Ride Safe, Ride Well, Ride Long and remember...
Everyone Goes Home.

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