Are European Riders Better?

[Medulla]

I recently returned from an epic trip to Greece. There are many more m/cs & scooters on the roads there than here, in the US. Some riders were ATGATT and a larger percentage wear whatever --- shorts, sandels, business suits, no lid -- So my question is, are continental cyclists better trained and more capable than riders in the US? Given the insanity of traffic in Athens and on the Aegean islands I'd imagine a goodly number of road rashes and cracked bones occur but I saw not a dinger while traveling (-- which doesn't mean a thing statistically but still the abundence of gas powered cycles was awesome). Comments? Personally, to me, they sure ride like they have brass balls.... lane splitting, passing into curves and general disregard for any line or sign on the tarmac.



PS while in Greece I rented a lil' 125 scoot for a couple of days & rode completely ATGATT-free. I felt disturbingly naked and vulnerable without the 20 lbs of gear I shoulder when riding at home.

[jagec]

More practiced, I'd say. Here in the States most motorcyclists only ride in the summer, and then only occassionally...I bet the year-round crowd are just as good as the Euros.

Now SE Asia...might be a different story. Watching a group of scooters there is like watching a school of fish.

[AKDuc]

Generally speaking, abso-freaking-lutely!

I think all the countries over there require riders to go through a tiered licensing program.

Riders have to earn, prove, and pay their way onto more powerful bikes. Not only does this make for a more skilled rider but I'm sure it contributes greatly to the respect and acknowledgment given them by cagers.

Know what the average "life expectancy" of a new larger displacement Japanese sportbike is here in the U.S.? Somethin like 3 months!

[Shmerel]

Originally Posted by Medulla

Personally, to me, they sure ride like they have brass balls.... lane splitting, passing into curves and general disregard for any line or sign on the tarmac.
.

Are you saying yanks on wheels have no balls ?

Hey, dudn't everyone filter and go hell for leather...shit, i must have missed somethin'.

[Reprobate]

Depends on the American and European regions - if a rider is used to riding in congested traffic areas, their experience will be far beyond those riders who stick to the boonies.

[Oilybimmer]

I agree with that, Greek/Spanish/etc moped riders are just crazy, the statistics for tourists renting bikes over there are not good reading either, a mix of alcohol and no ATGATT sees to that, the rest of europe?? well we are probably going slower than twenty years ago due to the abundance of speed cameras, certainly in the UK, other on road enforcement has become less, riding styles may vary between city guys who can do what you guys call lane splitting legally over here (in the right circumstances) and country guys who can go quickly on the twisties, a mate of mine who was a Pony Express rider in London reckoned that New York traffic was way easier, I suppose the types of road influence how you ride, we just dont have the distances here on this little island, quicker? Its all down to the individual.
Stewart

[JDLuke]

We probably shouldn't ignore the cagers in the equation, since it seems likely that European cagers would be much more used to (and thus looking for and expecting to find) powered two-wheelers on the road. That's GOT to help keep the accident rate lower by at least a bit.

[Aurelius]

Originally Posted by Medulla

I recently returned from an epic trip to Greece. There are many more m/cs & scooters on the roads there than here, in the US. Some riders were ATGATT and a larger percentage wear whatever --- shorts, sandels, business suits, no lid -- [B]So my question is, are continental cyclists better trained and more capable than riders in the US?

That depends entirely on what region of the country you're talking about and what kind of riding you have in mind. Riding in heavily congested areas takes an entirely different skill set than dragging pegs on twisty mountain roads. If you're talking about the level of training European riders must have in order to obtain their licence, then there's no question about it. Most European countries have a graduated system of licencing that requires years of experience on smaller displacement bikes before being able to legally ride liter class bikes. Here in the US, you're allowed to ride any bike of your choice before you've even passed your road test!

[Aurelius]

Originally Posted by JDLuke

We probably shouldn't ignore the cagers in the equation, since it seems likely that European cagers would be much more used to (and thus looking for and expecting to find) powered two-wheelers on the road. That's GOT to help keep the accident rate lower by at least a bit.

I don't know whether this is true of Europe in general, but in Britain you're allowed to lanesplit (legal here only in the state of California). Knowing this, drivers tend to be much more aware of motorcyclists in their immediate vicinity, and will often move over to allow a motorcyclist to squeeze past. It took me a few days to get accustomed to this, but after a while I could zoom through congested London traffic almost as well as the locals.

[janner]

Originally Posted by Medulla

PS while in Greece I rented a lil' 125 scoot for a couple of days & rode completely ATGATT-free. .

Personaly, I would not choose Greece to be a good example of European road and safety standards especialy if you can ride completely atgatt free with no helmet..........

[gfspencer]

Originally Posted by AKDuc

I think all the countries over there require riders to go through a tiered licensing program. Riders have to earn, prove, and pay their way onto more powerful bikes.

I think that's the key to better European Riders. They have to work to get a more powerful bike. Here a kid can buy a super bike one day and be out riding it the next. Or some old guy can chunk down a deposit and ride away on a big cruiser. Not a good idea.

[wide open]

Originally Posted by AKDuc

Know what the average "life expectancy" of a new larger displacement Japanese sportbike is here in the U.S.? Somethin like 3 months!

Just curious - is that statistic published somewhere?

[Cooltours]

This observation is correct only in southern country's, such as Italy, Greece, Spain. Central and northern Europeans usually have AGATT. Most of course, exceptions on each side of the pond.
Making a conclusion and saying that these guy's are better riders is of course ridiculous. Just check figures at insurance company’s. They enormous problems in these country’s with terrible accidents. Costs for insurances climb and won’t stop to climb. How ever, ppl can not be convinced of wearing AGATT because of two reasons:

1. Trafficproblems in these areas are huge and using a scooter is almost in all of these places best and fastest possible way to get to work and back. Wearing riding gear is simply not a realistic, pracitcable solution for most of them. Too complicate to handle, too many restrictions, just too less flexibility.
2. Southern Europeans are completely different to central or north Europeans; They are full of pride and some kind of a weird self-confidence. In combination with some kind of a natural naivety, many of them just really believe, that they are good enough riders to be prevented of any kind of accident.

I’ve seen dozens of bloody cases proving the opposite in southern country’s (but not only one in central and northern Europe so far).

How ever: Are European riders better riders? Fuck yeah! Sure we are!

[capriccio]

Originally Posted by Cooltours

This observation is correct only in southern country's, such as Italy, Greece, Spain. Central and northern Europeans usually have AGATT. Most of course, exceptions on each side of the pond.
Making a conclusion and saying that these guy's are better riders is of course ridiculous. Just check figures at insurance company’s. They enormous problems in these country’s with terrible accidents. Costs for insurances climb and won’t stop to climb. How ever, ppl can not be convinced of wearing AGATT because of two reasons:

1. Southern Europeans are completely different to central or north Europeans; They are full of pride and some kind of a weird self-confidence. In combination with some kind of a natural naivety, many of them just really believe, that they are good enough riders to be prevented of any kind of accident.

I’ve seen dozens of bloody cases proving the opposite in southern country’s (but not only one in central and northern Europe so far).

How ever: Are European riders better riders? Fuck yeah! Sure we are!

The reason the Southern Europeans are better is because their civilizations are much older. Why, it seems it wasnt too long ago that the Northen Europeans or what we called barberians were our slaves, washing our feet.So tell me again who is fool of some kind of wierd pride, Mr.wipe.

[g®eg]

sure they are.
just like European drivers are better.

(speaking in general terms of course)