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Old 09-15-2011, 02:45 AM   #376
Skippii
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How do the low-strength, removable threadlockers compare to things like Fixodent and other denture adhesives?
Because Fixodent--and especially the generic brands--are MUCH cheaper.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:23 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Skippii View Post
How do the low-strength, removable threadlockers compare to things like Fixodent and other denture adhesives?
Because Fixodent--and especially the generic brands--are MUCH cheaper.
Well Skippii each product has it's own unique set of features and benefits.

That's a rather tough question you've presented to the board this morning. I only use the cheap out-of-date stuff that's been marked down at the Dollar General, but it has a nice refreshing minty flavor, very likely has an FDA approval for internal use and will stick to wet surfaces. The product was designed for use at body temperatures and has an element of squishyness to it. And like you mentioned, it's cheap.

Threadlockers on the other hand cost much more, have a nice purple or blue, don't play well inside the human body, and keep our toys from leaving us stranded 40 miles from nowhere.

Peace Love and Glue,

Dirty
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Old 09-15-2011, 09:42 AM   #378
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I have two small screws "inside" my carb that attach the lift linkage to the throttle valve and they keep backing themselves out causing issues. Can I loctite those suckers in there where they are in contact with fuel?
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:06 AM   #379
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I have two small screws "inside" my carb that attach the lift linkage to the throttle valve and they keep backing themselves out causing issues. Can I loctite those suckers in there where they are in contact with fuel?
A purple low-strength 222MS will work just fine and is fuel safe.

Loctite pn. 21463, 10ml bottle

Make sure parts are clean and dry before you apply the product. Let sit overnight before reving her back up and you'll be ace.

If it's a blind hole apply the material to the hole, if it's not, apply to the male threads.

Dirty
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:33 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez View Post
A purple low-strength 222MS will work just fine and is fuel safe.

Loctite pn. 21463, 10ml bottle

Make sure parts are clean and dry before you apply the product. Let sit overnight before reving her back up and you'll be ace.

If it's a blind hole apply the material to the hole, if it's not, apply to the male threads.

Dirty
Thanks Mate. It's been an ongoing headache I'd like to not worry about anymore.
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:12 AM   #381
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Thanks Mate. It's been an ongoing headache I'd like to not worry about anymore.
No need to fret or worry...be happy

Dirty
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:19 AM   #382
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OK, I also have a sticky stuff question.

I have a DR-Z lower triple clamp, and a SV steering stem. At the location where the stem fits into the triple, the SV steering stem has a diameter which is 0,15mm (0.006") smaller than the DR-Z stem. Result: the fit is loose.

Now, since the mismatch is only 0,15mm, which translates to a gap of 0,075mm/0.003" between steering stem and the bore in the triple, I expect that this can be solved with a cylindrical retaining compound such as Loctite 603. Shear strength with 603 would be over 60kN, so that's plenty (mating surface triple<->stem is a cylinder 30mm/1.2" in diameter, 40mm/1.6" tall). It took less than 30kN to press the SV steering stem out of the triple.

But shear strength is not the only variable. There is quite a bit of force which tries to tilt the steering stem in the bore, trying to fracture or displace the retaining compound.

What retaining compound would one recommend for this application?
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:01 AM   #383
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DaBit- I'm not surprised at all by the relatively low force required to remove the bearing from the shaft. All this tells us is the assembly wasn't built using a machinery adhesive. If it were, the removal forces would likely be more than double, possibly approaching three times the force you witnessed.

603 would be a fine choice, it's relatively high in viscosity, the specs say it'll cure through twice the gap you mentioned, and it's oil tolerant...meaning it works well on less than perfectly clean surfaces.

So, the question now is how do we maintain one centerline and parallelism between the stem and inner diameter of the bearing.

Shim stock.

I've used sliced up aluminum cans before, but in your case you already know the OD of the stem and the ID of the bearing. Mentioned a .003" gap all the way around, so, you'll need 4 pieces of 0.003" shim stock the height of the bearing roughly 0.25" wide. They should be positioned every 90 degrees around the stem...the 603 will support them.

Realizing hot parts expand, place the cleaned and degreased bearing in a toaster oven at 200 - 250F for 30 to 45 minutes to allow the part to expand.

While the bearing is heating, plan and practice positioning the shimstock around the stem. Use the tackiness of the 603 to hold the shimstock in place.

With a hot bearing slide it onto the stem, and over the shimstock. A continuous bead of 603 the height of the bearing should be on the stem.

Since the entire mating surface is supported by the 603, this is actually a very strong bearing fit-much stronger than the bearing fit from the factory. You're making it better, not worse, so there's no need to fret or worry.

The leading edge of the ID of the bearing should have a chamfer, so it shouldn't push too badly on the cut edge of the shim stock, but if it does, try removing the burred leading edge on the shim.

Dry fitting to allow you to practice reassembling your parts might prove to be wise and prudent.

This repair is what we call a Loctite Sandwich in industry and is a more common repair practice than most folks realize.

Dirty




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Originally Posted by DaBit View Post
OK, I also have a sticky stuff question.

I have a DR-Z lower triple clamp, and a SV steering stem. At the location where the stem fits into the triple, the SV steering stem has a diameter which is 0,15mm (0.006") smaller than the DR-Z stem. Result: the fit is loose.

Now, since the mismatch is only 0,15mm, which translates to a gap of 0,075mm/0.003" between steering stem and the bore in the triple, I expect that this can be solved with a cylindrical retaining compound such as Loctite 603. Shear strength with 603 would be over 60kN, so that's plenty (mating surface triple<->stem is a cylinder 30mm/1.2" in diameter, 40mm/1.6" tall). It took less than 30kN to press the SV steering stem out of the triple.

But shear strength is not the only variable. There is quite a bit of force which tries to tilt the steering stem in the bore, trying to fracture or displace the retaining compound.

What retaining compound would one recommend for this application?
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Old 09-20-2011, 08:08 AM   #384
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Rather than go through all that, I'd just assemble the triple clamps to the fork legs and then put the Loctited stem in place and install the top nut. Everything will align itself.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:40 AM   #385
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Dirty_sanchez,

Thanks for the elaborate answer. I kept a few details from the entire story since it was not important for the question itself and would only add confusion.

The fact is: The SV stem was a tad too short. How much? This much (about 12mm/0.5"):


The usual and probably best solution would be to create a new steering stem on a lathe. I don't own one, don't know how to operate one, and I have already asked a lot from the guy who usually does that kind of work for me.

So, since I had two otherwise useless steering stems (size SV/'too short' and size DR-Z/'requires specialty bearings'), I decided trying to combine them by cutting a small length from the DR-Z stem and weld it to the SV-stem. I took great care to prevent warping, and it has payed off. I don't own a dial gauge, but a mirror is also quite able to detect warping. I didn't find any with the look-at-the-gap-in-the-mirror-while-rotating method, so for practical purposes it's straight enough.



Centering and keeping the two stem parts in line was done by locating them into the actual triples, mounted on the actual forks. I was lucky that the 'thick' part at the bottom of the SV stem, the part which usually resides outside or flush with the bottom of the triple, was a light press fit into the triple bore. This made centering it a breeze.

So, now I have a stem of which the lower part (DRZ stem+few millimeters of SV-stem) is a press fit into the triple bore and the upper part is not. Thus centering the stem into the lower triple is not a problem.

I prefer to not glue the bottom bearing to the triple or steering stem unless there is a very good reason to do so. Sooner or later, that bearing will need replacement. And when that bearing is glued with 603 or a similar strength compound, I will definitely have a hard time removing it...

Also, I indeed prefer to mount everything in it's normal position while the retaining compound is curing. I might prefer a slower curing compound, although chilling the triple, stem and 603 before mounting everything up might work as well (and it eases mounting of the bottom bearing).

For better understanding the question still remains: datasheets provide information about loading the cured compound in shear. But what about loading the retaining compound in compression? Will it fracture? Will it creep?

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Old 09-26-2011, 01:51 PM   #386
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Loctite is Hard to Find...

Dirty,

How come Loctite is so hard to find, but Permatex is on every street corner? Do any of the inmate vendor companies sell Loctite 243? Online vendors are all out.

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Old 09-26-2011, 02:01 PM   #387
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Dirty,

How come Loctite is so hard to find, but Permatex is on every street corner? Do any of the inmate vendor companies sell Loctite 243? Online vendors are all out.

Big_weight
Go to your local bearing service company. They carry everything you need.
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Old 09-26-2011, 06:27 PM   #388
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Go to your local bearing service company. They carry everything you need.
Yeah, you're looking in all of the wrong places. Permatex is mostly sold in automotive aftermarket venues like pepboys, autoshack, napa, etc.

Places like Motion Industries, Fastenal, Grainger, Applied Industrial Technologies, MSC, Barnes, RS Hughes, etc are all Industrial Distribution Partners. Vancouver, WA should have at least one of those folks in the area.

Dirty
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Old 11-13-2011, 02:34 PM   #389
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Hey Dirty Sanchez,

Somebody just gave me a bottle of Loctite 241 and the label on the bottle is all in German (I think).

The stuff is blue and looks about like 242 or 243. Is it pretty much the same stuff?

TIA-
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Old 11-13-2011, 03:24 PM   #390
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Hey Dirty Sanchez,

Somebody just gave me a bottle of Loctite 241 and the label on the bottle is all in German (I think).

The stuff is blue and looks about like 242 or 243. Is it pretty much the same stuff?

TIA-
I looked it up and it most closely matches 242...a blue removable medium strength threadlocker.

243 is more royal blue than the others, is removable, medium strength, cures on lightly oily nuts and bolts, cures on non-ferrous metals without the use of a primer (surface insensitive), is good to 360F, and doesn't need to be shaken up before use.

Since it's from Germany, it'll only work on BMW's and some KTM's, use with extreme caution if you use it on one of those Brit or Jap bikes.

I have that very same issue of Time Magazine you have listed as your avatar.

Dirty
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