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Old 09-18-2007, 08:40 PM   #61
kdscoates
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flux_capacitor
As of right now, no there will not be a FBA4. I want to run the good stuff too bad, and I can't be responsible for 20 riders going through it. Hell, we all went through Canada Creek last time!

oh no what will we do
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:05 PM   #62
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Hi Guys,
Sorry for your troubles. If I had been able to get Sunday off as well as Saturday I would have been there with you.
Who woulda thought that the Canada Creek road was off limits? I always thought it was a little wierd that the trail was available to ride on--it is kind of rough for a FS road. I guess that everything off the gravel roads is strictly verboten.
If you look at the maps of N. GA there are many roads that used to go through that have a section taken out: usually for the Appalacian Trail Corridor. After watching the Feds take over the Cuyahoga River Valley south of Cleveland in Ohio, this seems to be standard practice. When the land goes from private ownership to USFS management they tend to cut out through roads--even though they still turn up on the maps. When you get to the tank traps and see trees planted in the road you usually know what is up. There is none of this on Canada Creek, which is strange. I always thought they were throwing us a bone.
Dualsporters are usually not a problem if they are street legal. The ATVers (hunters) show up this time of year in force which is probably who they were looking for. The fact that they are not street legal is used as a method to control them. We were riding back to Suches on FS42 on Saturday, and there were so many pickups up there that I thought I must be riding on Rt60......It is all about the numbers--4 LEO's on a Sunday is not cheap. Until the hunters go home we can look forward to a lot of enforcement--Remember when we all got stopped last year during turkey season? Look at what the numbers have done to Deals Gap--11 LEO's in 4 miles. Maybe I should be happy to have my days off during the week.
I have been riding offroad for 35 years. It has always been about stealth. Quiet bikes and not riding through the same area twice are always a good idea. Small groups are also a good idea so probably no FBA's. Hopefully you guys will not give up on offroading--I had a great time out in Moab and Durango. There are other places to ride than Suches.
I wish you guys luck in whatever you do.
Doug
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:06 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdscoates
oh no what will we do

FBA4 Flux goes to Hatfield Mccoy
FBA5 Flux goes to Baja
FBA6 Flux goes to Moab

Seriously flux, that's a nice trailer set up you have. I think we need to make better use of it.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:51 PM   #64
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Just checked in ans saw this tale of woe for you guys... sorry it happened and I would have thought they would have cut you some slack as there is no gate or signs on either end saying Canada Creek is closed to vehicles.

I won't ride around a closed gate, or past a posted sign, or over a hump if it appears that the road is truly not legal to ride on. But I have always thought there would be a little grace for riding where they was no such indication that the road/trail was off limits. That's the purpose of riding a legal dual sport rather than a true dirt bike. Certainly will make me think about where I ride.

And if it had happened to me I would probably talk to the head ranger or whoever was the authority and explain my position... legal bike trying to ride legal roads, don't ride behind gates, etc. and see if they might be reasonable and get some kind of deal before it goes to court. I probably would not go to court if this didn't work and would pay my fine and be done with it.

Having said that, I'm not ready to give up my dirt bike. There are still some great places to ride that are even more challanging than Canada Creek.

Head up to Oakey Mountain, pay your $5 and ride through to Moats Knob for example. Really steep, reasonable tight (not single track though) lot's of fun, 100% legal and funded by your tax dollars.

Take a trip to Caney Fork in NC or Tellico or Coal Creek in TN, or Hatfield & McCoy in West Virginia for days and days of hard core off road.

Join SETRA and run the enduro or hare scramble schedule if you want to test your hard core gnarly skill to the max. These guys live to throw down a ride that will get your heart pumping and it's a 100% legal adrenalin rush that you have to experience.

The Gobbler Getter national enduro in Maplesvile AL is coming up on November 4th in Maplesville AL. Test your skills against some really hard core trails and riders.

http://www.setra.org/PDF/07-08%20Fly...erGetter07.pdf


Hare Scrambles are running somewhere ever weekend!

You can go either way... sell the dirt bike and buy a Harley, buy a 300cc fire breathing 2-stroke KTM and a trailer, or anything in between. It's all good! I, for one will not be giving up my dirt bikes. I will continue to seek out the best legal off road fun I can find, respect the land, pack it in, pack it out, and do what I can to keep existing areas open.

Right now I'm getting ready to head up to NC for the KLR Tour de Pisgah II this weekend... planning to ride 21 miles of trails in the Roy A Taylor ATV area of the Wayehutta area Friday...

http://www.cs.unca.edu/nfsnc/recreation/tayloratv.pdf

and what promises to be a good day of NC FS roads and trails Saturday.

Be safe, and have fun! Sorry you guys had problems.
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Old 09-18-2007, 11:32 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaThumper
And if it had happened to me I would probably talk to the head ranger or whoever was the authority and explain my position... legal bike trying to ride legal roads, don't ride behind gates, etc. and see if they might be reasonable and get some kind of deal before it goes to court. I probably would not go to court if this didn't work and would pay my fine and be done with it.

Having said that, I'm not ready to give up my dirt bike. There are still some great places to ride that are even more challanging than Canada Creek.
This is exactly what I meant when I posted to ask the Judge/ Magistrate for mercy.

I wouldn't go to court if I could avoid it!!!
Bad things seem to happen there

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Old 09-19-2007, 05:38 AM   #66
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DOGs,

Been following this thread with much interest since I spend a lot of my free time riding in these areas. This situation sounds similar to others that have occured across the country where LEOs have over stepped their authority or misinterpreted laws/reulations. Are any of the ticketed riders members of the AMA? If so then the AMA has a legal department that can be an excellent source of iniformation and support. In the last year the AMA has been successful in many cases that would negatively impact motorcyclists if left unchecked. See here -

http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/resources.asp

Any of the ticketed riders members of GARTRA, NOHVCC, Blue Ribbon Coalition? If so then take advantage of your membership dues and contact them for information and assistance.

It does seem like this would be a good opportunity to improve the "system" whether that means better signage by the feds, correct interpretation and enforcement of existing laws, or simply a better understanding by users.

Remember, these are public lands, and the last time I checked we were are all members of the public. If you work and pay taxes then you've paid for a portion of that land.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:24 AM   #67
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I would NEVER ask anyone to do anything I would not do myself. I understand going out and getting an attorney can be expensive and I doubt I would/could do that myself. But in turn if I am wronged I am not going to roll over and just take it. As for the ticketing, I do not have a dog in this hunt but it directly effects me. I was on that very road/trail on Saturday, it gets under my skin that I could be in the same boat as the others.

Charlene and I have been doing dirt, gravel and unimproved roads all over Georgia/NC/Tennessee the last couple of months and we do our absolute best to stay within the law. If you want to keep me off a road a .99 cent NO TRESPASSING sign will do it! Unless the road is marked I figure it's fair game as would 99% of everyone else here. This is not a pig path/trail folks! I have explored hundreds of these roads over the years without incident. I have found primitive roads that go no where, driveways, cut throughs to private property, short cuts to improved roads and I have even found myself on the wrong side of a closed gate or two! And when that happens I'll go back where I came from even though I can get around the gate and get on a proper FS Road.

I try to stay within the confines of the law and even use common sense once in awhile! I leave the 2 stroke at home unless I am at a OHV Park as it can be offensive, I stop for horses, hikers and cars when I am on gravel and I wave at police/rangers, most are just doing their jobs. Knowing this I EXPECT the same treatment in return.


This is why I am using XTPhreaks methods. I have a couple of emails out and I am trying to get in touch with the head ranger for the State of Georgia. I am also crafting a letter for my senator, representatives and I am looking for the head of any sub-committee that might oversee the BLM. I am not going to turn into a Rosa Parks here but I want a clarification on this issue. And if anyone chooses to go to court, I'll pony up some bucks and take the time off and go to court too. I am an ex-police officer and doubt I carry any weight other than my own ample ass but I'll try.


A friend of mine had another question,,,,,,,,,,,,, what were the state guys doing on Federal BLM land??? I mean, they do not jurisdiction there? Is there state land up there? Why do the state guys get to ride four wheelers that are not street legal across Federal BLM land?
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:43 AM   #68
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hey flux....ya know ive been thinking and some of the guys are right, fba 4 5 6 and seven, make them a week vacation and lets ride tellico, i still havent been to hatfield or duramtown, and colorado, lots of places, justmore reason for taking more vacations.

jet dc. prolly good you werent there. did you get my pm? you should read it. its not about being stealth. you just shouldnt be on the trails that are closed, period. there closed for a reason (most of the time) 35 years or not, no metter how "stealth" you are closed is closed.

thumper...all valid pointsandi couldnt agree with you more.
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Old 09-19-2007, 10:54 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaelicDog

A friend of mine had another question,,,,,,,,,,,,, what were the state guys doing on Federal BLM land??? I mean, they do not jurisdiction there? Is there state land up there? Why do the state guys get to ride four wheelers that are not street legal across Federal BLM land?
Our National Forests are under the jurisdiction of USDA Foresty Service, BLM isn't going to care about this.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:03 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beefjerky
Selling bikes? Settle down Beavis. WTF are you guys thinking?.........

First off...

It's a $75 bullshit ticket. Yes, it carries a max penalty of 6 months, yadda yadda. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure ALL traffic violations are misdemeanors which could carry up to a year in the pokey. If you get a speeding ticket, they can haul your ass to jail and impound your car too. The reality is that there's no point in doing it 99% of the time. They are not going to put you in prison for riding a fucking dirtbike. ( unless you fuck with them a bunch )

List? I seriously doubt that there is a secret list of dirtbikers who have ridden out of bounds. They might fuck with you a bunch if a similar conviction shows up on your criminal history, but I doubt you'll do prison time for accidently getting lost in the woods again. I would not recommend getting caught by the same guy and/or the same spot again though. I'd find out if the offense is going to show as a criminal conviction. I doubt it would, but it might be worth checking to be sure. If not, then who cares? It's not a big deal.


And don't forget, there are plenty of places to ride besides suches.
We are on the same page Beefjerky.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:04 AM   #71
GA. DUALSPORT WANTAB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beefjerky
FBA4 Flux goes to Hatfield Mccoy
FBA5 Flux goes to Baja
FBA6 Flux goes to Moab

Seriously flux, that's a nice trailer set up you have. I think we need to make better use of it.
+ one!
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:29 AM   #72
GaelicDog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaM
Our National Forests are under the jurisdiction of USDA Foresty Service, BLM isn't going to care about this.
That was throwing me a curve too as someone mentioned the ranger told them it was BLM land????????
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:57 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaelicDog
That was throwing me a curve too as someone mentioned the ranger told them it was BLM land????????
Pretty sure there is no land managed by BLM in Ga. There's some along the coasts of FL, AL, LA.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:19 PM   #74
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if it was me

and it ain't but still my bidness 'cause I rides in the woods too

I wonder if they maybe showed you a map that denoted the area as CLOSED?

Can the local Forestry/BLM/State ranger station show you a map denoting that as CLOSED?

I've had wildlife officers tell me I was in a closed area while in the boat, showed them on the GPS & chart that I wasn't, and they tell me the GPS & chart are wrong, that THEY know I was in the wrong area.

point being, THEY were wrong, but wouldn't admit it.

go ask at the ranger station

go ask the regional ranger station

don't tell 'em you got ticketed, ask for a map of that area showing what's open & what's closed.

you got pics of the location

what if you are handed a map that shows Canada Creek as OPEN?

THEN I'd be in court with all y'all as witnesses and 8 X 10 pictures with circles and arrows on the back and a GPS track.

just because they're cops (kinda) doen't mean they're automatically right.

research


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SENT TO

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Sir (or Madam)

If I am riding on a paved state road, turn onto a graveled road which leads past private homes to a fork, one side of which is clearly blocked, i.e. vehicle trap dug & earthen barrier.
The other fork has a gate which is unposted, but OPEN & UNLOCKED.

Can I assume that the second road is indeed open to public traffic and not CLOSED?

How can I avoid violating regulations in an instance such as this?

I ride a street legal, tagged, registered, insured dual-sport motorcycle with spark arrester muffler and all equipment necessary to ride on any public road.

I am a licensed motor vehicle operator.

Are there specific maps that I can obtain which show what roads/trails are OPEN and what roads/trails are CLOSED?

Specifically I am curious about the area near Suches, GA between Gaddistown Road and Hywy 60.


Thank you in advance for your assistance.


**********************************


we'll see what they answer, again if/when they do I'll post it here
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xtphreak screwed with this post 09-19-2007 at 04:05 PM
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:54 PM   #75
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The List !

I have friends that were riding just ahead of me and were stopped on the Blue Ridge Parkway and were given a citation and the speach about the list.
When I pulled in behind the ranger I was told to move along or I would be charged with interfering with an officer. My buddies chose to contact a lawyer and were told by the lawyer that indeed there is a federal law enforcement database that does list individuals and denotes their transgressions. I for one wouldn't want to have federal rangers catch me a second time for anything. Lawyers aren't cheap and I sure wouldn't want to deal with a wrecker yard worker over the storage fees and towing charges.

This whole incident on Canada Creek Road is unfortunate and I would imagine that this is just the beginning of things to come for off-roaders on public lands. I hate to think that I have to go to Wissenhunt or Tellico ORV to enjoy a day out in the woods on my DR650. I won't do it! Those places are pretty worn out and covered up with wild ass people. And driving 30 hours to Utah or Colorado once a year ain't gonna cut it for me either. I'll just go back to riding the street if I'm stuck riding Coopers Creek Road and Duncan Ridge Road endlessly. Maybe we should get a group for an outing to Highland Park soon?
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