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Old 09-24-2007, 05:36 AM   #1
bomberdave OP
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will 440 volt motor run on 220?

any harm in trying?

i have a guy telling me he ran a 440 volt machine for years on 220, no noticable problems. obviously not an optimal situation but ...potentially harmful or dangerous in anyway?
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Old 09-24-2007, 06:42 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberdave
any harm in trying?

i have a guy telling me he ran a 440 volt machine for years on 220, no noticable problems. obviously not an optimal situation but ...potentially harmful or dangerous in anyway?
What kind of "machine"?

Some motors I have seen have a separate hookup for 110/220v that require resetting jumpers. But that is not "running" a 220v motor on 110V.
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Old 09-24-2007, 06:56 AM   #3
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How many hp?

Single phase or 3 phase, most 220V is single phase, is the 440V motor single phase also? It is unlikely that a 3 phase motor will run with 220V single phase unless you build a setup with a transformer and an inductor.

Assuming single phase then, 440V usually means thinner wires and better insulation so putting 220V into that scenario should not cause any danger unless we are talking about an elevator etc. where the loss of power would have serious effects.

What type of machine are you trying to power?


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Old 09-24-2007, 07:01 AM   #4
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Never saw 440 single phase.
Most three phase motors 440/220, and ya doubles amps.
OTOH a shop wouldn't.
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Old 09-24-2007, 07:30 AM   #5
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They make step up transformers to make 440 from 220. Then you need the rotary phase convertor to make the 3 phase that it will be. There are VFD's that can make the 3 phase and give you speed control as well.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:13 PM   #6
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I wouldn't advise it to be honest, and I've never heard of a 440v electric anything.

industrial 480Vac is 3 lines of 277 vac at different phases, you measure 480v-rms difference of potential between the phases. This difference of potential is how you derive the power

Household 220 is 2 lines of standard 110 wall power at different phases

Now.. there are some european style devices that make thier way into the US. Euro 220 is in fact a single phase

but back to your question, if you have a US standard 480 three phase motor, disregarding what configuration the motor is set for (Delta / Wye or 5 / 4wire ) you are more likely to catch something ablaze at the worst... throw a breaker in the least or more than likely the thing would just sit there and hum at you while connected to 2 phase 220

I'd really need more info on what you are trying to accomplish, but ignoring specs in regards to electricity usually leads to very bad things
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:26 AM   #7
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My Oliver lathe is 440 3 phase. I wired my shop to run on 3 phase by building a phase converter (which actually was pretty simple and inexpensive, especially if you have more than one machine.) I used the panel from this guy (http://www.andersonconverters.com/), and then added a 10 HP 3 phase motor I picked up at an air compressor service joint for 100 clams.

You can buy a step up transformer to go from 220v to 440V and these can be found at electrical supply houses or surplus. Most of the transformers you see are huge monsters, which would probably be too much. Every 440 v motor I have seen is 3 phase, so I would assume yours is too. You'll need to convert from 220 single phase to 220 three phase and then step it up.

The pervious post about VFD is ideal especially is you are looking at low horsepower applications. My wood shop runs 7.5 HP 3 phase motors so the idea of a VFD was out, too expensive.

Any chance you could swap out the motor? You'd probably be well ahead of the game, or getting it rewound is another option to consider if it is direct crive.
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:40 PM   #8
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like he said. "single phasing" a 480v motor will not make much more than a hum or fire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QQ noob
I wouldn't advise it to be honest, and I've never heard of a 440v electric anything.

industrial 480Vac is 3 lines of 277 vac at different phases, you measure 480v-rms difference of potential between the phases. This difference of potential is how you derive the power

Household 220 is 2 lines of standard 110 wall power at different phases

Now.. there are some european style devices that make thier way into the US. Euro 220 is in fact a single phase

but back to your question, if you have a US standard 480 three phase motor, disregarding what configuration the motor is set for (Delta / Wye or 5 / 4wire ) you are more likely to catch something ablaze at the worst... throw a breaker in the least or more than likely the thing would just sit there and hum at you while connected to 2 phase 220

I'd really need more info on what you are trying to accomplish, but ignoring specs in regards to electricity usually leads to very bad things
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loadedagain
like he said. "single phasing" a 480v motor will not make much more than a hum or fire.
yep, probably one or the other. Large 480v roof top AC units without phase protection will lose motors and compressors when the power company "drops a leg" and single phases. Not all the time but it is pretty common. We had 1 of 4 die a couple of months ago due to a utility problem. New compressor too.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC950
yep, probably one or the other. Large 480v roof top AC units without phase protection will lose motors and compressors when the power company "drops a leg" and single phases. Not all the time but it is pretty common. We had 1 of 4 die a couple of months ago due to a utility problem. New compressor too.
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:05 PM   #11
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Not that I am adding to this conversation... but I did some google-ing and found that several shop type machines use 3 phase 440. (I said I never heard of it before) Also in the same articles I read some machines used three phase 220.

The big key is "3 phase" once you have it you can step it up or down, anything you want. Sailah gave a good example of what you would need to do if you don't have 3 phase service. Just don't confuse household/garage 220 (2 phase) with industrial 3 phase 220, which is stepped down 480.

Funny side note, I helped one of my buddies move into his new home this weekend. He called me last night and was griping about his bad luck. His dryer supposedly didn't survive the move, he bought a new one, it didn't work either... Both would spin but neither would heat up... I jammed my fluke dvm into his 220 outlet and read 0 volts. Problem solved, the plug was wired with the same leg of 115. Quick trip to the breaker box and ten minutes later I'm drinking his beer on the back porch waiting on his wife to finish dinner
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:59 PM   #12
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you guys are taking this too far --he had a 3-phase motor--which could be wired for 208- 240(low voltage) or 460 (high voltage) he probably read part of the name plate and saw 460 ---most 3 phase motors can be wired for either voltage
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Old 09-25-2007, 03:42 PM   #13
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Take the cover off the wire box on motor. More than 3 wires, you have a pretty good chance you can wire it to low voltage. You'll still need to 3 phase it though.
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Old 09-26-2007, 03:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberdave
any harm in trying?

i have a guy telling me he ran a 440 volt machine for years on 220, no noticable problems.
I am an electrician and I call BS, aint gonna happen. Did he mention how he got it rotating to begin with?
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Old 09-26-2007, 03:59 PM   #15
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440 is the nominal voltage...........

ya know it used to be 110.... then the power companies upped it to 115, and now 120 .........

for the higer voltage stuff it was 440 - 460 - 480............ might just mean it's an older motor.

Oh and ya..... BS on the whole 220 running a 440 motor.



220..... 221 whatever it takes..................
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