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Old 01-31-2013, 05:21 AM   #3256
Lenz1
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TT350 electrics

I've got the engine running - nice crackle to the Staintune exhaust.

The wiring setup is interesting to say the least.

There's 3 main output leads off the magneto: brown runs the ignition (unregulated 12+voltsAC), yellow into yellow/red runs the headlight and tailight (regulated up to 13.8volts AC) and white which runs brake lights, indicators and horn.

This white lead shows an unregulated 18 - 24 volts AC at ~ 3000 - 4000 rpm and is only voltage regulated when the head / tail light circuit is off due to the light switch setup. This sometimes "voltage-tamed" white lead is connected to a basic diode - white in, red out. This appears to be a rough as guts way to produce something that passes for 6 volt DC but it's no wonder the little 6V batteries and light bulbs have a high failure rate given the variation in voltage on the input side of the diode.

The white and yellow/red won't share the std voltage regulator at the same time ie don't like to be joined so I'm gonna add another basic 12V AC regulator to the white lead circuit. At this stage I'm not convinced that a rectifier or 12V DC is necessary Can anyone tell me how 12V DC indicator sender units and 12V DC horns go on AC.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:36 PM   #3257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenz1 View Post
Can anyone tell me how 12V DC indicator sender units and 12V DC horns go on AC.
I just looked at my horn a few days ago wondering what the little black box right before the horn was. My best guess without bothing to actually check anything was that it was a bridge rectifier.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:10 PM   #3258
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Originally Posted by Lenz1 View Post
The diaphram in my secondary carbie looks much the same as these pics. If there are no cracked / perished crease-lines or pin holes visible when the part is held up to bright sunlight or alternative bright light then I guess there's a fair chance it's serviceable.
Thanks.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:22 AM   #3259
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Originally Posted by Skippii View Post
I just looked at my horn a few days ago wondering what the little black box right before the horn was. My best guess without bothing to actually check anything was that it was a bridge rectifier.
Hmm, uphill battle here as the TT350 in that form was never sold in the US. But, the XT350 was sold in the US, and is somewhat similar. XT350s have two distinct electrical circuits (the AUS TT may be like this also, but I have no idea), one AC, and one DC. The AC circuit runs the ignition, the headlight, and the instrument cluster lights. The DC circuit contains a voltage regulator/rectifier, a battery, and runs the tail light, brake light, blinkers, and horn. I believe the box mounted to the frame just before the horn on the XT is a capacitor. This is my recollection from the last time I looked into it. The horn cannot be powered from an AC circuit because it works with the engine off.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:49 AM   #3260
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The TT350 (Aus) I'm playing with runs the headlight and tail light off the yellow / red 12v AC lead (regulated to 12V) and the indicators, brake light and horn off a DC circuit. This DC circuit starts out as a white lead off the magneto that produces 19V AC or greater. There's no bridging of the top and bottom of the AC cycle just a basic diode that only picks up the "top" of the AC wave and produces half the input AC voltage as a semi-smoothed DC wave.

I've amended the original switches so that the yellow / red now only runs the headlight (low only at the LO position with High and Low beam both operating in the HI position), taillight now runs constantly from the white lead along with indicators, brake light and horn .... thats the plan anyway

We'll see how a 12V DC indicator sender and a 12V DC horn deal with elevated AC voltages. The 12V DC tail light bulb seems to be handling it ok.

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Old 02-05-2013, 10:00 AM   #3261
Earthscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenz1 View Post
The TT350 (Aus) I'm playing with runs the headlight and tail light off the yellow / red 12v AC lead (regulated to 12V) and the indicators, brake light and horn off a DC circuit. This DC circuit starts out as a white lead off the magneto that produces 19V AC or greater. There's no bridging of the top and bottom of the AC cycle just a basic diode that only picks up the "top" of the AC wave and produces half the input AC voltage as a semi-smoothed DC wave.

I've amended the original switches so that the yellow / red now only runs the headlight (low only at the LO position with High and Low beam both operating in the HI position), taillight now runs constantly from the white lead along with indicators, brake light and horn .... thats the plan anyway

We'll see how a 12V DC indicator sender and a 12V DC horn deal with elevated AC voltages. The 12V DC tail light bulb seems to be handling it ok.
Yeah, that's strange indeed. There is no battery in the system? I suppose the only reason for the small battery in the US XT350 is/was the various state law inspection requirements that say some of the equipment must operate with the engine off. Your horn must not work with the bike not running then, right? I looked back a bit in the thread because I thought you had described it earlier and I just don't remember - was this the way the bike was wired stock, or were you looking for that info a while back?
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:17 AM   #3262
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I believe the battery in a US XT350 is only there to supplement the stator output at low rpm. A US spec XT350 will run fine without a battery and all the equipment will work as long as the engine is at higher rpm. I ran mine no battery for a while and also with just a big capacitor wired in for the brake light when it didn't have signals.

The stator doesn't put out enough juice for those to operate correctly at idle. Without a battery at idle you might get a bit of brake light but the turn signal flasher won't work. You can swap in a 12v camcorder battery and everything will work fine at idle. I finally ran a tiny little lawn mower battery to operate the brake and signal lights.

The big Yuasa battery is extra tonnage they don't need.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:31 PM   #3263
Lenz1
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The TT I'm rebuilding has an interesting mix of voltages.

Power comes off the magneto in brown, yellow and white leads. The brown is completely unregulated AC that I've measured at over 60V AC ......one does not mess with a perfectly good ignition circuit - that's like jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft.

The yellow becomes yellow /red.(Y/R) It runs into the handlebar light switch and is linked to the voltage regulator when the lights are ON. Yellow / red and white are not joined however when the regulator is linked to Y/R, voltages in both Y/R and W are reduced typically to 12V AC in the Y/R and 20V AC in the White

This wiring strategy with the elevated voltage in the White allows the production of a crude form of Direct Current (DC), supposedly at 6V DC to power indicators, horn, brake lights, instrument lighting plus charge a small 6V lead-acid battery.

The only gain that I can see to using 6V is a very small cost saving on an electronic component (bridging rectifier for both sides of the AC wave for 12V DC) and the reduced weight / size of a 6V battery.

I'm gonna see how the lights etc behave on 12V+ AC around town / in traffic before going to Plan H - creating a 12V DC circuit with battery off the White circuit.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:46 AM   #3264
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The light switch now runs hi and lo beams in the hi position, bridge rectifier on the white circuit will provide 12V DC - 20VDC for tailight, brake light, indicators and horn. A capacitor will also reside in the DC circuit to smooth the wave and provide low rev power.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:04 PM   #3265
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Is someone here running a Vapor dash? I've been thinking about getting one and relocating a different key switch to the side of the headlight as some of the DRZ guys.

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Old 02-11-2013, 02:40 PM   #3266
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Originally Posted by hondaacclx84 View Post
Is someone here running a Vapor dash? I've been thinking about getting one and relocating a different key switch to the side of the headlight as some of the DRZ guys.
Yes, I do. I have the Vapor just in front of the key switch. The key switch is in its original location
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Old 02-17-2013, 05:23 AM   #3267
Lenz1
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Anyone tell me what's the rev limit on the XT350 / TT350 engines
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:00 PM   #3268
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Originally Posted by Lenz1 View Post
Anyone tell me what's the rev limit on the XT350 / TT350 engines
The Dyno says about 9,500rpm.
Power has dropped from about 22hp to 16 by then.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:13 PM   #3269
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so im lazy and i have turned up a few "repair" threads for intake boots. Im back in action with another non-road-legal xt350 (no title) boots are shot guys...whats best bet? Whos got em, and how much they gonna rake me for? lol Fill me in boys/gals! Cant wait to get the XT running beside my DR350! WOOOT!

yah, n/m.. Took this in on trade for a junker...well i think i got a junker too. HAHA. something drastically wrong in teh engine..it tries to turn, then stops and WONT budge..so...ill be tearing the old girl apart.. Lots of other care needed for the old girl. It does have a Clarke tank on it though, so thats a plus. everything eles is there..but in rough shape. Oh well, only time will tell! OH, one last thing, it IS missing the skid plate..bummer!

PS, its an 89.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:42 AM   #3270
Lenz1
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The Dyno says about 9,500rpm.
Power has dropped from about 22hp to 16 by then.
Thanks for that Nordie.

There's a blanked off drive point on the engine that I guess is the take off for a tachometer but I'm thinking of a Tiny Tach tacho / hourmeter to keep track of maintenance and upper rev limits. It's high revs that crack / destroy pistons. The Tiny tach is reliable, transferrable and very versatile (I used one to match the right propellor for best engine revs on my little fishing tinny)

I haven't had the opportunity to really wringe this thing's neck yet but short bursts of accel up the street ( just running it in officer) - have me VERY happy with how hard it drives in 3rd and 4th gear @ 14:50 gearing. At 14:52 like the 450 KTM's run standard, this thing would be seriously active in the dirt. Gearing is everything - so is a cylinder head with inlet ports that work well.

I got a lovely surprise this afternoon when attempting to drain the front forks - no drain points in the fork leg. So it's "off with yer legs" , tip them upside down, drain out that soft 10W oil, reassemble and fill each leg with ~ 550cc of 15W fork oil. Just the little surprise needed when the bike is to be inspected / certified tomorrow at 09:00hrs prior to road legal registration - also tomorrow.

I am looking forward to presenting the finished beast to the previous owner - my nephew - for a test ride (no 5th gear burnouts Andy please) and a comparision to the 2012 KTM 450 EXC "Six Day" he is using to currently stomp on his riding mates.

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