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Old 10-15-2007, 07:13 PM   #31
mxc300
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I would DEFINATELY sync the carbs before touching any jetting.
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Old 10-15-2007, 07:15 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTMJake
Is that the FCR settings, k2m?
If so, what is the fuel consumption now?
No Jake thats for the standard CVs.

I'm still collecting parts for the FCR project. Ken (PowerCell) was kind enough to PM me his jetting settings so I have a good base to begin. Also I was able to get the same K&N's and adaptors as Ken

I would really like to see a conclusion to this jetting saga as I could complete a promise I made to 950 owners, that I made when I introduced my self in Hotmail user groups. This is before we moved over to Adventure Rider. I said that I would use my wideband tuning- Fuel injection background to get this bike sorted. I knew bugger all about carburetors. I think I learnt a lot more than I taught

My last reading on fuel (GPS) gave me 18km per liter around town (42Lt for 760km) I carried extra fuel in my top box and ran it dry. 130km reserve with the rear tanks open.
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Old 10-15-2007, 07:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxc300
I would DEFINATELY sync the carbs before touching any jetting.
Agreed - I need to geta hold of my buddies nice vac. gauge set-up, and do it this weekend all at once...
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Old 10-15-2007, 07:29 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanny
Cool.

Ok - here's the only other question. Will the DNA plus Uni make a big difference in settings over the Stock + Uni? Remember - I want to run the DNA+Uni combo for a completely washable set-up.
.
The $64,000 question......... I don't know

There is only two ways to find out, but I don't want to buy one now with the FCR's so close.

It's interesting that my pre filter is different to the Uni. As I did mine first, I hunted round for a suitable size filter. Mine is of a KLR 650. This does not seem to matter. cmwoodys reports no difference between the two, paper and DNA.......... So........ Give it a go Flanny. Lead the way
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K2m screwed with this post 10-15-2007 at 07:34 PM
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Old 10-15-2007, 07:34 PM   #35
cpmodem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanny
See my previous post with some 'splainin'. I agree - the settings seem downright bizarre...but idle doesn't hang at all, and it idles quite nicely..

Most of th settings that have consensus are around either stock plus pre-filter, or DNA alone. There aren;t any settings in the matrix for both the DNA and the UNI together (I don;t think).

Another problem is that I don't have 100% confidence in the other attributes of the bike...Carb sync, valve clearances etc since I have not done those personally. Perhaps my AFR's are spot-on, and my somewhat unsatisfactory running conditions are due to other basics...it's hard to say without a Dyno or Wide-band.

All I know is that between 1/8-1/4 throttle at cruise and under slight load it doesn't run right, plus its hard to start when hot...could be jetting, could be an exhaust valve out of spec. Dunno...but it's been frustrating to say the least.

I could just give up on the DNA, and pop my stock filter back in there, crank out my IMS to 2.5 and move the needle to clip 3, and then have the same settings as everyone else...but...I really want to make the fully washable solution work if at all possible....
After reading your earlier post as you suggested, it makes a lot more sense. I have no experience with the DNA, but lots with K&Ns (not in the 950), so I can't help you there. Worthy goal though. Do you think you'll have to clean the DNA much with a pre-filter? I just put over 20k miles (3k offroad) on my uni/stock setup, and the paper filter is as pristine as brand new. I changed the pre every night (except one ) while riding offroad with my friends. One other question. Did your bike run OK with the uni + paper filter?
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DISCLAIMER: All observations made in this post are mine and based solely on my own anecdotal experiences, and may contain large doses of facetiousness. YMMV, of course. You are "on your own", and I take no responsibility if someone tries anything in this post and gets into trouble with the law, damages their person or property, or goes blind. Take everything you read or hear "anywhere" butt especially on the Web with a large dose of salt.

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Old 10-15-2007, 08:28 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmodem
After reading your earlier post as you suggested, it makes a lot more sense. I have no experience with the DNA, but lots with K&Ns (not in the 950), so I can't help you there. Worthy goal though. Do you think you'll have to clean the DNA much with a pre-filter? I just put over 20k miles (3k offroad) on my uni/stock setup, and the paper filter is as pristine as brand new. I changed the pre every night (except one ) while riding offroad with my friends. One other question. Did your bike run OK with the uni + paper filter?
I never tried the Paper + Uni. My goal all along was for the DNA+pre. The objective has been to have a fully cleanable set-up (almost never needing to clean the DNA as you've pointed out) that presents the least amount of unecessary incremental restriction (ie: the DNA +UNI should be significantly less restrictive overall than the Paper+UNI).

Problem is, I've never been good at differentiating a tad lean from a tad rich, and to this day experimenting and hunting for the solution even the bike half apart to ride around on is very, very time consuming. Considering the CV chrateristics and sensitivity to vaccum changes it's been a bear.

My theory so far is that the DNA presents less of a restriction overall than the Pre+paper. But, at high RPM, the "pinch point" will likely be the Pre-filter, and this will determine main jets. On the idle circuit, I suspect the DNA presents less signal (vaccum) to the fuel jets than the Paper+pre, making the idle circuit likely need to be richer than paper+pre. So, I should be fatter than everyone else (ie, smaller ACV jets for any given Pilot fuel jet), but that doesn't seem to be the case...My set-up seems to be calling for leaner than paper+pre.

On the needle it's anyone's guess. It's all very complicated, and without a wide-band, it's really just guess work...

Maybe I need to just stuff the paper filter in there, and just ride it like that until the snow flies!.....
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:19 PM   #37
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Wicked Inquiring minds want to know ...

Could there be another production from Flannywood in the works this winter?
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DISCLAIMER: All observations made in this post are mine and based solely on my own anecdotal experiences, and may contain large doses of facetiousness. YMMV, of course. You are "on your own", and I take no responsibility if someone tries anything in this post and gets into trouble with the law, damages their person or property, or goes blind. Take everything you read or hear "anywhere" butt especially on the Web with a large dose of salt.

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Old 10-16-2007, 01:21 AM   #38
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Out of interest, those people with "hot start" problems - what fuel pump are you using?

I have a wild theory that the facet pump puts out a bit too much pressure, I'm still waiting for some parts to arrive to make a jetted fuel return line to reduce the pressure to the carbs. I did buy a fuel regulator but it's too big to install on the bike - the chap that sold it to me said in general the fuel pressure going into the float valves only wants to be about 1 psi.

However, a thought just occurred to me - if, for example, the pump puts out 2 psi, does the fact that the fuel line splits in two mean that each carb will be getting 1 psi? Is that how it works?
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:43 AM   #39
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No, pressure does not split up, only the amount of fuel does.
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Old 10-16-2007, 05:01 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmodem
Could there be another production from Flannywood in the works this winter?

Not likely...The bike is almost perfect. I just need to add a few things for a trip I'll be doing next year...driving lights, and maybe an under-seat fuel tank..nothing really major...We'll see how deep the snow gets, and how bored I get with the long evenings!

Flannywood huh? I like it!
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Old 10-16-2007, 08:12 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uk_mouse
Out of interest, those people with "hot start" problems - what fuel pump are you using?

I have a wild theory that the facet pump puts out a bit too much pressure, I'm still waiting for some parts to arrive to make a jetted fuel return line to reduce the pressure to the carbs. I did buy a fuel regulator but it's too big to install on the bike - the chap that sold it to me said in general the fuel pressure going into the float valves only wants to be about 1 psi.

However, a thought just occurred to me - if, for example, the pump puts out 2 psi, does the fact that the fuel line splits in two mean that each carb will be getting 1 psi? Is that how it works?
I have not had any hot start problems with mine and the set up is per K2m's configuration.
Pressure is a constant.
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:45 AM   #42
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Flannywood in the GWN - "CVRD43 Carb Tuning: The Video"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanny
Not likely...The bike is almost perfect. I just need to add a few things for a trip I'll be doing next year...driving lights, and maybe an under-seat fuel tank..nothing really major...We'll see how deep the snow gets, and how bored I get with the long evenings!

Flannywood huh? I like it!
Well here's hopin' you have a long dark winter
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DISCLAIMER: All observations made in this post are mine and based solely on my own anecdotal experiences, and may contain large doses of facetiousness. YMMV, of course. You are "on your own", and I take no responsibility if someone tries anything in this post and gets into trouble with the law, damages their person or property, or goes blind. Take everything you read or hear "anywhere" butt especially on the Web with a large dose of salt.

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Old 10-16-2007, 10:14 AM   #43
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Thumb CM, H2W, K2m

This thread just gets better and better. Bravo men for your hard work and long hours, and for keeping your "students" informed.
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DISCLAIMER: All observations made in this post are mine and based solely on my own anecdotal experiences, and may contain large doses of facetiousness. YMMV, of course. You are "on your own", and I take no responsibility if someone tries anything in this post and gets into trouble with the law, damages their person or property, or goes blind. Take everything you read or hear "anywhere" butt especially on the Web with a large dose of salt.

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Old 10-16-2007, 04:43 PM   #44
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So CMWoody...

I'm intrigued...

I"m curious that the DNA filter alone requires one full step leaner Pilot Fuel Jet (42) versus your previous settings with DNA plus Uni Pre Filter (45) with the same needle position (3rd clip), and effectively the same Air Jet equation as accepted of 42/80/100??? (In fact I may remember that your idle circuit with DNA+UNI was 42/80/80 with the 45 Pilot Fuel and 3rd clip, which is richer still).

Every fibre of my being says that the addition of the Uni (on either a DNA or stock paper) would enrichen the mixture (more restrictive) by both making fuel jets more responsive and reducing available air. So...Paper and/or DNA plus Uni would require leaning thing out relative to paper or DNA alone....

Yet, you've gone to just the DNA and arrived at settings that are leaner that your previous settings with DNA+Paper (42 pilot versus 45 pilot).

The only thing that has been enrichened is the main jets...Could there possibly be that much overlap on the increase in main jet size as to completely bugger-up conventioal wisdom on the idle circuit?

Interesting indeed!
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Old 10-16-2007, 08:43 PM   #45
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Put the stock paper filter in tonight and went riding around with no right fuel tank on....

Set my needle at clip 3, IMS at 2 turns out and BINGO! F"ing perfect! 45 PFJ, 40/80/100 Air and 140/142 mains.

This is reverting me back to the same set-up I has awhile ago according to my tuning notes, but which ran like crap -- I must have f'ed something up when I put it back together that time (like a carb vent or manifold or something). Damn!

Anyway...while I was at it, I swaped Paper for DNA back to back both with Pre-filter. and did some short rides. At these settings the paper+uni combo is defintely more spot-on than the DNA+Uni combo. Very snappy throttle and good roll-on 2nd gear power wheelies. 1/8-1/4 cruise issues are resolved.

With the DNA, I'd say the bike revs out faster, but the misture still seems lean throughout the range. I think going up one step on the mains to 142/145 (in this cold weather) would prolly make this set-up rip, along with tapering back on the air to 40/80/80.

I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow...defintely a steo in the righ direction tonight!

BTW - I also drilled the slides to 2.8mm, and that may also be contirbuting to the snappy trhottle as well...Cheers!

Flanny screwed with this post 10-16-2007 at 09:08 PM
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