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Old 10-23-2007, 03:46 PM   #61
K2m
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Ok

A denser air has more oxygen in it and thus requires more fuel to bring the AFR's up....... so you are right. But it is good to clear that up for me as we do not get to ride much in altitude here so I do not get the chance to read the wideband and compare.

Good to see you are on the ball
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:49 PM   #62
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Talking Makes more sense ... or NOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by K2m
Ok

A denser air has more oxygen in it and thus requires more fuel to bring the AFR's up....... so you are right. But it is good to clear that up for me as we do not get to ride much in altitude here so I do not get the chance to read the wideband and compare.

Good to see you are on the ball
Sometimes it helps to just think of the internal combustion engine as a big air compressor.
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DISCLAIMER: All observations made in this post are mine and based solely on my own anecdotal experiences, and may contain large doses of facetiousness. YMMV, of course. You are "on your own", and I take no responsibility if someone tries anything in this post and gets into trouble with the law, damages their person or property, or goes blind. Take everything you read or hear "anywhere" butt especially on the Web with a large dose of salt.

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Old 10-23-2007, 04:28 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmodem
Sometimes it helps to just think of the internal combustion engine as a big air compressor.

This weekend I should be able to go riding around with only the left tank on...

What I plan to do is very small adjustments, one at a time.
1) Lean out the air side with 40/90/100...If that isn't enough...
2) Bring the fuel screws in by a 1/4 turn...If that isn't enough...
3) Bring the fuel screws in by another 1/4 turn...If that isn't enough...
4) Go to a 2 1/2 half clip on the needle
5) Check mains with throttle chop and rear spark plug to confirm. If they are good, leave them alone and go back down to the smaller carb circuits. If they are rich, drop one on the mains and go with 138, 140 (Although that seems VERY lean to me).

It's just gonna take some time!
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Old 10-23-2007, 06:36 PM   #64
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I looked further into air density and its effect on mixture. In one way I was right on less pressure leaning AFR's, but another factor which is the decrease in oxygen has a stronger effect on AFR's. There is a ratio to use where AFR's are critical such as in racing........ with an decrease in density of 12% you automatically have a decrease of pressure on your fuel so you only lean off by 5%.

So Flanny with this in mine you will not have to make large changes
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Old 10-23-2007, 06:38 PM   #65
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Bring the Flannycam this time

Don't make us come up there ...
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DISCLAIMER: All observations made in this post are mine and based solely on my own anecdotal experiences, and may contain large doses of facetiousness. YMMV, of course. You are "on your own", and I take no responsibility if someone tries anything in this post and gets into trouble with the law, damages their person or property, or goes blind. Take everything you read or hear "anywhere" butt especially on the Web with a large dose of salt.

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Old 10-30-2007, 08:31 AM   #66
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Hey everyone,
I have been doing a little cleaning up and additions to the spreadsheet.

If there was no data entered then I made the assumption that it was as stock and entered that data. I also removed any non numerics as this messes up the graphing functions.


The only thing that I can not baseline is the elevations of bikes listed. If you can take the time to check to see if you elevation is entered and if not make one an entry, that would be great. It does not have to be perfect. I have used my garage elevation as my listing.

Cheers,
Ken
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:33 AM   #67
mgorman
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Where is there a good source for the 45 pilots? 3 dealers and KTM have told me they are not available.
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Old 10-30-2007, 01:44 PM   #68
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http://www.sudco.com/

These guys are all about carbs and parts.
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Old 10-30-2007, 05:03 PM   #69
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supplier

you can get them from me

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247378

I also will do non package sales also

not sure if I am breaking the rules by cross linking, if so please nuke, or I will nuke if found to be rule breaking.

Ken
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Old 11-10-2007, 03:10 PM   #70
Flanny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanny
This weekend I should be able to go riding around with only the left tank on...

What I plan to do is very small adjustments, one at a time.
1) Lean out the air side with 40/90/100...If that isn't enough...
2) Bring the fuel screws in by a 1/4 turn...If that isn't enough...
3) Bring the fuel screws in by another 1/4 turn...If that isn't enough...
4) Go to a 2 1/2 half clip on the needle
5) Check mains with throttle chop and rear spark plug to confirm. If they are good, leave them alone and go back down to the smaller carb circuits. If they are rich, drop one on the mains and go with 138, 140 (Although that seems VERY lean to me).

It's just gonna take some time!

So...


Here is where I wound up.

40/90/100 on the Air side of the Pilot Cicuit, 45 on the fuel side. Screws 2 1/4 out front and back.

Stock needle on the 3rd clip.

145 and 150 Mains front and rear (is getting mighty cold up here - 34 F or so, two steps up on the mains for temp correction).

The whole shebang runs quite nicely at these temps, but I'm sure it will be too rich for warmer days next spring.
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Old 05-10-2008, 07:05 AM   #71
jaydee1445
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Why the h2w over factory pro?
I've looked at his kit, but it looked like a one size fits all and must use the pre filter. His is $85 and the factory pro ti kit is $99. Is the factory pro just mains? I ordered one for Coltgovt's 06 S.

I just set finished setting the Floats to 3mm needles to 3and mixture screws to 1.5 f 1.75 rear with 160f and 165r mains the rest of jets and airbox stock. I'm @ 0 feet here in Flatistian.
Same settings as flame rider.Seems to be much smoother and stronger especially in the mid range.
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Old 05-10-2008, 08:04 AM   #72
wsmc99
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One small tweak

FYI

The setup on my bike was good, but just a bit lean.
I was prepping to sell it and put the stock pipes on it and it seems just right!

My buddy bought my pipes and wanted to do the whole jetting setup, so I had him get 142/145 vs. 140/142. Voila! Perfect! Idle was dead stable all other settings are the same.
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Old 05-10-2008, 08:23 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee1445
Why the h2w over factory pro?
I've looked at his kit, but it looked like a one size fits all and must use the pre filter. His is $85 and the factory pro ti kit is $99. Is the factory pro just mains? I ordered one for Coltgovt's 06 S.

I just set finished setting the Floats to 3mm needles to 3and mixture screws to 1.5 f 1.75 rear with 160f and 165r mains the rest of jets and airbox stock. I'm @ 0 feet here in Flatistian.
Same settings as flame rider.Seems to be much smoother and stronger especially in the mid range.
The appearance of one size fits all is not completely true. I select jets and make recommendations based upon the elevation of the garage of the bike. Typically 0-2000, 2000-4000 then 4000 and beyond all get different jets. There are a couple of other tweaks that I do also. The value in the solution is detailed installation instructions, specific jet and settings for each bike and personal install support if necessary.

The Factory Pro kit comes with a bunch of main jets (you get to figure out which ones to use, but they do offer some suggestions), a pair of pilot jets, Ti needles and a few other things. The problem is that without a couple tweaks that do not come in the kit it will work "OK". Typically most report poor fuel economy. The FP kit will still run with a Prefilter but it will be WAY rich in the middle (function of the needle and a couple other things, but mostly needle related) The install instructions are sparse so if you have never done this kind of work before then you better take it to someone who has. If you want to do a non prefitler solution then the FP needle will work, but there are other things that need to be done to solve some of the other issues that are not detailed much of anywhere.

My opinion:

The FP kit can be made to work and there are a bunch of them installed out there. It requires specific development for each installation.

The package of jets combined with the prefilter that I have put together works very well as a install and run solution. Most anyone with the ability to follow instructions and spin wrenches can do it.
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Old 05-10-2008, 10:23 PM   #74
jaydee1445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Head2Wind
The appearance of one size fits all is not completely true. I select jets and make recommendations based upon the elevation of the garage of the bike. Typically 0-2000, 2000-4000 then 4000 and beyond all get different jets. There are a couple of other tweaks that I do also. The value in the solution is detailed installation instructions, specific jet and settings for each bike and personal install support if necessary.
Sounds cool! A custom kit sounds like just the ticket for most. Support is worth the entry fee.
Saying your kit works with only the pre filter is where I get the one size fits all. What if I want to keep the stock air box set up. If I'm not restricting the air flow do I really to open up the IAJ? The matrix shows only Uni users upping the IAJ.
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Old 05-11-2008, 09:59 PM   #75
Head2Wind OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee1445
Sounds cool! A custom kit sounds like just the ticket for most. Support is worth the entry fee.
Saying your kit works with only the pre filter is where I get the one size fits all. What if I want to keep the stock air box set up. If I'm not restricting the air flow do I really to open up the IAJ? The matrix shows only Uni users upping the IAJ.
W/O a prefilter it is true that with the stock needle and the stock pilot jet that increasing the idle air would be a bad thing for sea level to 4k.
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