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Old 05-22-2008, 09:04 PM   #76
Just Bob
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Sorry to threadjack, but since all the tuning gurus are here and I've been following this thread getting ready to tune... I pulled the carbs for the first time today doing the SAS and canectomy and found flakey white deposits on the rear carb butterfly and a holed boot. Since I just had the 600m service done, should I talk to the shop? The boot seemed to seal okay (reinstalled with hi-temp silicone brake grease) and I didn't notice any difference in performance after the service. Or... is the rear just running real lean. I'm at 5000 feet ASL, Leo Vince pipes with rear db killers and about 900 miles on the bike. Also, for the carb vents I left them in the "Y" and ran out a 5" tail out the airbox, figuring that was about the length of the through vent on the discarded evap valve. Is that kosher?

Thanks in advance. I'm learning a lot from these discussions and links.

This is both carbs, bottom view - rear carb on top in pic;


Close up pic - undersid of rear butterfly;



Here is a pic of the rear boot showing a tear in the manifold seal ring - top of pic;




Outside view of seal showing penetration of tear - almost seems like a manu. defect.;



thanks guys...
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Old 05-22-2008, 09:50 PM   #77
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Wink Maybe we should have a thread just for this subject.

The damaged boot looks like the clamp was improperly positioned at one time. Additionally, it appears to have been overtightened. The tear is a common result of forcing the boots onto the manifolds while attached to the carbs. The manifold-side clamp was probably not loosened enough either.
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:01 AM   #78
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SNIP>>>>>I pulled the carbs for the first time today doing the SAS and canectomy and found flakey white deposits on the rear carb butterfly and a holed boot. Since I just had the 600m service done, should I talk to the shop?<<<<

I would be going to them to replace that manifold boot. That is not a defect of manufacture it is the result of poor workmanship.


The boot seemed to seal okay (reinstalled with hi-temp silicone brake grease)<<<

ditch the grease. I assemble with no lube, clean/dry manifolds. CP and I have different opinions on lubing the manifolds, but silicone grease will not disipate and therefore will continue to be present increasing the odds of the carbs coming off the manifolds.

SNIP>>>>and I didn't notice any difference in performance after the service. Or... is the rear just running real lean. I'm at 5000 feet ASL, Leo Vince pipes with rear db killers and about 900 miles on the bike.<<<


SNIP>>>>Also, for the carb vents I left them in the "Y" and ran out a 5" tail out the airbox, figuring that was about the length of the through vent on the discarded evap valve. Is that kosher?<<

the carbs are very vent sensitive. My usual solution includes ditching the Y and creating two separate vent tubes, one is 275mm for the front carb and one is 250mm for the rear, both pass down through the lower air box and terminate in the root of the V of the engine.


also, as CP pointed out, the manifolds go onto the engine, (ensure that the little "tangs" that retain the upper clamps are "clocked" properly to position/retain the upper clamps so you can get onto them to tighten them after the carbs are installed/inserted), clamped to the engine, THEN the carbs go onto the manifolds, front first then with a firm forward/down pressure the rear carb will go in. Make sure that the upper clamps are almost completely unscrewed/loose PRIOR to attempting to reinstall the carbs.

another thing to note: early bikes do not have clamp limiters and therefore can cause damage by being over tightened. The later models, I believe 05 or 05.5 and later have limiters on the clamps. I run the clamps all the way to the limiters on the later models for both upper and lower clamps. The early models is a "by feel" torque setting for the uppers as you can not see them. All that over tightening will do is distort the clamp then potentially sheer/rip the manifolds
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Head2Wind screwed with this post 05-23-2008 at 10:13 AM
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:06 AM   #79
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I don't recommend silicone grease. Silicone spray is sometimes useful in certain applications and dissipates into the rubber. I don't use any lube on the LC8 carb boots, as described in the step-by-step I posted earlier.
Just sayin'
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:18 AM   #80
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OK, thanks for the clarity... and I know you would not use or suggest to use silly cone greeze
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:22 AM   #81
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:51 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Bob
Sorry to threadjack, but since all the tuning gurus are here and I've been following this thread getting ready to tune... I pulled the carbs for the first time today doing the SAS and canectomy and found flakey white deposits on the rear carb butterfly and a holed boot. Since I just had the 600m service done, should I talk to the shop? The boot seemed to seal okay (reinstalled with hi-temp silicone brake grease) and I didn't notice any difference in performance after the service. Or... is the rear just running real lean. I'm at 5000 feet ASL, Leo Vince pipes with rear db killers and about 900 miles on the bike. Also, for the carb vents I left them in the "Y" and ran out a 5" tail out the airbox, figuring that was about the length of the through vent on the discarded evap valve. Is that kosher?

Thanks in advance. I'm learning a lot from these discussions and links.

This is both carbs, bottom view - rear carb on top in pic;


Close up pic - undersid of rear butterfly;



manu. defect.;



thanks guys...
That's exactly how my carb butterflies looked too. Someone here mentioned it could be cleaning deposit KTM used to clean out the gastanks before assembly. Anyone else have other ideas?
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Old 05-23-2008, 02:37 PM   #83
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Post test ride update... The sun finally came out and I gave it a good run this morning. Eureka! The over run popping is 98% gone! The big question - is the popping gone because I restored the seal on the rear boot or because I removed the SAS? My thinking is the former, as I don't think the burbling was as bad before the servicing, but hard to tell because after I put the Leo Vince pipes on last week it was OMFG LOUD and it amplified the situation, moreover, the SAS would not have caused only the rear to be leaned way out.

I have a real concern that in the 300 or so miles put on since the service I may have damaged / singed the rear valves. I'm pretty darn sure the deposits and over run popping were the result of running way lean from an air leak in the damaged boot. My intention now is to hit the dealer / shop and ask for an at-cost extended warranty - to cover me AND them. Along with a replacement boot that I'll be installing myself, thank you very much.

As far as my tune goes, it seems spot on. My thinking is that the combination of thinner 5000' ASL air and the Leo pipes has richened it up enough to correct for the factory lean / smog happy stock condition. We'll see. It was cool and moist this morning. Real test will be when it hots up (if ever, damnit).

I really appreciate the input here. I'll ask the wife if she wants to use the rest of the silicone grease...
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Old 05-23-2008, 07:32 PM   #84
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quick question.

how much for the pre-filter/jet kit?
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:17 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIsixfitty
quick question.

how much for the pre-filter/jet kit?

Better question is when you can get them BACKORDERED!
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:41 PM   #86
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thanks to the info I got here
I am real happy with
FMF Qs / SAS, canister gone / vent hoses separated to the middle by the starter / 3mm on the floats/ gas caps tabs clipped/ facet 40171 fuel pump/inline filter

45 pilot/ 2 turns (started at 1-3/4)/ 70 IAJ/ 3rd clip/ 155-160 mains
'04 adv, sea level to 5,000 ft

needs choke to start when cold (as it should) ,
starts easy when hot
idles smooth,(1300rpm)
rapid off idle blip response
wheelies in second from 3,500+ rpm,
no surging at freeway speeds
great power in all rpms and speeds, no flat spots or stumbles
Holds 100+ mph well, without excess heat at the muffler tip
decels fast with no popping

couldn't ask for more .....(except maybe a sudco FCR 39 kit)
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:04 PM   #87
Gumbydave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knutte-bor-i-amerika
That's exactly how my carb butterflies looked too. Someone here mentioned it could be cleaning deposit KTM used to clean out the gastanks before assembly. Anyone else have other ideas?
could it be improper valve clearance causing combustion leakout into the intake on valve overlap ?
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:12 PM   #88
Just Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbydave
could it be improper valve clearance causing combustion leakout into the intake on valve overlap ?
That would be ironic as it just had its 1k service and valve check, where they told me everything was in spec and likely caused this problem by tearing the boot. It looks like ash to me - dry, lean and burnt.
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Old 05-24-2008, 06:46 AM   #89
WIsixfitty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sito
Better question is when you can get them BACKORDERED!
I noticed that at the site. I also could not find any prices which is why I asked here.

Price not needed anymore as I found a kit elsewhere.
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Old 05-24-2008, 11:22 AM   #90
Gumbydave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Bob
That would be ironic as it just had its 1k service and valve check, where they told me everything was in spec and likely caused this problem by tearing the boot. It looks like ash to me - dry, lean and burnt.
I wonder how many dealers just say "yep der good" and charge for a valve adjustment/check because it requires removing the cams, doing math and ordering a hi $ valve shim kit
not trying to start anything
just throwing it out there .........not even sure its valve related smegma on that butterfly [/tin foil hat]
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